Re: Red Death
 

If it don't say APACHE its not a true offshore boat I had three 41 apache's I know them better the anyone. :D

Re: Red Death
 

They all rode different two had #6 drives one has #4 drives. one was heavy two were light :D

Re: Red Death
 

Red Death, I don't recall anyone on here that owns an Apache asking you to put what you think the value is. If I had the monetary resources, a 41 Apache would be my first choice. I don't have that kind of jack, and I have the feeling neither do you. What do you care how long it takes someone to sell their boat? If they wanted your opinion, they'd ask for it. Move along. :rolleyes:

Re: Red Death
 

I own a 38 Cig totally rebuilt by Mark, Zero Cavity, Great Boat still working to own the Best, Apache, there is only one boat for true off shore big water,need prof? See you in Keywest in Two weeks, the best of the best will be there!!

Re: Red Death
 

Apache and Comanche come out of the same mold and are both built by McManus using the same materials. How can a deck make the difference in it's offshore abilities? Get to work on your Apache. See you in the Spring.
Ed

Re: Red Death
 

No doubt that the quality is there. Both Mark and Bobby built tremendously well-made boats. I'm talking more from a design perspective- I don't care for the new deck design Mark is using and as far as Chief building any successor to Apache, I think the step-bottom puts that argument to rest.

Re: Red Death
 

That's right up there with "Fords rule- Chevys are junk".

Maybe a picture of that little guy pi$$ing on a Fountain?

Re: Red Death
 

:D :D :D

Re: Red Death
 

Chris,

What 46' Cougar did you have?
Do you have any photo's of it? And what did ya have in it for power?

I see ya like your Apache, and I'm not debating that LOL.
But curious to what you thought of the 46' Cougar and what you really liked about it?

I'm hoping to be near or at completion on my 46' Cougar next fall. :D Been a trailer Queen since I've owned it. :(

Thanks
Cougarman

Re: Red Death
 

Had an all-white glass 46- bought it out of northern MI. Had OMC's on it- no motors. Put 3 540's with #3's in it. All my pics are film (was late going digital).

Don't get me wrong, the Cougar was a wave crusher. It was just really heavy and always felt stuck in the water. I was going to strip the cabin to see what that would do but I came across another 41 and decided to "go back home". I think my X was too conservative and that probably didn't help matters much. It would have been a major job to get it where I wanted it. The other issue I had was storage. Racks for boats that size don't exist around here. That's alot of trailer boat.
The Apache gives me the best of both worlds- wave crushing but it also feels "nimble" for lack of a better description. I guess nimble might not be the best word for it- especially for a resin bucket. The Apache just feels like it's running out of the water but still well-connected. The feel is always there- it gives you a sense of security even running hard. There's a video that was posted not long ago that shows what I mean. I think it was the Team boat- running on about the last 8' of the keel but flawlessly running straight and connected.

I'll have to admit- Every time I see one of those tin Cougar 46's on the market, I'm really tempted.

If I were you, I'd get with someone who has had some serious hands-on with the boats. They could give you better tuning suggestions. I'd definitely toss the cabin and lighten it as best you can. 5-blades might help- that was suggested to me. I don't know if anyone makes them for 3's or not- I never got that far.

What all are you doing to your 46?

Re: Red Death
 

where is every body?? Mark and I had have the Ocean to our self.... Saturday we run with a Cig name "Franchesca" That is the only boat we seen. who wants to coma out and play! ;)

Re: Red Death
 

My guess it has something to do with $3 fuel and 5-figure insurance bills.

Re: Red Death
 

About Cougars, I guy called big M is going to rerigg his Cougar 46 with tripple mercs 1075s. :eek:

edit:He´s located in the Archipelago of Stockholm Sweden.

Re: Red Death
 

Thanks for the info:

MRD maintained the boat from day 1 until I bought it.
I guess it was a pig to start with and took forever to get on plane.

#4,..........#3,..........#4
Level.........2" low.....Level......with bottom

Then switched to:

#4,..........#4,..........#4
2"low........2"high......2"low......with bottom
and picked up 5 to 6 mph, went on plane easier and all throttled the same after that.

They also said same thing that it seemed stuck to the water until ya got it over 70 mph then it finally came alive and felt like 30' once everything broke loose and started running like hell.

Here's a quote from the original owner in an email.
( THERE IS A NUMBER OF FACTORS TO WHAT WILL MAKE THE BOAT RUN REAL WELL IN THOSE HIGH SPEED NUMBERS… NO QUESTION HORSE POWER, I WOULD SAY THE MOTORS WERE IN THE 1150-1200 RANGE.

MOST IMPORTANT WAS THE HIGH TORQUE, THIS IS WHAT GETS THE BOAT UP AND GOING AND KEEPS IT RUNNING.

THE TORQUE NUMBERS WERE VERY HIGH AND THEY STAYED STEADY THROUGH VERY A LONG PART OF THE CURVE, UNFORTUNATELY I DO NOT HAVE THE DYNO SHEETS BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT TORQUE IS A BIG FACTOR.

