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Originally Posted by tinman565
(Post 3522308)
Well...I must say that this is an interesting thread. It seems we have a boat that was mistreated, abused, and probably damaged beyond reasonable repair. The issue is not whether it CAN be brought back to life..but at what cost ? According to one enthusiastic member...."nothing is junk"..."nothing is beyond repair". That may be true, but when do you say "uncle" ? This same member asked if a core sample was taken. Well, if you go with his theory...what would the core sample matter ? Everything is fixable right ? A few people on this site actually SAW the boat...the parts...and the surroundings it was in. I'm assuming these werent the only guys that looked at this vessel...probably dozens more that we dont even know about....AND ITS STILL FOR SALE !!! That right there should speak volumes as to the condition its in. It sucks to walk away from something, but once in awhile things just hafta be let go. There are ships at the bottom of the great lakes. Been there for many, many years. I guess someone could say they are still "fixable"...but is it realistic ? No. Too much time, money, grief, and politics. Hence the phrase "just not worth it".
I would think that theres gotta be someone on this site that lives near this boat that would go on an adventure, take some GOOD pictures (lots), and maybe some video of the hull, trailer, and the parts that come with it...then post them on here. I know I would if I could. :drink: So, I'm gonna side with the guys who have actually seen the carnage...touched the boat...and smelled the mold and algea. Someone who hasnt done any of the above...has only speculation to go by. :drink: |
I have close, personal knowledge of this boat. I can say that it is indeed a project, no argument there, but it`s not nearly as bad as has been reported here.
I can say that all offers will be entertained, I have no plans to restore this boat. Sell parts ? Maybe ... At the end of the day it`s still a 28' Pantera and it`s not a lot of money. |
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Originally Posted by Donman
(Post 3522831)
At the end of the day it`s still a 28' Pantera and it`s not a lot of money.
(At the end of the day its still a BMW and its not a lot of money) YOU WANT IT ? :drink: |
If it doesn't have a core which I think has already been said that it does not, then so what if it's wet?
As I posted earlier, a bare hull on a beater trailer is worth what??? Now what if it's a 28' Pantera that there ain't many of?? Don't scare me. |
Originally Posted by tinman565
(Post 3522874)
FOR SALE: BMW...$400
(At the end of the day its still a BMW and its not a lot of money) YOU WANT IT ? :drink: Try again. |
I know this add expired but just wanted something else to compare it with. http://www.racingjunk.com/Used-Boats...hore-Race.html
Not to mention that I have also seen 2 complete running ones with 502's go for about 15K in the past 2 years. |
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Originally Posted by Donman
(Post 3523017)
Try again.
Oh, and help us all out..and tell your sister to stop playing with the camera. :drink: |
Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 3522917)
If it doesn't have a core which I think has already been said that it does not, then so what if it's wet?
As I posted earlier, a bare hull on a beater trailer is worth what??? Now what if it's a 28' Pantera that there ain't many of?? Don't scare me. |
Very true.
Originally Posted by Griff
(Post 3523218)
Transom, stringers, floor, cockpit side panels and dash are all still cored. The only thing not cored is the hull itself.
I'd look at another one if I had inside storage. You have to want the end result to make it even worth considering. I re-cored, stringer'd, painted, rigged etc a 17' Hydrostream a 100 yrs ago and said if I sold the thing for $100K, paid for my material and divided my labor into what was left I'd have made about .11c per hr ;) Similar to the 24' Sonic I just finished. Will never get that time/money out of it either but the satisfaction is going to the Miami show and not seeing anything under $120K that I would trade even for. You buy something used you never know what you're getting. In a restoration (assuming done proper) you end up w/your rigging, wiring, motors etc, etc. So you can't even accurately compare to something similar that is used. |
Originally Posted by tinman565
(Post 3523118)
This ones FREE !!! Everythings rebuildable right ? (And remember...at the end of the day, its still a female, and its not a lot of money.)
Oh, and help us all out..and tell your sister to stop playing with the camera. :drink: You better post up somthing good now to get that taste outta my mouth!!!! |
ummmmm....why.... were you licking it ????? :picard1:
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Originally Posted by stlliberator
(Post 3520773)
Lets see what Mr. Core Sample has to say back..probably not alot..cause I think he has no experience with boats, he just thinks since he pays someone to do the work he has experience...hes just like a "bench" drag racer..he can read everything in the world on the internet about how to build a 10 second drag car..but untill he gets some grease under his pretty little typing fingernails he has nooo clue..
