How to put a Notch in a Flat Deck
 

Well call me crazy , but I just cut a big hole in my boat that floated perfectly well. As I am putting No. 5 drives on the boat and changing the drive.height. Boat experts far smarter than I suggested a notch would be the way to go as I am not putting extension boxes at this time .
So here are a few pictures of the piece Hull I have removed ( I will give someone a good deal it on it if you are looking to fill in a notch LOL) , the hole I created and the lay up of the notch insert

:poopoo::eekdrop: I have done some crazy stuff, but I think this one takes the cake. Good Luck!

Look for posts from ridefast77 or sonic forum. He did similar project.

That is one of the wilder projects I've seen on here.

Other than that one guy in our area that is completely re-doing a boat that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% would have left for flower and small tree duty

Kudos to you, either for your mad skills or giant balls :lolhit:
Either way, neat project, will be watching.

For my sake alot of both I hope . Either way I am upgrading my swiming skills just in case.
RG.

All kidding aside it will not be as difficult as it looks . the 2 hard parts are cutting the initial opening and glassing the underside of the notch . The quality of the materials today given proper appilcation make the process alot easier than in the past and the odds of success are near perfect . The new resins bond like steel and the fact that I will tie the notch insert to the center and outside stringers should limit the possiblity of failure . I will continue post pics as I go along , it is amazing how much preplanning was involed for what I thought was a simple fiberglass insert.
Rick G.

Keep us posted with lots of pics :popcorn: cool project

Your going to be very suprised how hard it is, cutting the hull like that is a big mistake, it will never be the same structurally, good luck

Orion I surely hope you are wrong about the structural integrety. Phil at Lipship marine certainly didn't share your concern as he has done this modification on more than one occassion . Given the bonding materials today I am hoping that the structure will the same if not better . Hulls are repaired successfully on routine basis these days I hope mine falls into that category . Besides there is no turning back I already cut the hole.

RG.

Look foward to the pics, Great Project


Jon

Orion I just had a thought and a chuckle. If you think my project is daring you should read the post about the guy who cut his 35 Cigarette down and made a 28 open out of it .
RG.

BULLSH*T if you knew a tenth of what Rick G knows about glass and composites you'd be a GURU...
comment not please, only positive reinforcement needed here!!!:thankyouthankyou:

don't lose a seconds sleep over it buddy... do you think I would have handed you the sawsall if I didn't think you were up to the task? lmao!!!
and then the Scarab is next to go under the blade!!! BOUAAAAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

Wouldn't surprise me if some crazzy guys on here build some steps in a flatbottom...LOL... but why not ? ;)

Cafe Man don't give me any crazy ideas . Come to think of it I think I saw a 41 Apache for sale that had a step put in it. I never heard whether it actually worked . All kidding aside given the type of boating I do ( pleasure) I have never been a fan of step hull boats not withstanding the performance advantages . Even thought straight bottom hulls are slower I think they are just more predictably ( read easier ) to drive . Just my personal opinion.
I will post pictures of my adventure as it progresses .
RG.

That Apache you're referring to looks like a mess on the bottom. I've seen it in person. Good luck with your project.

Cored Hull or Solid? Make sure you grind back real good all around seam before starting layup, at least 8 or 10 inches.

Rick, I am the guy that is redoing the 35' Cig into a 28' cc. You have no reason to be concerned with structural integrity as long as you use the right materials and proper prep. These hulls are laid up with polyester and last for decades, so by using superior vinylester and epoxy resins with new fabrics you can improve the structural integrity. Do make sure to taper the bottom laminate back from the cut to maximize the bonding area. I applaud your project. Just got the teak floors installed in the 28. Hope it does not fall apart !

Automobili , it is a solid kelvar hull no coring ( thank god one less issue to work around). To clarify the hull is laid up in alternating layers of Kevlar weave and mat . The basicc hull I counted to be a total of 18 to 20 layers . the stringers areas and especially the keel are significantly thicker( more than double in the keel area) . I agree I had intended to fearther out at least 6 to 8 inchs on the outer hull and 8 to 10 inches on the inner hull in addition to tying the the center and next stringers throught the notch into the new transom I am doing . I am certain it will be plenty strong. The lay up will consist alternateing layers of biax and trix with kevlar for good measure , bonded with a particular vinylester resin.The finished uncored notch should be atleast 3/4 of inch thick at the thinest part. I'm goung for strenght not weight ( keep in mind it is only a 9 x 9 inch notch).
Rick G.

Ren3 I have been following your project . The guys here thought I had balls, your project is over the top. Truth be told I was never really concerned about the integrity of the finished product. I have been doing fiberglass work at various levels for over 30 years and understand the the capibities of the various products now on the market. The resins and materials now availble when applied properly leave little room for error . You are bang on thought proper preparation is everything.
Rick G.

Is 9"x 9" notch whats on the later model 38?

