41 Apache knock off (fake apache) 41 Legend Offshore
06-28-2009 | 12:17 PM
#41
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,844
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From: Bradenton Florida
Well to be fair what would you guys refer to the boat as?? An imitation? A copy? A one off ??? A duplicate? Even though the reference of duplicate would mean an exact copy which it is not as we all know. The terms I used as fake and a knock off was not meant in anyway to be derogatory at all but I was careful not to use terms that would suggest that the bost was an exact replica of a real 41 from apache power boat company for I did not want to get bashed for saying it was made as the same thing so I used terms stipulating it was similar but not an exact imitation or copy because there are differences in the hull as stated above by a few others referencing the angle of the transom and the deletion of the large notch at the transom etc. Seems no matter what terms I would have used it would have been commented on as incorrect so its a no win situation when you think about it. Regardless of the terminology it is one bad ass boat and the new owner is very proud of it and has done some great upgrades because now the engines are sporting new BDS superchargers and the origional mooneyham superchargers are gone (Mercury racing-mercury marine always used Mooneyham blowers as OEM parts) and now the new or refreshed engines are proudly showing BDS, and its been said the new engines are pushing roughly 1300 HP each even though that's only hearsay only the owner can verify that. In the video you will see how well balanced the full stagger setup actually is and how well this boat effortlessly skims top to top in the key west waters which are not crazy rough but just right for a good amount of speed and not excessive hang time and she is tached up in the mid 5's and just eating it all up with no skips in her steps at all. What would be really great would be to see this boat and a real factory Kramer-Scaccenti 41 next to each other running around 70 side by side seeing how they compare in the same water conditions. I don't know if there are any factory 41's at LOTO where white lightning is so that's a video I would love to see but probably won't.
Anyway you cut it this boat can handle itself and demands recognition and respect wherever it goes. And from when I called Northcoast Yachts a few years ago this Legend offshore is hull #2 so the big question is where is hull #1??? I'm sure it will surface someday but I have not seen or heard about boat #1 and when it was sold origionally it did not have a name
So if you feel you want to call it a fake apache. A knock off a one off a copy a duplicate an imitation a replica, a joint venture (which it was not really a joint venture it was leased to make a few hulls and that was it feel free to reference this boat however you wish but as I stated before and to make myself perfectly clear it was NOT meant as a DEROGATORY statement in anyway at all I just did not know what to call it and I think there would have been comments no matter what I referred to the boat as because all the terms sort of sound derogatory even though they are not meant to be and I am not saying the boat is inferior at all because a lot of us have seen this since it sat at the aqua toy store for a long time and has been the subject of conversation for years off and on. So feel free to refer to this boat however you want but always know if you are running at LOTO and she sneaks up on you that you are going to have to have your game face on to compete with it cause this thing runs like a raped ape with 2600 HP under the hatches so beware!!!
Anyway you cut it this boat can handle itself and demands recognition and respect wherever it goes. And from when I called Northcoast Yachts a few years ago this Legend offshore is hull #2 so the big question is where is hull #1??? I'm sure it will surface someday but I have not seen or heard about boat #1 and when it was sold origionally it did not have a name
So if you feel you want to call it a fake apache. A knock off a one off a copy a duplicate an imitation a replica, a joint venture (which it was not really a joint venture it was leased to make a few hulls and that was it feel free to reference this boat however you wish but as I stated before and to make myself perfectly clear it was NOT meant as a DEROGATORY statement in anyway at all I just did not know what to call it and I think there would have been comments no matter what I referred to the boat as because all the terms sort of sound derogatory even though they are not meant to be and I am not saying the boat is inferior at all because a lot of us have seen this since it sat at the aqua toy store for a long time and has been the subject of conversation for years off and on. So feel free to refer to this boat however you want but always know if you are running at LOTO and she sneaks up on you that you are going to have to have your game face on to compete with it cause this thing runs like a raped ape with 2600 HP under the hatches so beware!!!
06-28-2009 | 02:32 PM
#42
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,042
Likes: 712
From: Toledo Oh
Well to be fair what would you guys refer to the boat as?? An imitation? A copy? A one off ??? A duplicate? Even though the reference of duplicate would mean an exact copy which it is not as we all know. The terms I used as fake and a knock off was not meant in anyway to be derogatory at all but I was careful not to use terms that would suggest that the bost was an exact replica of a real 41 from apache power boat company for I did not want to get bashed for saying it was made as the same thing so I used terms stipulating it was similar but not an exact imitation or copy because there are differences in the hull as stated above by a few others referencing the angle of the transom and the deletion of the large notch at the transom etc. Seems no matter what terms I would have used it would have been commented on as incorrect so its a no win situation when you think about it. Regardless of the terminology it is one bad ass boat and the new owner is very proud of it and has done some great upgrades because now the engines are sporting new BDS superchargers and the origional mooneyham superchargers are gone (Mercury racing-mercury marine always used Mooneyham blowers as OEM parts) and now the new or refreshed engines are proudly showing BDS, and its been said the new engines are pushing roughly 1300 HP each even though that's only hearsay only the owner can verify that. In the video you will see how well balanced the full stagger setup actually is and how well this boat effortlessly skims top to top in the key west waters which are not crazy rough but just right for a good amount of speed and not excessive hang time and she is tached up in the mid 5's and just eating it all up with no skips in her steps at all. What would be really great would be to see this boat and a real factory Kramer-Scaccenti 41 next to each other running around 70 side by side seeing how they compare in the same water conditions. I don't know if there are any factory 41's at LOTO where white lightning is so that's a video I would love to see but probably won't.
