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Thanks Guys! I try to keep as clean as possible!
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Originally Posted by frickstyle
(Post 3893487)
What blowers are you running? what snouts? Can you post detail pics of your blower pulley, and serpentine pulleys, and setup? Also, the blower belt tensioner?
I was looking over mine last night, I need to revamp some things and needed some ideas. Who makes a nice tensioner setup for the 420 Megablower??? Thanks. Snout - Original 420 Snout Pulleys - 8mm Set Up Belt Tension - The Blower Shop Here is the Belt Tensioner It bolts up with the water pump holes in the block http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psc93575dd.jpg My Bottom Pulley Set Up http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psa9d4be83.jpg Top Pulley http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps425a3f90.jpg What it looked like in the boat! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psc4c4fc9b.jpg |
so you have 8 mm pulley right? when you say that, I guess it's the size of the blower pulley, not the crank, right?
what sizes pulley are available? you have 8 mm, is there 7 and 6 and 5 and so on? Is there a rule of thumb like, a 8 mm pulley is 5 pounds of boost, and a 7 mm is a... 7 pounds of boost? just throwing numbers as example but I don't know sh.t about blowers! Thanks for teaching me! |
8mm is the belt tooth design (round tooth). 1.2" pitch is square tooth. Below is a link to a site with raio chart.
http://goodvibesracing.com/Ratio_Charts.htm |
Originally Posted by jeff32
(Post 3893587)
so you have 8 mm pulley right? when you say that, I guess it's the size of the blower pulley, not the crank, right?
what sizes pulley are available? you have 8 mm, is there 7 and 6 and 5 and so on? Is there a rule of thumb like, a 8 mm pulley is 5 pounds of boost, and a 7 mm is a... 7 pounds of boost? just throwing numbers as example but I don't know sh.t about blowers! Thanks for teaching me! The 8mm Pulley just refers to the cog pulley set up. You either have a 8mm style or an rib style. The Rib is your serpentine belt (like a car) you have have 8 ribs or 16. The 8mm set up (Cog style) has zero slip... where a serpentine will still slip a little... However the low boost settings on boat engines... either one is perfectly fine. You get the boost from the size of the top & bottom pulley... either over driven or under driven. My top pulley is a 46 tooth, my bottom pulley is a 54 tooth The math to figure it out is Bottom teeth / Top Teeth = Blower Ratio 54 / 46 = 1.17 17% Over Drive This set up made 6lbs of boost with my old cam.. I have a custom cam now that is quite a bit smaller.... I am guessing the boost will be at 8lbs. But you have to add the chillers back in, that is going to take some boost away. I won't know exactly what the boost is until we run it... Should be between 6-8lbs |
Great Thread. Thank you for sharing Well Done !!!!!!!!!! Bill
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MMB, Awesome, thanks,
That's exactley what I needed. Now, if I can just find the parts..... Here's a stupid question: With the cog style belt system, does it not require as much tension as a rib style setup? Looks like you just snug the tensioner up almost by hand. Unlike a rib style, which uses a threaded advance (or similar) to really put the "hurt" on the belt? I guess once it's relatively snug, it can't slip because of the cog drive.... |
Originally Posted by frickstyle
(Post 3893824)
MMB, Awesome, thanks,
That's exactley what I needed. Now, if I can just find the parts..... Here's a stupid question: With the cog style belt system, does it not require as much tension as a rib style setup? Looks like you just snug the tensioner up almost by hand. Unlike a rib style, which uses a threaded advance (or similar) to really put the "hurt" on the belt? I guess once it's relatively snug, it can't slip because of the cog drive.... You run right at 1.5" of slack in the belt.. You can move it 3/4" side to side If you call the blower shop, they have everything your going to need! |
Originally Posted by mmb
(Post 3894059)
You run right at 1.5" of slack in the belt.. You can move it 3/4" side to side
If you call the blower shop, they have everything your going to need! |
Originally Posted by frickstyle
(Post 3894162)
This is probably in one of our earlier posts, what compression ratio are you running at a 17% overdrive? Are you running 93 octane or higher (at 6-8 psi)?
