Okay Scot show up at Jeff's with $25,000 and you can own a piece of history!:kiss:

Hahahaha! No way dude. Jeff isnt parting with The Reel Macoy for anything less than 58,500.00 !! That thing is going to be an endangered species soon!:lolhit:

Blahh blahh blahh blahh blahh and blahh blahh blahh blahhh

Honestly guys, they can't even be compared. I would agree that the older Bmax drives were nothing to write home about, but the newer Bmax's (HT) are WAY stronger than any factory based bravo. The shafts are larger and the top gear (the biggest weak spot in the factory bravo units) is massive in comparison to the factory parts. Not only than, but they are now using treated material for increased strength.

As mentioned, the lower is basically a factory bravo based lower, so there's no gain there. But as I understand it, John has come up with an improvement there as well.

http://www.bravoshop.net/BMax_Drives.html
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/d...966-b-max.html


Regardless, I agree with Pat, I'd much rather have a 6, Arneson, or BPM, etc., but if you're stuck with bravo junk, the newer Bmax is way stronger than a factory XR!

Just my worthless 2 cents...

It just never ends... :drink:

Well all good links Scot, and everyone on here seems to be MORE than happy with the new BMAX drive. The question is, can you upgrade the old BMAX drive? Is it crazy expensive? Is the boat your lookin at equiped with the old BMAX or the new style?

No, and it prolly never will! :lolhit:

I dont know if the old ones can be updated, my GUESS would be probably not... but someone whould have to ask. The drives on that AT are the new style.

Hes a child scot!:eek:

A flower child of the 70's

STUDIO 54 BABY!:drink:

He'll be tripping, smokin and have flowers painted all over it in no time.:eek:

I think the internals of the Bmax can be updated. Esp the lowers.

I dont understand this but I am also under the impression that the gear lube they are using is way better than anything else and will extend the life of any drive very significantly.

Scot have you had any Bravo failures? I have never had one and I am fairly hard on my stuff. Don't get me wrong #6 drives are #6 drives but the prop price alone is crazy let alone the drive or repair. Dan you and your dad have been running Bravo's on your last couple of boats did you guys have lots of failures? Kevin you had Bravo 1's on your heavy blower motor Bullet any drive failures? In my XR's on the Tiger the have the Imco gear set and one lasted 420 hours and the other was still together when I sent it out to be redone. I think if you can buy a boat with 6's happy day until they break. Scot your cat has been sitting with a broken power head what would happen if you blew a #6 drive?:kiss: Sorry nobody is safe on here.... Now go buy a boat I heard Jeff's real number $24,999 cash and no pesky out drives and fresh lowers:evilb:

Lowers are Fresh! ill have them thursday
-Mike

Well, never a bravo 1 failure here, and Ive had at least 5 boats with them. My Carrera was almost 700 HP and no problems for 3 full seasons now. Cigarette took a good beating and no Bravo 1 issues. I dont know, some people blow them up all the time, and they live a long time for others. I guess with big power they are not gonna live long, but with moderate power and a good driver, you can make them last. If Scot plans on flyin his new boat through the air without thottling it in and out of waves, or buying a 700+ HP a side boat, he'll need a more forgiving drive.

Heck, Sick stinger is gonna have 750+ HP with TRS drives! Why are we yelling at Scot???

I've always avoided bravos like the plague! I've just seen way to many failures for me to be comfortable buying a product that is known to fail under any significant stress.

Your points regarding the cost to repair 6's are well taken, then again, it's a totally different league. You simply cant run a bravo boat like you can a boat with 6's. The piece of mind alone to me is worth the occasional addition cost when it comes time for prop replacement or rebuilds.

Add much power (>600 hp), a larger boat, time, get the boat out of the water, a heavy hand, etc and bravos simply wont last. I dont think it's even questionable. The frequent failures are very, very well documented.

I'm not sure how well your examples demonstrate the great reliability of these (disposable) drives. Kevin had his 31 (not a large boat) with those blower motors all of what, one season? How long did your drives in your 35 sit behind your upgraded power, about the same? Dan's dad's boats were both light and under <35'... and had 500's correct?

