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Steve Zuckerman 07-06-2010 08:29 AM


Originally Posted by Steve 1 (Post 3151873)
Sir First Off thanks you for the very nice comment. There are a lot of strategies on this, I myself control the boats attitude and try to have a minimum wetted surface using the step size and placement along with step angles these are Key here, it takes an experienced designer with a critical eye to realize their full benefits.

Remember you pay a heavy price for every square inch of wetted surface on a performance boat so why not arrange
the bottom so as faster the boat travels less it's bottom is exposed in a “predictable” manner with support, not that half a pyramid shape you get from airing out a straight Vee.

Steve,
Having worked in the industry when this transition was taking place, did you modify any existing deep vees into step vees? What improvements in performance resulted? Were there any before and after #s for a typical Powerplay for instance?
Best Regards,
Steve

Indy 07-06-2010 08:31 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Zuckerman (Post 3151998)
Steve,
Having worked in the industry when this transition was taking place, did you modify any existing deep vees into step vees? What improvements in performance resulted? Were there any before and after #s for a typical Powerplay for instance?
Best Regards,
Steve

T2x has commented on this side by side a number of times, do a search and you'll find some interesting results.

Steve 1 07-06-2010 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by sinus (Post 3151884)
Sorry, you are inside in industry and I have questions for you:

- Tuff, Velocity and Progression I am mentioned becouse of pad kell. They have no pyramid shape of wetted sufrace when go fast. What do you think round of compare with steeped bottom, if it is boat build lighter?
- every square inch of wetted surface cost a lot of performance, this is more than true! Why than boat builders do not build lighter boats? Technology for this it is known and it is not so expensive. Infusion and good core for example.
- when will boating industry start to use lighter and modern engines? Existing engines like big block... are 50 years old mastodonst, which cost lot of weight, fuell and money for service.

Sorry for bad english. I fight with words, but...



p.s.
Nice thread Steve1!


bye
Saso

Your English is just fine and thank you for the nice comment on the thread.

We know that nothing supports weight like a horizontal surface on water and a pad does exactly that and also supports the boat at the lowest point and at the point of the highest water pressure.

Steve 1 07-06-2010 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Zuckerman (Post 3151998)
Steve,
Having worked in the industry when this transition was taking place, did you modify any existing deep vees into step vees? What improvements in performance resulted? Were there any before and after #s for a typical Powerplay for instance?
Best Regards,
Steve

The Powerplay was Danny's design and from a clean sheet of paper, the hull was tested and changes were made then it was tooled.

My personal vented system is a little different than Modifying an existing boat.

The Pantera Group has good running 41 Stepped Vee

One of our local Builders Pat at AT builds a 37 with his as AVH bottom or as a straight Vee. Look at the photos of it running very nicely done a single step DDC Schoell Bottom.

Fabio Buzzi's Boats run very well with his Bottom in mountainous seas.

The Speed record is held by a step Vee and Boats from Fountain run very well.

Steve Zuckerman 07-06-2010 10:17 AM


Originally Posted by Steve 1 (Post 3152033)
The Powerplay was Danny's design and from a clean sheet of paper, the hull was tested and changes were made then it was tooled.

My personal vented system is a little different than Modifying an existing boat.

The Pantera Group has good running 41 Stepped Vee

One of our local Builders Pat at AT builds a 37 with his as AVH bottom or as a straight Vee. Look at the photos of it running very nicely done a single step DDC Schoell Bottom.

Fabio Buzzi's Boats run very well with his Bottom in mountainous seas.

The Speed record is held by a step Vee and Boats from Fountain run very well.

Thanks Steve,
Very gracious and diplomaticaly stated. We have been to the AT factory. Interesting bottom (DDC). Their performance #s are surprisingly competitive, and they seem to be good rough water boats. I have seen Fabio's boats run on TV. Not too pretty, but plenty fast. And, no doubt Fountains are fast.....
Best Regards,
Steve

Steve 1 07-06-2010 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Zuckerman (Post 3152097)
Thanks Steve,
Very gracious and diplomaticaly stated. We have been to the AT factory. Interesting bottom (DDC). Their performance #s are surprisingly competitive, and they seem to be good rough water boats. I have seen Fabio's boats run on TV. Not too pretty, but plenty fast. And, no doubt Fountains are fast.....
Best Regards,
Steve

Sir thank you for the reply and for asking.

stirling 07-06-2010 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by sinus (Post 3151925)
Easy.
Power it is "maded" from rpm and torque. If you want additionall power you need for example:

- 4.000 rpm and 400 lbft torque
- 12.000 rpm and 133 lbft torque

If you reduce 12.000 to 4.000 you have on the shaft 400 lbft torque and much better efficiency-les fuell consumption and lighter engine.
(Dodge viper do not have better acceleration than new Ferarri with same power...)