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Cool, thanks. Think I'm going to switch to the 8mm cog setup, same as you have, nice stuff. Wow, that stuff adds up quick when you have to peice it together!!! $$$ But at this point I ask myself, hell, why not?
Something isn't adding up on my end. 572cu in., 8.3:1 comp, so 17%, 20%, or 25% overdrive for 5-8psi? Anything over 18% sounds high to me.... I am not an engine builder, nor do I pretend to be, just looking for setup feedback here..... |
I would suggest starting with the least amount of overdrive that way you can get a good tune up and then go up from there if need be. especially if this is your first time with a blower engine. Better safe then sorry. Also Boost is just a number of resistance so depending on the size of your engine and how efficient it is will determine the amount of boost it makes.
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Boat looks great Mark your going to have a really nice piece when all said and done!!!
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Originally Posted by IRWIN
(Post 3894508)
Boat looks great Mark your going to have a really nice piece when all said and done!!!
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Originally Posted by frickstyle
(Post 3894451)
Cool, thanks. Think I'm going to switch to the 8mm cog setup, same as you have, nice stuff. Wow, that stuff adds up quick when you have to peice it together!!! $$$ But at this point I ask myself, hell, why not?
Something isn't adding up on my end. 572cu in., 8.3:1 comp, so 17%, 20%, or 25% overdrive for 5-8psi? Anything over 18% sounds high to me.... I am not an engine builder, nor do I pretend to be, just looking for setup feedback here..... Frick, I would listen to Joe on the boost deal... After all he is going to tune my engines in the boat! You can use this diagram as a refrence point... 570ci 8-9lbs they are calling for 25% OD http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps94f8b703.png |
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Mark I've been told more than once on smaller c.i. Motors that chart is a ways off. Did you compare it to your past setup?
Curious if they were closer on 540-572s. Frick your gonna have to overdrive these 420's a bit more to provide enough air for 570+". That's really at the top of their efficiency. Right around 850 I think? If you have the 16 rib pullies now I'd be interested in them if you go to 8mm |
Originally Posted by lil red
(Post 3894742)
Mark I've been told more than once on smaller c.i. Motors that chart is a ways off. Did you compare it to your past setup?
Curious if they were closer on 540-572s. Frick your gonna have to overdrive these 420's a bit more to provide enough air for 570+". That's really at the top of their efficiency. Right around 850 I think? If you have the 16 rib pullies now I'd be interested in them if you go to 8mm |
Originally Posted by mmb
(Post 3894797)
Mine was 2lbs low from the chart.... But i really think it was because of the cam they were using... It was crazy huge for a 6000rpm engine.
-We when we first tore dowm my 575SCI's we found solid roller cams similar in size to a 1075 cam, roller liters beating on the spash tray under the intake. (looked like 16 ball peen hammers had at it) and the stock flat fappet valve springs... Also supposed to have been done by an industry 'expert' Great thread BTW, nice attention to detail and enjoy the updates. Good luck! Kurt |
Originally Posted by Biggus
(Post 3894799)
You've got to wonder what these builders are thinking when you find components that ire so mis-matched for the application.
-We when we first tore dowm my 575SCI's we found solid roller cams similar in size to a 1075 cam, roller liters beating on the spash tray under the intake. (looked like 16 ball peen hammers had at it) and the stock flat fappet valve springs... Also supposed to have been done by an industry 'expert' Great thread BTW, nice attention to detail and enjoy the updates. Good luck! Kurt Jeez.... Im glad its not only me... I think if more boaters started looking into their engines, some of these industry experts would quickly be out of business |
Anything new Mark? You've been quiet :whistle:
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Originally Posted by Flamingo 32
(Post 3899204)
Anything new Mark? You've been quiet :whistle:
Joe at Fast Forward has all the machine work done! Should be able to pick everything up Monday. |
Here are some pics of the Carbs!! Joe Irwin at Fast Forward Marine/Race Engines rebuilt them with all 100% new parts!! Throttle Shafts, Throttle Blades, Pumps, Linkages... etc etc!! Joe took the inch of paint off them too & refinished them back to the Holley Zinc Finish!!