Auotmobili I believe the top gun notch is 11.5 by 11.5 . In my conversations with lipships in researching the notch for my boat he advised me that he felt that the notch in the gun was bigger than it neede to be and that the small notch would be just as efficient and stronger . The gun notch goes from inner strake to inner strake, the notch I am building falls short of the inner strakes by approx 3 to 4 inches . In this case less is more . Hope that helps.
Rick G.
P.S. where are located and as your name might suggest are you Italian?

Born and raised in Miami, have owned about 8 dif Cigs, my Business is about 5 miles from factory, got a fiberglass buddy that worked there in the 80's, I have owned various Lamborghinis thats where name came from. Factory is called AUTOMOBILI LAMBORGHINI

Rick, you made me think about my first experience with fiberglass. It was in 1974 when I started building model rc hulls from scratch in glass and polyester. I have now done four full size boats, and my latest model is a 73" Cigarette flat deck, done in 2003. I had molds made and sold about 20. I hope that Dave Sikorski gets his boat done so some of the naysayers can become a little more knowedgeable about what is possible. Can you imagine that if people did not push the envelope we would not have or toys to play with. Don Aronow did us a huge favor. Mounted my 3.0L 250 outboard today, and the transom is still intact! Keep the pictures coming.

Rick what year is your Flatdeck? Yours is the 1st Kevlar one I have seen with the cross bracing in the engine room.

Mark

Hi Mark , I like your ride . Mines a 1985 . It was factory rigged as a No. 3 boat . I know now that I removed the wood from the transom . It probably had 420s originally as it appears the exhaust has been relocated at least once .
Mark is yours a Kevlar boat?

I did the trial fit of the insert tonight , I will post pictures tomorrow .
Rick G.

Ren3 I started doing fiberglass repairs on corvettes in the mid 70s. I got so busy I started a corvette restoration shop with a good buddy and great mechanic in 1975 specializing in 1963 to 1967 models . Did that for 2 years then decided to back to school to become the Canadian equivalent of a CPA , been doing that for 30 years . I have always Been a motor head . Still have a correct 1964 corvette coupe and a 1969 camaro pro street I built up from a 300 dollar beater .

It is a sickness I'm sure but it keeps me off the streets.

Rick G.

Mine is glass. KVogt and Fox Hunter are 86s and Kevlar one number apart with out the cross bracing. Ryan Flatdeck 38 is an 86 glass boat with the cross bracing.
Mine came with 400 cyclones and TRS's. can't wait to see your results. I was nervous cutting a hole for the AC pickup in mine. Keep up the good work. Mark

Thanks Mark . I am in the middle of the worst part now, the grinding and prep work. Not looking forward to itching for the next week . Mark I've been to Chicago a couple of times great city , if you ever get up to Toronto be sure to look us up .
Rick G.

Rick, I lived in Rochester, NY. for two and a half years in the mid seventies, and my wife and I loved going up to Toronto for long weekends. We stayed downtown in a very upscale hotel and enjoyed all of the night life, but the best thing was the incredible friendliness of the locals. What a great city. I was the marketing manager for Schlegel Corp. and was asked by the Canadian Mgr. to replace him in Toronto when he was transferred to Europe, but corporate would not let me go. I resigned and left to return to Miami in 1975. That's when I ran into offshore boats. Canada was probably lucky!

Rick your project is going to be a success because you (just like ren3) have a fundamental knowledge based in many years of FRP .......there is no limit to what this "glorious material" (albeit a bit itching) can be reshaped from and altered into........call me crazy, but I love the smell of styrene!! :thankyouthankyou:

Rick G, I would make a mold of Mica set it in gelco it then do all the layups, that way it would hace a smooth finish.

I was at the shop last night and started grinding and did a prelim fit of the notch panel. It will be a slow process of triming and fitting as I want the insert just right before I glass it in place . Automobli I have a reverse plug already made to set the ecterior material in place , as I will agree sanding and grinding upside is a pain .
Scippy I think I am as crazy as you because I like the smell too.
Ren3 , Toronto is a cool place , if you ever get back up here be sure to look me up.
If any one wants to fill in a notch I will make them a really good deal on the piece I cut .
Here are a few more puctures.

If you can not do a mold, you can still get a pretty smooth gel surface by rolling gel coat with Duratec gloss additive with the white foam mini rollers from Home Depot. Other brands are not solvent resitant. The HD rollers will last about 15 minutes. If you sand the final layer of gelcoat within 24 hours, it is very easy to get to a finish ready for compounding. The rolled surface is very comparable to a sprayed surface with fine orange peel.

Great project with a big reward at the end. Nice work.

Ren3 good tip , I will try that on my last exterior coat.
RG.

Dumb question
 

but putting in a notch is essentially like moving the drives back? What are the advantages of a notch?

Great project btw

Similar effect as extension boxes. Allows for higher drive heights and thus go faster.

Mild Thunder right on , the only difference for me is putting boxes on would cost a ton of dough and putting the notch is something I can do myself . ICDEDPPL the advantages are as I stated above the other advantage is helps reduce mid range proposing
RG.