Your 'new' 42 will eat a drive or two if pushed, especially if you bump the power up to 725 for next season and get it out of the water. The guys that owned your boat before certainly didn't push it. In fact I only recall them ever just cruising around in it (and it shows in its excellent condition). But I think you made a really good call redoing both drives before the start of this season...

If you want to just cruise with the boat, I agree they will hold up just fine and are very cost effective. If you want to go out and hammer around in a 38'+ boat with anything more than some 525's, you better have a spare or two kicking around becasue you're going to eat a upper gear in time. Then again, I know you're okay with the idea of buying a $5k-$10k drive every year or two, so that works for you.

40'+ boats with 700's+ are going to eat bravos pretty quick if pushed. I agree 6's are expensive to fix, but they hold up much better, have way better resale, offer peace of mind, and throw a cool rooster tail to boot! :drink:


I'm not saying bravos are all bad, I'm just saying I personally would prefer to not get into a 37'+ boat with over 600 hp knowing I'm going to have some fun with it and end up needing to buy a drive every year or two...

BTW, the powerhead on the cat was popped and repaired within a month... I just lost interest in the boat and haven't bothered bolting the new one on since. Popping a $5k+ drive every season or two would likely dishearten me over time too. ;)

Again, what size boats and with what power. Larger boat, larger power, and bring it out of the water = short life with bravos!

TRS drives are more rugged than the bravos. Also easy to swap over to SSM if needed (I believe the gimble is the same as the V?)

Hopefull the new parts will help the lowers live... the lowers on the 300's are yet another steller Merc design. :(

Im not saying your wrong for wanting a better HP drive than a Bravo here Scot with one t, but help me understand something...Franks Cafe weighed 10,000+ lbs. 550 HP for 2 seasons. He owned it with 500 HP for 6 seasons before that. The boat was 4500 to 5500 RPM 75% of the time he owned it. The boat went in and out of 3 to 5 footers every year, everytime it went out. Not saying it was abused, but it was driven HARD and put away flushed and towel dried :). All Im saying is he owned it for 7-8 yrs without a Bravo problem....ever! How can you not appriciate that? Do you think Frank just got lucky? Or just a better driver than most ?...............................Im not afraid of Bravos .

Just saw the Psunami boat for sale listed by Outerlimits. Dan, did you guys trade the Sutphen in twards the OL? Someone should snatch that boat up! Nice boat for Jeff when he grows up!:party-smiley-004: Sorry Jeff, Ive been really tough on you lately!! :angry-smiley-038:

TRs are stronger than bravos and give up some power.


3.0 lower sportys are a good design executed badly.LOL
sadly enough they have had 2 decades to perfect the design and never gave a crap.LOL

Kev you dont bother me any, it just allows me to point out the finer points of studio 54 More often!

theres plenty of fine points there too!

I certainly agree that the driver can make a big difference. Getting out of the throttle when catching some air makes a big difference.

Boat weight and size obviously makes a difference. I would guess both your new boat and Franks new boat weigh a lot more than his old café' (wet), despite whatever the factory specs might say.

Supercharged engines also make more torque and are more apt to damage drives for this reason. The general rule of thumb I've historically seen is 600+ hp and bravos start to have more frequent issues. Both of you have more power than this on tap now.

Also, the older gears in the Bravos seemed to hold up better. I dont know what has changed, but the newer ones dont seem to have the same track record. Something changed about 5 years ago. There's a fair amount of evidence on this in the drive section. It sounds like Frank's would have had the older gears based on the timeline above.

Regardless, Frank obviously had a good run with his old drives... and I think a lot of it has to do with all of the above.

Keep in mind we are all stepping up in size and power. All things being equal, I dont think a new set of bravos would fair as well under the same abuse with either of your new boats. Although I hope I'm wrong! :)


Look at it another way, would you be afraid of Bravos if you went through one or two this year, or were one of the guys that has already went through a few? I know I would be after blowing an Imco or two!