No modifications were done to the carbs. These carbs were worked over by The Carb Shop in 2008. Joe just put them back to brand new condition!! Here is the ugly before.... http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psecdefc0b.jpg And after!!! They look sexy new now!! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps82cae605.jpg Another!! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psc38c1c11.jpg |
Wow, nice job! They sure cleaned up nice. Like the natural zinc finish, never was into painted carbs.
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You are doing a very nice job, attention to detail!!!
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Looking good Mark, looking REAL good!
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This thread is sweet, Thanks for sharing!
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Went through the distributors last night. Polished the shafts out Plus New cap and Rotor
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps11ddab7c.jpg Inside the housing had some metal shavings (when the oil holes were drilled) that were waiting to fall inside my engine... http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8c6828dd.jpg Deburred the inside of the Distributor housing. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psf1d4ae47.jpg Deburred the outside of the Distributor and bead blasted all the paint off the housing that rides inside the engine... Last thing I need is paint chips in the oil galley plugging up my lifters. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps70c69765.jpg Distributor Put back together. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps719a6694.jpg New Gear Installed, the new gear is taller and did not need the shim http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps337c07fa.jpg Old Iron Gear on the Right. New Steel Gear for the Billet Steel cam on the left http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...pscc032e0a.jpg Here you can see the New Steel gear is taller and why you no longer need a distributor shim. If you try to put it together with the shim the distributor is locked up.... No good :angry-smiley-038: The Distributor has the same exact endplay with the new gear and no shim vs. the old gear and shim. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psf2b78728.jpg |
Got an Update from Joe at Fast Forward. Joe did not like the way the spray mounted on the block, it required drilling holes into a structural area of the block... So instead of potentially making the block weaker Joe decided to make his own spray bars for the engine.
New CNC Spray bar Joe Designed!! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7bb7cbf1.jpg Billet CNC Clamps for the Spray bar. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psaa1c73f1.jpg Complete Spray bar with an oil shield to keep the hot oil off the bottom of the intake. That should help to keep the intake from getting heat soaked!! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5eb0fbfe.jpg |
Great design on the spray bar, also nice catch on the metal chips in the distributor housing that would have sucked.
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Originally Posted by mmb
(Post 3901885)
Got an Update from Joe at Fast Forward. Joe did not like the way the spray mounted on the block, it required drilling holes into a structural area of the block... So instead of potentially making the block weaker Joe decided to make his own spray bars for the engine.
New CNC Spray bar Joe Designed!! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7bb7cbf1.jpg Billet CNC Clamps for the Spray bar. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psaa1c73f1.jpg Complete Spray bar with an oil shield to keep the hot oil off the bottom of the intake. That should help to keep the intake from getting heat soaked!! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5eb0fbfe.jpg Just kidding, boat looks great!!! |
Originally Posted by rchevelle71
(Post 3901945)
Looks like a T.P. holder:lolhit:
Just kidding, boat looks great!!! It's fully adjustable... Front / Back then rotate the spray bar.... That way you are sure it's hitting the cam lobes!! I'm sure it will look much better when it is machined out of Billet Aluminum and has an Aluminum Hard Line feeding it :lolhit: |
mmb, awesome thread, and as someone said earlier, your attention to detail is inspiring. A lot of people (myself included at times) get anxious and start skipping steps. Recipe for disaster.
Looks like you did some business with a couple guys from my neck of the woods. I know Bob did your cam/valvetrain layout, but I saw a Cam Motion box in your goodies. Kip's a good guy. He ground a couple cams for my old Formula and I couldn't have been more pleased. He also does a bunch of work for a friend of mine that drives an outlaw truck. Now Earl Zimmer, I had to chuckle when I saw his name come up. That guy is definitely one of a kind. I've done gobs of business with he and Danny, and you're right - first class individual. He has been in business for many years here in Baton Rouge and has forgotten more about powertrain/transmissions than most of us will ever know. I remember talking to him when he had just taken over the Huber line. Another tidbit - Earl's brother-in-law is Ted McIntyre of Marine Turbine Technologies. ETA: May be former brother-in-law now!! Again, awesome thread. I don't follow OSO like I used to, but when I see a thread like this, I'm tuned in!! |
Originally Posted by Croozin2
(Post 3902024)
mmb, awesome thread, and as someone said earlier, your attention to detail is inspiring. A lot of people (myself included at times) get anxious and start skipping steps. Recipe for disaster.