On the other hand..88..how much is your boat anyway????? I'm just a little confused as to what in the hell you expected from going to look at a 28 Pantera with power, drives, and trailer for what was priced around 7-8K when you probably looked at it (real selling price was probably closer to 5 or 6K) If I was to go look at a 28 twin engine pantera for that price I'd be suprised if the transom and stringers didn't need to be replaced. Its expected maintenance for a boat this old and only a dreamer would expect otherwise for that price. This forum is chalked full of much newer model boats needing new transoms and stringers. Didn't realize the hull has no core, which only makes it worth more IMO. The owner is a friend of mine, thus the sympathy for IMO a worthy project. He says its not wet and his word is worth a lot more than yours. If I didn't have a beautiful 18 month old daughter and another one on the way I'd of already helped put this boat back together. These used hulls go for $10-15K in good sound condition. Sounds like you were looking for a free lunch, which most in this sport know does not exist. Its worth the price you can get it for. Feel free to argue over it some more. I'm certain the owner enjoys the free advertising.:drink: :evilb: |
i will sell mine as a bare hull for 15k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by tinman565
(Post 3522308)
I would think that theres gotta be someone on this site that lives near this boat that would go on an adventure, take some GOOD pictures (lots), and maybe some video of the hull, trailer, and the parts that come with it...then post them on here. I know I would if I could. :drink:
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Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 3523264)
You buy something used you never know what you're getting. In a restoration (assuming done proper) you end up w/your rigging, wiring, motors etc, etc. So you can't even accurately compare to something similar that is used.
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Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 3524028)
Exactly! Say it is wet. Replace the wet wood with catoosa or some other composite material and you'll never have to worry about moisture problems again. It will be better than new and much much cheaper. Or just leave the stringers in there; good treated wood can maintain its strength for a long time even if it is wet. I've seen some people just reinforce the stringers by laying or bolting stringers onto the existing ones and not tearing anything out. Adds a little more weight, but works and much cheaper than ripping the old ones out. I'm sure the naysayers wouldn't approve.:lolhit:
:eek::eek::eek:Seriously, wet wood that still has strength:eek::eek::eek: Maybe I should leave the mulch in my transon next time :eek::eek::eek:Leave them in and bolt a second set to the existing wood ones:eek::eek::eek: I have to admit I did something similar on my boat, but I glassed them in. BTW, WTF is Catoosa??? and how is it cheaper than wood??? http://coosacomposites.com/ |
Originally Posted by rchevelle71
(Post 3524040)
:eek::eek::eek:Seriously, wet wood that still has strength:eek::eek::eek: Maybe I should leave the mulch in my transon next time
:eek::eek::eek:Leave them in and bolt a second set to the existing wood ones:eek::eek::eek: I have to admit I did something similar on my boat, but I glassed them in. BTW, WTF is Catoosa??? and how is it cheaper than wood??? http://coosacomposites.com/ |
There yah go....
Originally Posted by 88bullet
(Post 3524018)
i will sell mine as a bare hull for 15k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One the floor/stringers, we're guessing at their condition. Because the boat had water in it don't mean they're toast. As to redoing one, yeah it's a long nasty job but can be made better than new easier than you think. There's nothing wrong w/wood either. Still used in most of the best race boats in the world. If you use foam stringers they're mostly a mold to wrap glass around and don't add much strength. Marine plywood on the other hand......, very difficult to beat lb for lb. Most rotten floors, transoms and stringers (assuming constructed properly) came from the boats idiot owners and not the wood. Owner mounts a new set of seats and just runs screws in the floor. Speakers in seat bases, battery box's, any accessories to/on the transom etc, etc. Most "non wood" construction claims are marketing playing to all the horror stories we've heard for the last 30 yrs. I read a really well written/researched story on this argument several yrs ago. Was targeting the bass boat industry and talked to the best of the best from both sides. These are very highly loaded, over powered, over stressed boats that get more use per season than most others. The end of the story concluded that if done right, a wooden framed/cored boats is as good as anything out there. I raised the transom on an old 1967 Whaler I used to own. The transom was wood core. I peeled the skin off and it was 100% bone dry and rock solid. Key here was that all of it's previous dozen or so owners sealed every bolt used in every re-power that was ever done to the boat. That boat was over 40 yrs old when I did that kids. |
Originally Posted by 88bullet
(Post 3524018)
i will sell mine as a bare hull for 15k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I been watchin u hunt for the perfect 28 Drive cross country to get it And a month later pimp it like a $10 wh0re Wzup?????:lolhit: |
Originally Posted by scarab63
(Post 3524129)
Does the fukkn boogie monster live below deck?