I do not know, but two valve engine in year of 2010?



p.s.
Sorry "Steve1" for this interruption of your thread, I am only want to ask few things which I would like to know.




bye
Saso

Lighter engines are on the move ,the LS GM series are very ,and I mean very light engines ,even lighter than a Ferrari engine with all its camshafts, rockers ,valves ,valvetrain components etc etc .
The GM LS is an all ali block,heads etc , and don,t worry about the 2 valves per cilinder ,the heads flow like nothing ever before !
100 hp per litre ( atmospheric ) is doable with these engines while still having a decent idling .

These engines are coming marine based ,some companies build them already ,and they will come up in the future soon.

Don,t forget ,you can,t compare a so called ,, Car engine ,, with a marine engine , low torque high rpm engines will do you no good on a boat ,unless it has multiple gears to shift the engine in its powerband where horsepower is been made ... a 500 hp Ferrari engine in a boat will barely bring the boat on plane when compare to a 500EFI marine engine ,only when the Ferrari screams at high rpm there is 500 hp coming out ,while the old big block produces its power /torque much earlier in its power band , but still also produce 500 hp ,but at a different rpm .

Btw Great thread Steve1 ,I,m following this every day, very informative , keep the pics coming !

A.J

Steve 1 07-06-2010 12:44 PM


Originally Posted by stirling (Post 3152234)
Lighter engines are on the move ,the LS GM series are very ,and I mean very light engines ,even lighter than a Ferrari engine with all its camshafts, rockers ,valves ,valvetrain components etc etc .
The GM LS is an all ali block,heads etc , and don,t worry about the 2 valves per cilinder ,the heads flow like nothing ever before !
100 hp per litre ( atmospheric ) is doable with these engines while still having a decent idling .

These engines are coming marine based ,some companies build them already ,and they will come up in the future soon.

Don,t forget ,you can,t compare a so called ,, Car engine ,, with a marine engine , low torque high rpm engines will do you no good on a boat ,unless it has multiple gears to shift the engine in its powerband where horsepower is been made ... a 500 hp Ferrari engine in a boat will barely bring the boat on plane when compare to a 500EFI marine engine ,only when the Ferrari screams at high rpm there is 500 hp coming out ,while the old big block produces its power /torque much earlier in its power band , but still also produce 500 hp ,but at a different rpm .

Btw Great thread Steve1 ,I,m following this every day, very informative , keep the pics coming !

A.J

Sir thanks for taking your time to read the thread and for the nice comments.

sinus 07-06-2010 01:00 PM

Nice!

ludo73 07-06-2010 04:55 PM

BVI powerplay 25 with 300X's
 
http://a3.vox.com/6a00fae8c7d0c8000b01347f10e2e3860b-pi
http://a2.vox.com/6a00fae8c7d0c8000b0137a5a1ab22860d-pi

Steve 1 07-06-2010 05:48 PM


ludo thanks for the great Photos.

kds 07-06-2010 09:27 PM

Wow, Thats A Very Nice Looking Powerplay.

ludo73 07-06-2010 09:50 PM

my darling

http://a0.vox.com/6a00fae8c7d0c8000b0137e10200a0860f-pi
http://a0.vox.com/6a00fae8c7d0c8000b01347f110c38860b-pi

Steve 1 07-06-2010 10:32 PM



ludo, Wild looking 25 Powerplay.

Steve 1 07-07-2010 04:39 PM

We used a heavy green tint on the early lamination and on Tooling.


http://i26.tinypic.com/2prbc09.jpg

bert4332 07-07-2010 10:06 PM

Steve just wanted to say thanx for the thread and for the time to take all the pics. I keep going back and reviewing the electrical rigging and learning how it should really be done.

This is a very inexperienced question, can you define "tooling" for me in your line of work.

thanx

Steve 1 07-07-2010 10:13 PM


Originally Posted by bert4332 (Post 3153642)
Steve just wanted to say thanx for the thread and for the time to take all the pics. I keep going back and reviewing the electrical rigging and learning how it should really be done.

This is a very inexperienced question, can you define "tooling" for me in your line of work.

thanx

Sir it is the plugs, patterns,Jigs ,molds and or "tooling" we use in molding and building the boats.Rigging Let's say Danny was very Picky about every boat done in his factory.

bert4332 07-07-2010 10:16 PM

Thanx!

sinus 07-08-2010 12:04 AM

Steve1, glass fibre on the foto subscription 1323 look quite strong. Is this only foto or it is reraly so bulletproof? Tell me please how much pounds have square meter of glass layer and how much axis? It look realy strong, great.



bye
Saso

Steve 1 07-08-2010 08:16 AM


Originally Posted by sinus (Post 3153696)
Steve1, glass fibre on the foto subscription 1323 look quite strong. Is this only foto or it is reraly so bulletproof? Tell me please how much pounds have square meter of glass layer and how much axis? It look realy strong, great.



bye
Saso

We had a good "balanced layup" on the bottom,I can't go into the lamination schedule too much further. Thanks for asking

ludo73 07-09-2010 02:27 PM

http://ludo73.vox.com/library/video/...0d18b860e.html

ludo73 07-09-2010 06:30 PM

http://a4.vox.com/6a00fae8c7d0c8000b0137a4cb89ec860c-pi

DareDevil 07-09-2010 10:33 PM

STEVE.......i'm back..lol:lolhit:
Hope everything is fine !