Looks like you did some business with a couple guys from my neck of the woods. I know Bob did your cam/valvetrain layout, but I saw a Cam Motion box in your goodies. Kip's a good guy. He ground a couple cams for my old Formula and I couldn't have been more pleased. He also does a bunch of work for a friend of mine that drives an outlaw truck. Now Earl Zimmer, I had to chuckle when I saw his name come up. That guy is definitely one of a kind. I've done gobs of business with he and Danny, and you're right - first class individual. He has been in business for many years here in Baton Rouge and has forgotten more about powertrain/transmissions than most of us will ever know. I remember talking to him when he had just taken over the Huber line. Another tidbit - Earl's brother-in-law is Ted McIntyre of Marine Turbine Technologies. ETA: May be former brother-in-law now!! Again, awesome thread. I don't follow OSO like I used to, but when I see a thread like this, I'm tuned in!! Thanks!! It motivates me to post more pictures when I know people actually enjoy seeing it! My custom cams were ground at Cam Motion as well!! Bob must have a pretty good business relationship with them. They are for sure some of the nicest cams I have seen yet!! Yeah old Earl is awesome!! Reminds me.... I need to bug him again for some new trans pumps. They were out getting heat treated last time I called him! I decided to put brand new pumps on..... Might as well do it while I still have easy access to them. The old pumps are in great shape, but I like the idea of heat treated gears! |
Some Pics from last nights session!! While we are waiting for the new Lifter Spray Bars to get machined and installed on the blocks. I am putting the heads together.
I took all the heads to Joe Irwin at Fast Forward. He wanted to check all the guide clearances even though Dart just installed new guides in the heads. Turns out Joe's hunch was right!! He thought the new guides would be a little tight for a 4000-5000rpm endurance Marine engine. Joe ended up Resizing all the guides in both sets of heads!! All I can say is they feel silky smooth now compared to what Dart had them at!! Awesome!! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6bbdf4d3.jpg Heads cleaned and all the valves installed with some lube in the guides http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps53699273.jpg Double Checked my Spring Micrometer before setting up the heads! Springs will be installed at 1.900" Install Height http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psca61e2f1.jpg Setting up The springs heights with the correct amount of shims http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps92f30ffb.jpg http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psa66351a0.jpg Again http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4ae5b030.jpg All the valves Set and ready to install seals & springs http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps942885fa.jpg Installing the screw on seals! I remove the spring and install it last. Otherwise it gets messed up when your screwing the seal on. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps64aa2484.jpg Springs on the seals installed. You can see the valve spring seats and shims pretty good in this pic too! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps726521e0.jpg All the seals installed & ready for valve springs http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps062470df.jpg Checking retainer to seal clearance on the exhaust. Cams are right at .650 lift so we are all good! http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psa068e27e.jpg Retainer to Seal clearance on the intake. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8c385a3c.jpg Installing the springs with the spring compressor. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps166f438f.jpg Spring compressed & ready for the valve locks http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psc9f2defa.jpg Springs Installed http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9c74296c.jpg http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psffa1dbb7.jpg http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5462ec14.jpg |
Now that the heads are set up with a 1.900" spring height. You should have 170 pounds of pressure on seat according the Isky's chart.
Setting up seat pressure gauge. http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psfa21ffcc.jpg 170 pounds of pressure exactly!! Now it's time to do the remaining heads :lolhit: http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psf8032cd2.jpg |
Why Is There paint on valve spring?
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Originally Posted by jeff32
(Post 3903253)
Why Is There paint on valve spring?
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Incredible attention to detail.
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Great job!! The three most expensive words in boating "Might As Well"!!!!
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