Rule change?
 

This might start a fire storm but here we go. I think the rule that if you break down you still will place ahead of the boats that break out needs to be changed. first of all you need to finish to place the way the rule is now if you do 1 lap pull off and i break out you will place ahead of me we are here to race not play the breakout odds. Smitty and i have talked about it what do you guys think lets here what you think.:evilb:

I disagree.

Lets here it sound off.

Gary, I am with you on this one!!!

I third the motion

I brought this up 3 years ago and was shot down.

I never understood why it would be setup so someone who doesnt go the distance can finish ahead of teams that do. You have to finish to win??? hmm doesnt seem to apply here.

Only thought is to cutdown on the breakouts but I think its proven itself that it doesnt work and just confuses the issue. If you break your out. Simple.

The "Break Out" is the ultimate penalty-last place points for showing up, racing, but NOT staying within the brackett.
In Gary's scenerio, a boat may have done one lap without breaking out, and than breaks down-but places ahead of a boat that goes the distance-but breaks out. How would you score someone who didn't breakout, but broke 100 yards before the finishline? If you look at other forms of racing-breakout =disqualification!! In my opinion-leave it the way it is...

Bob,

You make some very valid points, however, in all forms of racing, you cant win it, if you cant finish it.

If it is changed, you could win even if you breakout. May be in the rule you have to say in order to "win" you must finish and not break out.

Heres a possible compromise, with Frank getting the exact numbers down to the decimal, if this scenario rears its ugly head which it will as it did in Harrison and Solomons(that is 2 that I am aware of) put a break out limit on it, then revert it back to the broken down boat if the break out goes over that amount.

ie(using class 4 as example) I break down and Steve Adams wins but has a break out on his tattletale, if he broke out over 85.5 then the win goes to me, if under 85.5 he gets the win

Two things -

First off it is to remain the way it is I like your "disqualification" terminology. Spells it out more clearly than how it is now.

Curious, what other forms use brackets? only thing I can think of is drag racing. Been a few year since I was with a Pro Comp team but I have to guess that someone broke-out still would win the race over someone who broke and could not make the finishline. maybe I'm wrong?


Guess we have to ask ourselves what's worse - winning and not finishing or winning and breaking out? To me it seems going the distance is requirement #1 for others its not breaking out, even if you break in the first 10feet.

Keep in mind this comes from someone who broke on lap one, turn one, day one at Worlds - no way would I expect to finish ahead of someone who broke out. But I did.

I understand your point, but I disagree. Essentially, breaking out is cheating. You should be disqualified. Therefore, anyone else that is not disqualified, no matter how many laps they ran, should be ahead of a break out boat.

Rich
Joker Powerboats 611

To place you must finish.. simple enough.

If you finish 2nd out of 5 and only 3 boats were running at the end than your found to have broken out your disqualified and sent to last of THE FINISHING BOATS. so 3rd.

If you finish 1st out of 6 and 5 boats finish and break out, your 5th..

Break-Out and your sent to last of the boats that finished.

This was already the case in Harrison for Class 5. Specialized broke, the rest of the class broke-out, Specialized took 1st.

And happened in Solomons for Class 4, Chiro One broke, Formula & Time Bandit broke-out, Chiro took 1st place

Being that this has already occurred more than once this past season, I do agree that is should be addressed in some sort of manner.

+1

Yeah, don't break out.

Rich 611

no . . . to race you must first follow the rules . . . . superseding the above comment. :cool:





man . . . its winter all over OSO :D

Change the Rule.. :drink:

We have had this happen to us both ways. We didnt finish last year in St Clair heck we really didnt even start and took a 3rd place. This year we broke out in Harrison and Specialized took the win? SO i guess whats good for the goose? Seems like its fair if it happens to you in both casses?

Mike O

Dee, I think you read my post wrong. Currently you are last no matter what else happens. Perhaps it should be in order to get either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd points, you must finish all the laps and not breakout. If they change it, you could win even if you broke out.

I have to agree with the current rule. If you breakout you are cheating in a sense since you should be in the faster class to start.

Someone start a poll. what takes precedence: going the distance or staying under the bracket? Answer that and you have your answer.

Personally I see both sides but still say: going the distance.

Going to be a looonnnnggg winter for sure :drink:

breaking out you have control over (build a boat for the class not a 90 mph class six boat)

breaking down you do not have control over.

\Breaking down sucks especialy on the last lap winning a race.

Agreed.

