Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Well, you're a hoot. Thanks for the smaller boat advice. As for the dock - I already have a 12,000 Hydrohoist on the canal behind the house with 215 feet of dock. I don't tow much hence the question. If your tired of giving your opinion given your obvious vast knowledge, why not - just not?

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Thanks. An intelligent response.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

The purpose to asking a question is to hear intelligent, reponses. If you don't know, thats what you do. If you get the facts and then screw up you're a jerk. If you slam guys asking questions then you are the jerk.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Did you stop and read this nonsense before you posted it?

I'll make it simple-

If you tow with an under-rated vehicle your chances of having a serious incident grow exponentially. If you could remove all external effects such as other drivers and acts of nature, your chances might improve but since that's not going to ever happen, let's stop $hitting ourselves. No one cares about your fuel mileage or your wear and tear. We're worried that while you're daydreaming someone next to you swerves and you instinctively react. Then your mushy, undersized marshmallow truck is about to become a passenger getting tugged along by an unguided misile- the boat that's hooked to it that weighs 3 times what the truck does. Maybe you get lucky and survive the roll-over but maybe you didn't get really lucky and you killed some poor slobs wife and kid. All because having your toy pulled at the exact minute you wished it to be somewhere but couldn't "wasn't convenient". God forbid your urges can't be delayed by "someone else's schedule". You're a busy, important fellow so fuc& everyone else, right?

OK, so you lived. Now you get to hear about the millions in liability that your insurer says NO to. Then, if we're all lucky, you'll get to endure a negligent homicide trial- one at which I pray I get to be a juror at.

But hey, don't sweat it. You're not going far and you're going to be careful, right?

P.S. How hard is hard? Maybe you cellmate can clue you in on that one.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

An Analogy:

Hey guys!

I need an opinion here. I'm thinking about boning my neighbor's daughter. She's only 12 but she LOOKS older. She's real mature too. I figure she's able to decide for herself and since she's always over here talking to me, I'm guessing she's up for it. I'm not going to stick it all the way in and I plan to be gentle. I'll pull out, too. This should be OK, right?

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Yes I read it, I also wrote it. After hearing what I heard at the dealers, I thought sounded odd. So I came here to hear what knowledgable people had to say. Hence the purpose of asking a question. Thats the smart thing to do. All you are doing is ranting.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Did you already do it? Maybe we could be the cellmates you mentioned earlier.

This thread is dead, nice kill...

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Bull$hit.

This is every week in this section.

Damn near every one of these "can I" posts is filled with strong indicators that these people know what they want to do is wrong. They all have the same load of $hit.

"I know the engineers under-rate"
"Not going far"
"Going to be really careful"
"We used to do it..."


After a while, you'd think people would catch on. Funny thing is that at least half the time, they get pi$$ed when you tell them what they are doing is wrong.

Besides, how does someone attain the wealth necessary to acquire a 12,000 pound offshore boat yet lack the basic intelligence to compare it's weight against their vehicle's towing capacity without enlisting all of our help? It's pretty simple- if the one number is smaller than the other, it's OK. If it's bigger, it's not. If you have to ask which number is which.....

No, I'm sorry. These people need to be slapped.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

I think you slapped to quick here. I think you did not read what I wrote and therefore didn't get the context of my question. You were to quick to swing the hammer. I post all the time. I haven't read those threads as it's not been an issue for me ( you'd have known that if you read what I wrote ). Don't confuse how often you feel you have to say something with who is asking the question.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Also, what you said isn't slapping, it's just unhelpful anger. Give facts and explain, thats what this board is for - Inteligent discourse. You have no clue who I am, or how I think.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

And for your other comment - I got the wealth by asking questions - all questions. Especially the ones guys who only think in black and white get angry about when they hear, but really can't answer. Also, I am sure I am not the first guy to buy the boat and then the tow vehicle.... Oh, for the record I am leaning toward the 2500 GM or F250/350. But, you had nothing to do with the process.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Do you have any PICS? :D :eek:

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

You should do her! But maybe you should post this question in the bildge
Is their a contest on who can run the most people off this board?
Maybe I should ask a towing question once a month just to hear the bitc*y respone for entertainment.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Ask a stupid question...