Anyway you cut it this boat can handle itself and demands recognition and respect wherever it goes. And from when I called Northcoast Yachts a few years ago this Legend offshore is hull #2 so the big question is where is hull #1??? I'm sure it will surface someday but I have not seen or heard about boat #1 and when it was sold origionally it did not have a name
So if you feel you want to call it a fake apache. A knock off a one off a copy a duplicate an imitation a replica, a joint venture (which it was not really a joint venture it was leased to make a few hulls and that was it feel free to reference this boat however you wish but as I stated before and to make myself perfectly clear it was NOT meant as a DEROGATORY statement in anyway at all I just did not know what to call it and I think there would have been comments no matter what I referred to the boat as because all the terms sort of sound derogatory even though they are not meant to be and I am not saying the boat is inferior at all because a lot of us have seen this since it sat at the aqua toy store for a long time and has been the subject of conversation for years off and on. So feel free to refer to this boat however you want but always know if you are running at LOTO and she sneaks up on you that you are going to have to have your game face on to compete with it cause this thing runs like a raped ape with 2600 HP under the hatches so beware!!!
Anyway you cut it this boat can handle itself and demands recognition and respect wherever it goes. And from when I called Northcoast Yachts a few years ago this Legend offshore is hull #2 so the big question is where is hull #1??? I'm sure it will surface someday but I have not seen or heard about boat #1 and when it was sold origionally it did not have a name
So if you feel you want to call it a fake apache. A knock off a one off a copy a duplicate an imitation a replica, a joint venture (which it was not really a joint venture it was leased to make a few hulls and that was it feel free to reference this boat however you wish but as I stated before and to make myself perfectly clear it was NOT meant as a DEROGATORY statement in anyway at all I just did not know what to call it and I think there would have been comments no matter what I referred to the boat as because all the terms sort of sound derogatory even though they are not meant to be and I am not saying the boat is inferior at all because a lot of us have seen this since it sat at the aqua toy store for a long time and has been the subject of conversation for years off and on. So feel free to refer to this boat however you want but always know if you are running at LOTO and she sneaks up on you that you are going to have to have your game face on to compete with it cause this thing runs like a raped ape with 2600 HP under the hatches so beware!!!
I think a suitable term may be that its a "variation" as it is basically the same boat with some variation to the design that the builder thought would be beneficial.. you take a design, make a few changes and you have a variant of the original. consider how many variations there are of the 24x7 hull...
06-28-2009 | 04:05 PM
#44
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Posts: 9,214
Likes: 5
I think a suitable term may be that its a "variation" as it is basically the same boat with some variation to the design that the builder thought would be beneficial.. you take a design, make a few changes and you have a variant of the original. consider how many variations there are of the 24x7 hull...
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap13.html
06-28-2009 | 04:42 PM
#45
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 11
It better be done legally, because there are protection laws in the U.S.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap13.html
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap13.html
06-28-2009 | 05:44 PM
#46
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,042
Likes: 712
From: Toledo Oh
It better be done legally, because there are protection laws in the U.S.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap13.html
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap13.html
(a) In General. — Subject to subsection (b), the protection provided under this chapter for a design shall continue for a term of 10 years beginning on the date of the commencement of protection under section 1304
how old is the 41???????????????
06-28-2009 | 05:49 PM
#47
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,214
Likes: 5
It depends on the renewal. And with the economy in the shape it's in (new powerboat building in particular) isn't the most lucerative endeavor.
Last edited by Comanche3Six; 06-28-2009 at 06:32 PM.
06-28-2009 | 07:13 PM
#48
Frank's Marine Service
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,959
Likes: 142
From: Elkton, MD
It's been said the molds were leased so if that's true they could have pulled an exact copy and you can wipe your azz with the laws.. lol 
Add Sabre into the mix...they bought the molds... Matter of fact, there were a LOT of molds that were sold by the gooberment and others that were/are being used. Besides, the hull is antequated.
Fact remains, it's a really nice boat and the updated deck lines are pretty nice in my opinion.
Later!
Add Sabre into the mix...they bought the molds... Matter of fact, there were a LOT of molds that were sold by the gooberment and others that were/are being used. Besides, the hull is antequated.
Fact remains, it's a really nice boat and the updated deck lines are pretty nice in my opinion.
Later!
Last edited by Panther; 06-28-2009 at 07:15 PM.
06-28-2009 | 07:57 PM
#50
VIP Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,314
Likes: 1,556
From: Maryland
It's been said the molds were leased so if that's true they could have pulled an exact copy and you can wipe your azz with the laws.. lol
Add Sabre into the mix...they bought the molds... Matter of fact, there were a LOT of molds that were sold by the gooberment and others that were/are being used. Besides, the hull is antequated.
Fact remains, it's a really nice boat and the updated deck lines are pretty nice in my opinion.
Later!
Add Sabre into the mix...they bought the molds... Matter of fact, there were a LOT of molds that were sold by the gooberment and others that were/are being used. Besides, the hull is antequated.
Fact remains, it's a really nice boat and the updated deck lines are pretty nice in my opinion.
Later!