I been watchin u hunt for the perfect 28 Drive cross country to get it And a month later pimp it like a $10 wh0re Wzup?????:lolhit: i love my boat. just got done getting it ready for storage actually. its fun handles incredible. has a great paint job. starts and fires like its efi. turns all kinds of heads. get alot of "sweet boat" comments but i want to go faster. 68 with 4 big guys and a full tank is what she has in her reliably. instead of butchering it let someone else enjoy it. i found my new twin 28 pantera so mine has to go. i run with a fast crowd here in buffalo and im the slowest of my group and being a "motorhead" thats uncool lol. if it doesnt sell right now not a huge deal. im still going to buy the twin but i dont want to be a 2 pleasure boat owner for long |
Originally Posted by tinman565
(Post 3523307)
ummmmm....why.... were you licking it ????? :picard1:
Na, threw up a little bit |
Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 3524121)
I raised the transom on an old 1967 Whaler I used to own. The transom was wood core. I peeled the skin off and it was 100% bone dry and rock solid. Key here was that all of it's previous dozen or so owners sealed every bolt used in every re-power that was ever done to the boat.
That boat was over 40 yrs old when I did that kids. |
That little booger was....
Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 3525017)
Thats funny, I had same year 13 whaler I just sold, pulled the motor and cleats off the transom every thing still nice golden wood bone dry. Would like to meet you some time. Seems like we have a lot in common.
You had to do everything perfect and be able to hold your breath! We went through several band aid boats down here while I finished the Sonic restoration. One of them was a 13' Whaler. Everyone told me I couldn't make one run so I had to try. Took the 28 off that came on it, raised the transom and screwed on a 50 w/trim/tilt. Built a jack plate and beat on all the props I could find for it. Ran a best of 48.6 (GPS) and was a blast to drive. Scared the hell out of a bunch of local jet skis and center consoles. Pretty sure I could have blown it over if I tried. That little prick would haul me, the Mrs, both dogs and all our camping equip when we used it to camp on the islands in the I.C. And yeah, the pleasure would be mine. Love to see your Apache. http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ing3-09012.jpg http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ing3-09053.jpg |
c mon all that work and you only put a 50 on it lol that first pic looks like fun!
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That fly by pic is funny shat.
I want a cheap lil beater again. |
Tell yah what....., that boat at 48 was more of a hand full than this boat at a 100.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ixs/meatrr.jpg Funny story about the baby whaler, we had it in the Keys one time before the Sonic was done and had friends there w/there boats. One of them is on the dock while I'm doing fly by's and he's on his phone w/another mutual friend. I finally had enough and came in. My buddys' rollin on the ground laughing at me while still describing the action to our friend on the other end of the phone :) Sorry, I have a slight addiction. BTW, the boat was a way better boat before I hot rodded it. W/the motor that far back it only did one thing welll and it actually needed more. It picked up about 3 mph's if I drove w/my foot and hung over the motor. |
Since your all having fun laughing at me......., heres another shot i like.
I built this dinghy and towed it all over Lake Erie behind my Mairnette cruiser. It flew well but hated a following sea. It would dive for the bottom and about throw you through the windshield when it did. You'd have to stop to wait for it to bob back to the surface so you could continue. We put a 15 on that boat and knee boarded behind it. http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ixs/dinghy.jpg |
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LMAO.
You had a marinette too? Chit man we are like two pees in a pod. My family has a 1973 40ft kingscraft houseboat all aluminum I picked out for them and captain regularly. Its my winter boat. Absolutely love the apache, but its pretty much sold. With the new kido coming I can't afford to run it and keep up with the maintenance like it should be. Hoping to buy it back down the road. I'm taking an extrememly rare 21 cigarette outboard in on partial trade. Should be a neat project if it goes thru. I'm picking it up for a song and dance with no interior or motor. Has brand new transom and oversized K-planes. Sucker is heavy (around 3500lbs) and has a straight 24 degree deadrise at the transom. Its like a mini gladiator seat/center console with throttle setup. I don't know much about outboards though- maybe you can help me out there, I'll shoot you a PM. |
Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 3525558)
I don't know much about outboards though- maybe you can help me out there, I'll shoot you a PM.
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Very cool.
Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 3525558)
LMAO.