Been there, Patchogue 09 maybe a quarter mile from the finish line. . . . . . ouch!. . . . but thats racing. Broke a fuel line and filled the bilge with blue 114, could'a been worse in retrospect :D.

Sure but should you potentially win a race you never finished either?

Just always seems weird trying to explain to people why a boat that never finished ends up ahead of those that did. Just seems backwards.

Again if it stays the way it is I like the disqualified terminology better. Disqualified trumps all.

OK, I do understand all sides. But if breaking out is thus condsidered a DQ, this can open the door to still get 1st place points.

Example: There are only 3 boats runningin the class that race day and all 3 boats breakout .... should if be in fairness that 1 of those boats get 1st place points.

I understand there is a fine line in making this decision, but is this fair now to teams running that have not broken out?

Lets look at this another way car bracket racing my super gas car that will run 8.90 but on throttle stop i run 9.90 if i red light lm done if i brake on the line im done if i run 9.89 but the other car runs 9.85 he broke out more than me i win these simple rules will keep everything fair .Also my boat as a example will run far beyond 70 mph limit when its proped big so even with a small wheel its possible to break out so are we cheating? I dont think so i just made a boat that gets from 45 to 70 in a hurry to win at this type of racing thats one of the key elements . (but you have to be racing at the checker flag to be winner not drifting or on a tow rope)

First place no breakout
Second place next boat behind first place boat with either no breakout lowest breakout.
The rest of the class follows suit right down to the break down boats from who broke down first to last.
Again i will use us as a example in orange beach we lead from start to finish in the first race only to blow a coupler as they were waving the checker flag at us we got last place or really third place because sb racing ran the bat boat over no crying here we broke were done.

If you break out, you have exceeded the maximum speed stated in the rulebook, therefore, you are cheating. Not in the sense of an intentional rule infraction, but nevertheless cheating. If a team can't keep their boat in the speed bracket they registered in, then they should move up or build a boat that fits the spirit of the class.

It is unfair for the teams that follow the letter of the rules and have a breakdown to finish behind a team that breaks the rules by exceeding the maximum speed of the class.

The simple solution is not to break out.

Rich
Joker Powerboats 611

[QUOTE=gary cook;3276478]Lets look at this another way car bracket racing my super gas car that will run 8.90 but on throttle stop i run 9.90 if i red light lm done if i brake on the line im done if i run 9.89 but the other car runs 9.85 he broke out more than me i win these simple rules will keep everything fair QUOTE]

What is NHRA rule on following senario:

I make it to the 60 foot and blow-up, never reaching finish line. You red light. Who is winner? Just curious.

Rich

Agreed.The way it is scored now is fair in my opinion;all boats that break out are scored behind boats than run legally even if they did not finish the race.The boat that broke out by the least is scored behind all the boats that ran legally...the more mph you break out by..the lower your finish.There is really no other way to do it.

Red light worst infraction happened first. I think ive never had that happen to me.

I say combined class 5 and 6

Is there a SINGLE boat out there not capable of running past their class speed?!

Class 6 fine you guys are what I would rule a "semi" spec class. Noone is suppose to have over 500hp. Fine. But 500hp in a 24'-26' boat in race trim should be able to run over 70 all day long. P-class is all about acceleration. To do that and do that well that means power.

350hp would probably push a 24' to 70 but how boring would that be.

Cheating is a horrible term for breaking out. Wrong setup for that day could easily result in that. Not like running an aluminum flywheel in a spec class :angry-smiley-038:

Think about it this way - who is more deserving of points the guy who broke 10ft into the race or the guy who runs all the laps???

As for who should win in certain scenerios I think the guys who break are out first (placed in the order they break), the guys who run all the laps (putting on a great show in the process) but break out finish ahead of those that broke and those that run a clean race the win.

Breakouts are place in relation to who ran a cleaner race, which will have to be somewhat defined - number of breakouts, closest to the bracket speed, etc.

Just my .02 but I like that this topic came up. OPA has a great system in place and like everything else a little tweaking once in awhile can be a good thing.

I "cheated" once last year:eek:

We know. We still dont know why...but we know :p

Why not step up to class 5? I'll spot you guys 2 feet - my 24 vs your 26 :drink:

Everybody keeps stating the rules about breaking out but nobody mentions that if you break out by more than a mile an hour you must move up to the next class.Did ya'll forget to read that part? Since I have been racing I have not seen anyone forced up to the next class. If ya break out your disqualified.Simple as that! Dont like it,dont break out. Or just move up like the rules state.

Good post Mark