BTW, I'm not a complete Bravo hater, I would just prefer to avoid them if possible with my next step up. ;)

Sadly, Merc seems to have a little history in this regard. :(

agreed!

My favorite line in this whole thread " we are all stepping up to bigger power" I know a purchase is only days away!

You know too much then! :drink:

Seriously, my point was a lot of us are moving up in a big way this season, kind of hard to compare the old setups/experiences with the new. :)

Time to saddle up and run with the big dogs....:coolcowboy:

Isn't that always what happens in the off-season?

Always bigger power, more boost, new setups.

Hope everyone has a great season this year trouble/problem free!

I agree with the "new Bravo" point Scot. They definately seem weaker, or the factory is just making more power!! I wouldnt put it past Mercury to put a "weak link" in their Bravo drives now-a-days. They definatley are not building much of a fan base these days. Anyways......at least we arent running outboards!! Jeff, you can pick at Studio54 all you want! I bought it because I couldnt afford 60K for yours :)

This post is exciting! Bigger, better, faster..........its the American way!

All I have to say is look at your avatar! That is a work of art and it sounds like a symphony, outboards are not for me(not bashing as I am a 2 stroke fan) INMO they belong on Bass Trackers not offshore boats. You can not compare the sound either or the torque. Now I want to see if I woke Sammy with this post.

Scot no interest in this boat???
http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o38651-en.html

http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o38348-en.html

Another price drop....Nice boat!

WOW another CIG your pushing hard to beleive really!

Ask scot I have shwoed him all kinds of boats including but not limited to CIGS!

How many SUTPHENS have you forwarded to him?

I guess It just show I am the BIGGER man!:evilb:

I like that boat scotty boy! I think the black needs to be painted red then it would be spectacular could use some fuel injection too! NEW BOAT, OLD TECH! :drink:

Like putting cragars on a supra , Just sayin!

I love that tiger. It's no coincidence that every vehicle i've ever had is black or black/silver.

I have suggested the newer 40fter that was for sale, and also recommended the all white 35 in the classifieds. Did I not Scot? I told you, I really like Sutphens, but your ruining them for me! STOP PREACHING SUTPHEN or you will turn off a perspective buyer here! My god! Reading some of your posts in the Sutphen threads, you really sound like you want to blow everyone in the Sutphen community....you might be a homo. :kiss::kiss::kiss:

I agree, some compitition for Frank! Did you get the interior in yet? any pics? Oh, how about the blowers you were lookin at? Any engine updates???

Had to move and build about 150' of rock wall so I could park the boat right next to my garage for easy access. Jut finished that and started the interior, the G-Floor has been breaking my balls. It's all fitted now, but i've been waiting to glue it down cuz it's been ****ty and cold and damp in there. I'll post some pics once I make some progress.

Nothing going on with the motors, i'm maxed out on projects (and money) at the moment. It's always in the back of my mind though!

Cool, well, Ill keep an eye out for good deals on blowers for ya. Tomorrow supposed to be 65 and sunny!

Yeah we may be on the river in a SUTPHEN!LOL


Kev is a prospective SUTPHEN buyer did I JUST HEAR THAT RIGHT! Now what do I do, whos stones will I break, WTF the CIG army has lost its drone in enemy territory!:evilb:

Apparently the prediction of the brain washing wearing off may yet come true!

I feel I have to bring sutphen to the forefront on the forums because, they have always let the boats speak for themselves! and you CIG ARMY boys are alwasy dogging everything else.

Who the Sh it are you kidding your a cig cheerleader/ BLOWER and you dont even own one, and your pulling my chain!

I wouldnt offend Gay people by calling you a HOMO, They take pride in who they are!:eek:

I have yet to hear you say how good excaliburs are on here. That studio 54 is a damn nice boat!

Give your excalibur brothers some 70's love my brother!:kiss:

I may never buy another boat, just to make sure you guys keep this up! :drink:

Oh well keep it up but well INCLUDE YOU!