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

I'm guessing your thought process is exhibited somewhat in your writing.

Let's dissect your post:

The setup- "It's a safe trailer- I'm REALLY a responsible guy"

Justification 1- "I'm not doing it very often"

Justification 2- "I'm not going very far..."

Justification 3- "...and I'm going to be careful"

Translation: "I really don't want to spring for what I already know I really need to properly do the job."

Translation: "My own personal convenience is more important to me than the law or the safety of others"

Translation: "I don't want the inconvenience or expense of having to own the proper truck nor do I want to have to plan ahead or wait a bit for someone to do it properly for me."

"Translation: "I did the math and came up short. I didn't like the answer though. If I ask the question enough times, maybe I'll get the answer I like, then it will all be OK"

Translation: "I know it's wrong but I want to do it anyway. I don't care if it's illegal and I don't care if I hurt someone else or incur millions of dollars in personal liability."

Translation: "And even though I know it's wrong and dangerous, I'm mostly worried about if MY STUFF is going to be affected."

Translation: "I already found one person willing to tell me what I want to hear- anyone else?"

There you have it- in your own words. That's how your post comes across.

I rant because I don't want anyone else to go through what I did. I had the pleasure of getting beat to Hell in a towing accident- only I was under the tow limit and it was someone else's fault. I still had way too little truck when the time came. I was doing everything you posted about- I was 7 miles from home, I was going 50 in a 65 zone and I had every piece of safety equipment I could possibly have. I was at 90% of my tow limit and I know now that I was an accident waiting to happen. one slip, one small, quick correction, one wheel over the berm and it's off to the races. I now have a much bigger truck.

Take your post and remove "towing". Put "driving drunk" in its place. It doesn't look too good then, does it?

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

no that was funny

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

I dont want to beat a dead horse,,, but that right there is basically the truth behind these " Can I tow such and such w/ such and such " posts.... sorry nolimits,,, u seem like u wanna do the right thing,, go ahead and do it.. :)

P.S. I have 52K miles on my F-150, I should be due for a tranny within 30K, i'm prepared for it and know it's just a matter of time and I only tow 7K...

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

That's all you had to say the first time. That was part of what I was looking to understand. Once again the INFORMATION GIVEN TO ME FROM THE DEALERS didn't add up. So I came here to see what the people in the know had to say. For that paragraph, a sincere thanks for the help.

For the rest of your stuff - It is pure smarta$$ abuse justified by what appears to be unresolved anger at someone none of us know. Your seeming inability to express yourself like most of the people out here as defined by your slamming people you don't know who simply are asking questions you should be at the head of the line to answer. Unfortunetly you have become such a zealout for a cause as to be unable to communicate without being arrogant and disrespectful. Your behavior is inappropriate and frankly you need to grow up.

Your anology on child abuse, or was it statatory rape is so out there along with drunk driving comments that you need to do a long and deep reality check. Your delivery takes away from your point and your right to judge anyone.

You made your comments and I made mine. I suggest we drop it and I will avoid you in the future and you can do the same with me. Have a good day.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

The notion that you shouldn't tow with less is what I have always thought and frankly when I have towed I have done it right.

I was looking for clarification and a seal on what I already suspected. Just wanted to be sure. I ask a lot of questions when I don't know something. I'm the guy that ends up doing it right because I did. I just hate heavey handed responses when simple truths will do. If a guy ducks the point after that, then slam him. I also hate generalizing and catorgorizing people I don't know.

By the way, I could take all the points listed and then misrepresented and restate. But what would the point be, everything can be read two different ways and if you are not really interested in communicating it's a pi$$ing contest.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it...

Signed,
Still simmering......

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

My god, you people get your panties in a wad sometimes.

I towed my 27' fountain behind my suburban all last year. The winch post was attached to the frame with two small pieces of angle iron. The boat and trailer all together probably weighs 7200 lbs. Most of the time, the rear of the boat wasn't even tied down (i asked the previous owner why not, he replied "i've towed it all over the state like that and haven't had a problem"). The tires were dry rotted. The breaks were screwed, and underrated. The truck was rated to tow 5500 lbs, the hitch was only rated for 4000 lbs weight carrying, and it was carrying the weight.