Steve 1 07-09-2010 11:05 PM


Originally Posted by DareDevil (Post 3155078)
STEVE.......i'm back..lol:lolhit:
Hope everything is fine !

Yes all is good, I am taking a small break from the pictures. Take Care.

damdonzi 07-10-2010 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by Steve 1 (Post 3152033)
The Powerplay was Danny's design and from a clean sheet of paper, the hull was tested and changes were made then it was tooled.

My personal vented system is a little different than Modifying an existing boat.

The Pantera Group has good running 41 Stepped Vee

One of our local Builders Pat at AT builds a 37 with his as AVH bottom or as a straight Vee. Look at the photos of it running very nicely done a single step DDC Schoell Bottom.

Fabio Buzzi's Boats run very well with his Bottom in mountainous seas.

The Speed record is held by a step Vee and Boats from Fountain run very well.

I may have missed it, but what boats today are utilizing your personal vented system mentioned above? Are you able to share your concept in comparison to others being used today from other builders? Again, fantastic thread. Thank you.

Steve 1 07-10-2010 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by damdonzi (Post 3155173)
I may have missed it, but what boats today are utilizing your personal vented system mentioned above? Are you able to share your concept in comparison to others being used today from other builders? Again, fantastic thread. Thank you.

That system was on the T-4 and was prototyped a long time ago with good results it was originally intended as a extension of my Flats boat line up into the 21-22' Bay boat area and was coupled with a method to get the outboard prop shaft up and still have water on a standard gear case without remote pickups.

There was a simple way to get the bottom running on a "Air" Film without any radical geometry changes which was the approach I chose which made a lot of things easy from handling to trailer bunk considerations.

Someone probably had the same Idea long before I did.

mccaffertee 07-10-2010 06:46 PM


Someone probably had the same Idea long before I did.
You're probably right, if you read the History Of Powerboating, I am sure you will see something very similar in there as the stepped bottom design has been around for many years.

Steve 1 07-10-2010 08:04 PM


Originally Posted by ludo73 (Post 3154863)




Beautiful Blue water down there you guys get to play in.

ludo73 07-10-2010 09:49 PM

thanks, it is the 33 powerplay with twin 300x's that u can see in post #1380!!!!
nice roostertail and run a nice 65 mph at WOT!
i hope you enjoyed

Steve 1 07-10-2010 10:15 PM


Originally Posted by ludo73 (Post 3155521)
thanks, it is the 33 powerplay with twin 300x's that u can see in post #1380!!!!
nice roostertail and run a nice 65 mph at WOT!
i hope you enjoyed

Thank you I did ,Nice place there and a lot of Powerplays .

Catmando 07-10-2010 11:49 PM


Originally Posted by ludo73 (Post 3154863)

With all that 'hop' in the boat you must have had it trimmed way up. The seas didn't look that rough...

DareDevil 07-11-2010 01:03 AM


Originally Posted by Catmando (Post 3155566)
With all that 'hop' in the boat you must have had it trimmed way up. The seas didn't look that rough...

I agree, and thats how u trip and stuff a boat !!!

Trusst me ...lol, i know ..hehehe:party-smiley-004::evilb:

ludo73 07-11-2010 09:32 AM

it wasn't that rough, but engines are very high and trimmed excessive

Steve 1 07-11-2010 06:40 PM

Powerplay 33 SD


http://i30.tinypic.com/1yr1hd.jpg

Catmando 07-11-2010 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by Steve 1 (Post 3114186)
Key West 1983 Danny ran hard this made the wide world of sports intro.




http://i47.tinypic.com/m7dt2h.jpg

Chris Cat?

Steve 1 07-11-2010 07:05 PM


Originally Posted by Catmando (Post 3155882)
Chris Cat?

Cougar Cat.

Steve 1 07-11-2010 07:10 PM

Cat here is a Shadow (which is like a Chris Cat) sitting next to the Powerplay Cougar,New Orleans 1983.


http://i29.tinypic.com/15o87l3.jpg

Catmando 07-11-2010 07:22 PM

Yeah I see the size difference now. Cougar is 35'?

Steve 1 07-11-2010 07:54 PM

@ 33 I think, those were built in the Philippines by Asia Craft they also built the second 38 which became the Arneson #6 Cat there were a few at Cougar on 188 st back in the day.

Catmando 07-11-2010 10:35 PM

Surely you're not saying Mr. Arneson had Merc drives on his boat are you?? :lolhit:


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