WE KNOW THE BOAT RAN IN THAT 117 PLUS RANGE AS A NUMBER OF TIMES WE WERE UP AGAINST A COUPLE OF CATS AND THEY COULDN’T BELIEVE I WAS ALONG SIDE OF THEM WHILE THEY WERE POUNDING AND HOLDING ON FOR DEAR LIFE!

I HOPE I HAVE GIVEN YOU SOME DIRECTION HERE AND AGAIN PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SHARE ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR QUESTIONS WITH ME. )

He took great care of the boat and maintained it with an open check book. Since I bought it he has moved into a 46' skater.

Anyways back to your question I bought just the hull and have gathered up all the hard ware to but it back together.
Tall Deck 588's with #6's. Hoping she'll run good for what it is.

Cougarman

Re: Red Death
 

Everything for sale has a market price .Once again (and may i say NO ONE has answered my question)if they arw worth what you guys are CLAIMING ,why are the SAME boats for sale on the sales forem ,month after month.Because you own them naturally you think they are worth more then they are. Be realistic asking ang getting are very different. Everything sold (cars ,real estate ect) is based on comp values.Please nane the last Apache approx 20 years old that sold above 200,000.00

Re: Red Death
 

PS My friend Steve Leiffs 41 (Apache Warrior )is in excellent condition ,with a semi included and as i stated he can not get 85000.00 The boat is a short stagger (very heavy ) radar arcy,800,number 3as It needs very little cosmetically and as one guy referred is not some beat up piece of garbage. It is a two owner boat never raced and maintained with an open checkbook.The market is just not there for the NUMBERS some biased owners are claiming.

Re: Red Death
 

You still here ?????? Go buy a #3 boat, put 1000's in it and knock yourself out then. You get what you pay for. Comparing an old #3 boat to Tonto is just silly.

Re: Red Death
 

Carl,how much more is Tonto worth twice.Please answer my last two questions.Please name the last 20 year old Apache that sold for more than 200,000.00 Please explain to me WHY we see the same boats for sale on the sales forem month after month.Awhile ago i had dinner with a friend who owns a large marine here in NJ.This guy has has or sold nearly every brand of high performance boat out there.He loves the Apaches .But has told me more than once (because of my expressed sales interest)no matter the condition,equiptment (engines drives )layup ect if you spend OVER 175-200 GRAND on one of them you will NEVER ,EVER get your money back.The market is dictated buy the year on the hull more than anything and twenty years is twenty years.

Re: Red Death
 

Carl
Remember the Whiners from Saturday night live? Here is one right on OSO!!

Re: Red Death
 

Chris
You like that old school Apache powerboat look. Can't say as I blame you.
Ed

Re: Red Death
 

...

Re: Red Death
 

If you need your money out of it, don't buy a boat, put it in the bank, if you have money then you can buy an APACHE. If you want to make money buy dirt, waterfront is best, good luck.

Re: Red Death
 

......

Re: Red Death
 

yup very tru....RD like i said in the past " you don't deserve to own a Apache"....it's a privilege to say you have a "APACHE"

Mike

Re: Red Death
 

Still no answers to my two questions WHY? Some are just AFRAID of the truth.Same boats ,(Commanche for example)same sales forem ,month after month same result= NONE SOLD.Its not a question of affording something, it is a question of way overpaying for something in a market thats just not there .If you guys were correct in your statements you would be able to provide me with a sales list and Commanches boat would have been sold many months ago.Instead comments are made without facts to back them up.

Re: Red Death
 

We are Apache owners.Some of our boats are for sale for many months at overinflated prices.Even though NONE are selling at these prices they are worth it because we say they are.You have no right to question our wisdom,just spend you money foolishly and pay our prices(even though no one else is )for the privlege of joining us in owning a boat we are upside down in for more money than we will ever admitt. You guys are TOO funny.

Re: Red Death
 

Take a look at the OSO classifieds....

There are just as many Cigs, Fountains and even Skaters that have been for sale for as long if not longer than the boats you reference above.

The market is in bad shape at this moment and attempting to judge the saleability of any brand in a downturned market is unfair.

BTW....you never answered the question about what boats you've owned or currently owned....

Re: Red Death
 

I know of 2 Apaches that sold for more than 200k in the last year, but I don't discuss other peoples business without there approval. I'm funny like that.

If you think they are to expensive(over-valued), don't buy one. This shouldn't be that difficult. If these owners decide to lower the price, they will. If they don't decide to lower the price, then once again, buy something else. You would be a great Fountain owner IMHO. Your constant whining about over-valued Apaches is getting tiresome.

P.S. Forem = Forum

Re: Red Death
 

RedDeath,

Why is a 40 year old 1966 AC Cobra 427 worth a $500,000
plus? You could buy a new kit that probably has better componets than an original etc.

Cause there limited, Desired, Bad A**, Never tiring, classic,
shall I go on?


Apache's are the same , limited, Desired, Bad A**, Never tiring, classic, and a Bench Mark for True Offshore Boats.



Cougarman

Re: Red Death
 

This is pretty much it right there.
What is wrong w/ your friends apache for sale for 85k?
You could sell the parts for some cash and put your equip/rigging into it. Would make a nice pr/racer and you wouldn't get clobbered on resale since you buy right and clean it up to make it more attractive to the next buyer.