I didn't have any problems. Even when i picked it up and towed it 150 miles across the state without so much as inspecting the trailer (i did check tire pressures, though).

So to answer everybody's questions about "will it be okay if i blah blah blah", the answer is yes, probably. If your truck is rated for x lbs, it's rated to handle that at highway speeds, and can probably handle that and more at highway speeds even with a terminally crappy trailer. If you must tow more than your equipment is rated for, yes, you may have liability problems in an accident, yes, your equipment will take a beating. But if you're only going a short distance, and keep the speeds down to 45 or so, you'll most likely be fine. And if the boat's tied down to the trailer properly, i highly doubt you'll have any serious liability problems that you wouldn't have had otherwise.

Oh, and for all of you dicks who are about to berate me for my "reckless" towing habits and wish a darwin-esque death upon me, go to hell.

This year, i sold my fast car and crappy truck, and bought a truck rated to tow what i'm towing. I upgraded the hitch, put new tires on the trailer, bought new tie-downs, redid the brakes, replaced the surge brake actuator, installed a larger, over-rated winch post, and i'm even redesigning the front end of the trailer so that the winch post is mounted directly to the tongue, which i am also replacing with a larger, thicker piece. I'll probably be 2 or 3 grand into the trailer by the time i'm done. And that's more money to me than it is to a lot of you people, because i bought my boat and trailer for $30k.

Sometimes necessity and a lack of funds force us to do things that aren't necessarily 100% safe. Oh frickin' well. Just be aware and be careful, and you'll probably be fine.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

So you're saying you did everything right and it didn't help. So basically if i crash i'm screwed anyway. So why bother?

I'd like to have an F350 as a tow vehicle. But it's just not practical. Purchase costs, maintenance costs, and operating costs are just too much right now, and what i have is rated for what i'm towing and just a wee bit more. If i wreck, i'm probabl still screwed. Oh well. **** happens.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Good point.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

We get our panties in a wad because we've seen enough of this reckless behavior. We get our panties in a wad because people like you give responsible boaters a bad name. We get our panties in a wad because your own self-admitted actions jeopardize our friends and families.

What you described of your own behavior is wanton recklesness and a total disregard for yourself and others around you. I can't even imagine you'd come on here and post this and expect anyone to not respond to you... Rotten tires? No tie-downs? Underrated hitch? Bad trailer brakes? Then the obligatory "go slow, be careful crap"? Do you have small children that you allow to play with loaded guns because "they'll probably be OK"?

Oh, yeah- you blew yor wad on the boat so now you can't afford to tow it properly. Did it cross your mind to buy a little less boat? No, that wouldn't have helped- you can't even muster the motivation to toss a $30 strap across the transom.

And we're the dicks?

How does that expression go? "God watches over fools and small children".

But hey, we have to throw you a bone- you did check to see if there was air in the tires.

It sounds to me like you wasted a bunch of money on your truck upgrade- you were getting along just fine, weren't you?

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

I'm saying that had I been towing the boat with the Freightliner I have now instead of the F-450, it wouldn't have happened. Pulling a 10K boat with a dually pickup is fine for around town but not on the highway. It will pull the boat in a straight line and it will stop the boat in a straight line. A pickup doesn't have the mass or the stability to bring an out-of-control trailer back into control.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Translation: You wish that death befalls these people and their families in a horrible, firey inferno. Nice.

Translation: Towing over the limit is akin to raping your 12 year old neighbor. That's fukked up.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

But alas, the Federal DOT and the top 3 auto manufacturers will disagree with you. They must all be wrong, because Chris doesn't see it that way.

Translation: Every boat owner needs to buy a semi-truck to safely control their trailers because most roads aren't straight.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

:cool: I kind of thought we were supposed to be friends here.Instead we've got name calling,*****ing,and some very angry hateful posts.I'm surprised more of these threads aren't getting poofed.All things aren't perfect,people have budgets they have to abide by,just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you have to verbal and belittle them,this sport and this board are supposed to be fun let's get back to it.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Drama for effect.