You had a marinette too? Chit man we are like two pees in a pod. My family has a 1973 40ft kingscraft houseboat all aluminum I picked out for them and captain regularly. Its my winter boat. Absolutely love the apache, but its pretty much sold. With the new kido coming I can't afford to run it and keep up with the maintenance like it should be. Hoping to buy it back down the road. I'm taking an extrememly rare 21 cigarette outboard in on partial trade. Should be a neat project if it goes thru. I'm picking it up for a song and dance with no interior or motor. Has brand new transom and oversized K-planes. Sucker is heavy (around 3500lbs) and has a straight 24 degree deadrise at the transom. Its like a mini gladiator seat/center console with throttle setup. I don't know much about outboards though- maybe you can help me out there, I'll shoot you a PM. I'd spray off the spiders w/one hand while drinking beer w/the other and un-tie and haul ass. Had worn out strut bearings though and kept spitting them out. You'd think you threw a blade. Got to where I could go over the side and have them fixed before the boat was off plane. Finally drill and tapped the struts for larger boats by taking a Makita cordless under water. Worked perfect. Neighbors, again surprised ;) Saw a 32' fly bridge sedan and it was the perfect boat. Neighbors at the harbor loved me. At the spring thaw party they all wanted to meet me and I couldn't understand why. They finally told me it was because I bought myself that boat for my divorce from my 1st wife. Said most guys do it bass ackwards. Buy the nice boat, bring up the secretary then wife takes boat. Brought up a different "friend" every weekend the first summer. They all wore bright bikinis for my neighbors enjoyment while they were on the bow as we left/returned. Fuuny, everyone was always on their back decks everytime I came/went. That was the model w/the bench seat across the front of the cabin on the bow. That boat had more places to uhm....., anyhow. 21' Cigarette O/B huh? Very cool. Have only seen one or two and that's saying something down here. I've done O/B's all my life and do all my own work. Be glad to help. Should be a hoot in about 2' rollers w/a cooler, swim suit and flip flops. If you haven't already, you can check me out at twostrokeonly.com PM me when you're ready and I'll send you a number. |
Originally Posted by rchevelle71
(Post 3525715)
What outboard were you thinking of running?
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250 Efi. great engine just love to eat fuel. They really are a reliable engine though. JMO
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Budget?
You'll need torque and cubic inches to push that weight. I'd say your right on the 300 mark. The 300 E-Tec's and Optimax's are moth monsters but will run you into the $18K range if you shop. Massive power, economy of/better than a 4 stroke, as quiet, less weight and near zero maintenance compared to the 4 stroke. I see/hear all those horror stories down here. Was at one major dealer that I buy blown up motors from when he was on the phone w/the Honda tech center which is local. Seems that they had an irate customer after being billed almost a a grand for a pair of 200's ;) If it were me, and I had the budget....., I'd do twin 250 HO E-Tec's. Would look bad ass and probably be a 90 mph weapon. |
Originally Posted by jfm
(Post 3525900)
250 Efi. great engine just love to eat fuel. They really are a reliable engine though. JMO
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Cant find the thread but sp123 had less than stellar results with a etec 250 on his new banana 24. Then tried a h.o. Etec and it still disapointed top speed wise although I recall him saying it got good economy.
Do a merc, theres plenty of em used, parts ez to get and proven results. $.02 MD |
You never know.
Originally Posted by scarab63
(Post 3526418)
Cant find the thread but sp123 had less than stellar results with a etec 250 on his new banana 24. Then tried a h.o. Etec and it still disapointed top speed wise although I recall him saying it got good economy.
Do a merc, theres plenty of em used, parts ez to get and proven results. $.02 MD Some JohnRudes run half way decent. Heres an '87 V-6 on carburetors @ 101 @ 7500. http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...treamat101.jpg This one ran 80 GPS w/stock '99 250 carb motors. http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...xs/atspeed.jpg |
Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 3526178)
Budget?
You'll need torque and cubic inches to push that weight. I'd say your right on the 300 mark. The 300 E-Tec's and Optimax's are moth monsters but will run you into the $18K range if you shop. Massive power, economy of/better than a 4 stroke, as quiet, less weight and near zero maintenance compared to the 4 stroke. I see/hear all those horror stories down here. Was at one major dealer that I buy blown up motors from when he was on the phone w/the Honda tech center which is local. Seems that they had an irate customer after being billed almost a a grand for a pair of 200's ;) If it were me, and I had the budget....., I'd do twin 250 HO E-Tec's. Would look bad ass and probably be a 90 mph weapon. |
Originally Posted by rchevelle71
(Post 3526219)
Agreed, And Shaun Torrente, or Simon can take them beyond 300HP. Super reliable, cheap intial purchase, and if a tired 250 25" fishin' motor can make my 24 run 60(hopefully more this weekend with the new prop:drink:), I am sure a healthy STR motor would put that boat into the low 70's no problem.
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Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 3526547)
Thanks, sounds like the 250 would be enough. Althought, I read the 300's weigh about the same as the 250's.......
300's wight the same because it is the same motor(kinda) Both are based off of the same block(actually most 225's are the same also), and share most parts(except EFI, ECU, heads, and a few other things). You can buy a used 250, have it rebuilt and modified by Shaun to exceeed 300 HP, and be reliable, for much less than $10,000 If you shop around, running 250's can be had for around $3000, and the rebuild/modifications should be around 3-$4000 |
Yeah I've seen a few twin packages for $6-7K, wouldn't mind having a spare. How come you don't see people running yamaha's on fast boats? Are they harder to modify?
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