BTW, Wes' KAGEMAN is an awsome buy, figuring nothing is wrong w/ it, which I will, figuring its Wes'.


And if you are looking for an older Race boat, I don't think prices will be dropping anytime soon. With the rise of HORBA, any races boats older than 1990 with any kind of history should hold value better.

Just my $0.02.

BTW, the Larry Smith in the Classifieds sounds like a perfect boat for you. Any of you Apache guys wanna bash Larry?

http://www.offshoreonly.com/esvon/page-3335.html
http://www.offshoreonly.com/esvon/page-10266.html

Re: Red Death
 

Aren't you going to be late for school today?

Re: Red Death
 

guys i think red death is a guy who called me and jerked me around saying he was coming to my shop twice to look at my boat.....he wanted to be in a boat with 6's and he was going to buy a set of 900's or something for 70k but he only wanted to spenD 125k totaL so that leaves him 55k for a complete boat ready to drop in his motors with a trailer with 6's? WTF?

anyway red death seems to be a dreamer and i dont know about you guys but time is money to me and to post here even answering these bogus posts is a waste...and by the way IF MY BOAT SELLS GREAT IF IT DOESNT I DONT REALLY CARE IT CAN SIT IN MY WAREHOUSE UNTIL I FINISH IT PRETTY SIMPLE...............JUST PULL THE TRIGGER INSTEAD OR POSTING ABOUT WHAT STUFF ISNT WORTH MAYBE IF YOU FOCUSED MORE ONMAKING MONEY THESE PRICES WOULDNT BOTHER YOU INSTEAD OF WASTING TIME ONHERE NOT MAKING MONEY COMPLAINING ABOUT PRICES....NO ONE WILL FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.......AS I WAS TOLD WHEN I WAS A KID....LOOKING FOR AN APACHE "YA GOTTA PAY TO PLAY" SO THATS WHAT I DID.....JOIN THE CLUB AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLES PRIDE AND JOY YOU CANT PUT APRICE ON SOMEONE HARD WORK.....JUST BUY A BOAT !!!!! :evilb:

Re: Red Death
 

GOING GOOD...GOT SOME NEW BUSINESS VENTURES IN PLAY YOU?

Re: Red Death
 

Wes,Leafs boat is too heavy for what i want thanks though Cougar man the problem is Apaches are not exotic or classic muscle cars your comparing apples to oranges(i know i collect and race Vipers) Commanche lets be real 80,000.00 for an incomplete tripple engine hull going on 16 years old.They are beating down the doors for the thing.I know you dont really want to sell it as you claim but interestling enough evertime someone inquires about a 41 you offer yours for sale.People then inquire about what it needs and after they do the math they realize YOU WANT TOO MUCH DAMN MONEY.

Re: Red Death
 

boat = a hole in water in which you depost money for membership to the king neptune sociaty...........my 41 is not for sale at this point due to the exitement i got the last week I have changed my mind.life is to short.................magnum mark..boater since 1957.........

Re: Red Death
 

LMAO... http://www.offshoreonly.com/esvon/page-13117.html

No offense to the owner, but that boat has NOTHING on any of the boats you are referring to.

You don't seem to realize the cost of McManus redoing the 41 Scarface has. I'd take that bare hull with a trailer, over your buddies Apache any day of the week.

It's all laid out right in front of you. The above boat IS what you get for $95k. If you want to be a big dog and run an Apache with some heritage behind it, you're going to pay.

Most of the boats up for sale have an enormous amount of $$$ invested in them, and are meticulous in and out.

Doesn't matter that they are 20 years old. They were built stout, and the big name shops keep them that way.

Oh, and the reason why the same boats show up for sale.... Is because there ain't a whole lot of Apaches around.

And 70% of the ones out there, are either keepers, or still being raced LOL.

Good luck on your quest. Sounds like you'll be looking for awhile.

Entertaining thread though!

Re: Red Death
 

What's your point? Are you trying to buy an Apache on the cheap?

Like any boat, an Apache is worth what someone will pay for it.

Please move on.

Re: Red Death
 

Red Death ,,, You are missing the point,,,, Not the Apache owner that has one for sale... Any Item that does not have comparable sales in the market place cannot have a like kind value placed on it,,,, because there will be No MORE APACHE'S (from the old company) you can not make comp's work,,,, Which means,,, there is a buyer and a seller,,, if they agree on a price then a deal can be made,,,,,,, from what I see,,, You do not want to buy as much as a seller wants to sell!!! or you will not pay the price that it takes to make me want to sell !! Good luck trying to get "into the club" :rolleyes:

RHC

Re: Red Death
 

Most of these boats are owned by people w/ MONEY, enough money to easily maintain one. They don't need to sell the boat, therefore, asking prices can remain 'high'. If there was a real immediate NEED to sell the boat, the price would have to come down to where a buyer was willing to pay. And that is why they stay for sale for so long. I hope this answers your original question.

Re: Red Death
 

EXACTLY!