Purely an analogy to exhibit that the act of doing something wrong is never mitigated by hollow justtifications.

You knew all that before you posted.

Since you decided to wade into this one... A simple question-

Is it acceptable to tow a trailer that exceeds your vehicle's tow limit or tow with a vehicle/trailer that has deficiencies?

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Some people would argue that going fast in a boat is wanton, wreckless behavior. All it takes is a simple loss of steering, or a blown drive to make things go very wrong, very quickly. What are your thoughts on that?

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Acceptable?...It is generally accepted, believe it or not - either by way of ignorance, or through mitigated risk management:rolleyes:

Is it legal? No. Is it safe? No.

Does it deserve the dick-lashing you're handing out? No.

I'm with you on most of your issues(see my post #24). But your delivery leaves a little to be desired.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

In your example, does the boat have major, known safety defects that are purposefully being ignored by it's operator? Is he performing these actions in an area that a reasonable person would consider safe or is he rocketing down a narrow channel? Does he have occupants that are well aware of all these known issues and are willing participants or do they have a reasonable expectation of their safety being looked after that is not? If so, I'd say that for the activity he's performing, he's being irresponsible.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

BINGO!

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

I apologize if I have offended you.

We seem to have a non-stop stream of posters on here that ask this same question and get pi$$ed at the answers they get. We even have one fool here today that in essence said "I know what I'm doing is wrong and dangerous and I don't care" Do I care if he kills himself? No. He's clearly made an informed choice. The problem is that he's likely to take some innocent person with him and that's wrong.

There's little difference between this charachter and the habitual drunk driver. They're both doing something dangerous to others and they are both well-aware of the consequences of their actions. They just don't care. These are the same people who hate the MADD people because they interfere with their good time.

By the way, every time one of these clowns destroys their boat- whether on the trailer or on the water- it makes both of our insurance bills go up. You don't honestly believe that a guy who won't tie his boat to the trailer practices any safe boating procedures, do you?

Just like the drunk drivers (and the drunk boaters) it didn't begin to go away while people were making polite suggestions they stop. It took people screaming at the tops of their lungs and pounding their fists to get it curtailed. Maybe that's what's in order here.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

No, the bigger truck is my choice. Towing witin the law is a requirement. There's a difference.

A Kia and a Mercedes both meet the MINIMUM safety standards. Not everyone can afford the vast difference in crash-survivability that the Mercedes affords. On the other hand, a new Kia is about the same $$ as a nice, used Taurus. I know which one I'd rather have one of my teenage kids driving around.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

I think you know how I would answer all of those scenarios. Of course, I was talking about proper equipment that's well maintained -- my point is about perception, may it be fast boats, fast bikes, fast cars, skydiving, smoking, whatever, you name it.

My point is that one man's acceptible risk is someone else's irresponsible behavior.

I've had crotchedy old sailers approach me and look me in the eye at the marina and blurt out, "So, you're one of the ones who endanger all of us out there."

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Thanks, but I'm not offended. I simply took exception to the way in which you chose to deliver you message.

:)

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

What is the point of having a Trailer and Tow Vehivle section if people are afraid to ask questions? How does John Q Public become enlightened? People drive boats drunk all the time. People disagree about how much booze defines them being drunk. This stuff needs discussion apparently....

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

Hey Chris,, I have no doubt you drive 55 in a 55 and 35 in a 35 and you have NEVER driven over the speed limit correct ??? cause if you have, then your knowingly breaking the law and putting people besides yourself at risk right ???? which means you are no better than people who are knowingly exceeding their tow limits... :rolleyes:

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

I had an old geezer call my boat a pecker boat once.

Re: Towing capacity question??????
 

i know its unsafe, and clearly some guys get very very emotional about this subject, but im wondering, and im sure there are, if there are any stats on accidents, for ex: how many boats being towed got in accidents, how many were towing over there limit, how many were within the limit, what the damage was, cost personally, and cost to insurance co.. What the percentage of boats being towed "unsafely" actually get into an accident.. and how many being towed "safely" get into accidents, this would be very interesting,