Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

It's ALL opinion except the fact Fountain is the fastest V hull, that's been proven. :cool:

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Just for the record, I'm sure you know White Lighting is not an Apache. Or are you just saying that you thought it was.

I could see how that would happen. :D

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

you are correct, the shear size caught my attention.... :D

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

What is it? Mr. Congeniality (the owner) has referred to it as a "Kevlar 41 Apache with 1100's" at least a dozen times!!!

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

it is referred too as a Legend in the other threads? :drink:

whatever it is, it looks real nice in person..... :D

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

I may be slightly off, but I thought it was a one off made by a guy from the pacific northwest. He spent a lot of money making a splash of an Apache 41 and called it a "Legend". Hull is evidently straight as an arrow, and the boat was built to perfection.
Sweet ride !

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Yes very nice one off, maybe two off . But not an apache
Let me know when its for sale, she wont miss the house :evilb:

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Thanks,I feel lucky to have run onto it. Here is a direct quote from ED COZZI,which can be seen on white lightning coming to LOTO. PG 3.post 44

Just take any 41' APACHE and use it as a plug for your new mold. Change the strakes just a little and cut down the top of the hull just a little.

Leave off the rub rail and lay the boat up in space age laminates. Rig the boat to nearly aircraft grade standards and "viola" you have created White Lightning.

I call it not for sale. I referred to the mercury 1000's as 1100's only because they have been cleaned up a little and if you do your research, Mercury racing only made 200 of these motors and all of them went out the door way above 1000 hp. Timing was set at 36 degrees running 116 fuel with around 12 pounds of boost. We have backed timing down a little looking for longevity since freshened. They honestly make a little under 1100 hoarse at 32 degrees running good fuel so we don't burn a piston with 10 to 12 pounds of boost. They are intercooled also. just trying to play and learn!!!!!

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Thanks,you are correct.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

How about some pics?

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Correct.It is headed to the LOTO house. Making new hoist outher 1 was only 10,000. Did not think it would pick it up!!!!!

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

go to White lightning coming to LOTO couple on thier someone took.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

A partner of the guy that built the boat told me that they bought a Top Gun mold and stretched it. He told me it wasn't splashed from an Apache. It would be interesting to measure the overall differences of the two.

Wherever it came from, its a great boat. I plan to go to LOTO this August and hope to see it. :drink:

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

I heard pretty much the same story. The only difference was that they used a modified a 38 cig hull for a plug and pulled a mold off of that.
Either way, it`s an awsome piece.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

So...does that mean that I can call my boat an APACHE?




















Just kidding!!! :D :drink: :D :drink: :evilb:

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Did Skater do the baking? :eek:

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

So it's really a Cigarette. Kind of pisses on the Apache is the best big water boat position some have taken... :D

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

how so?

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Good question.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

You can pee where ever you want just make sure you dont get any in the boat.:p

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

It`s neither an Apache nor a Cigarette.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Ok travis reed I will grow up for you.
You cant even understand my posts.
I give up.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

More Cigarette than Apache. None the less a cool boat. :evilb:

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

:D

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Honestly from the way I understand WL was put together ..and the way it looks id take it over a cig or apache.. (did I just say that :chimp: )

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Travis any good pics of your rig around?

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

I saw the boat a couple of years ago at the Aqua Toy Store and really liked it. What ever it is or is`nt does`nt matter. It is one cool boat in its own right that I would love to have.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Amen

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

no,honestly it was my 11 yr old boy who loves to get on this site. Your crackhead comment really bothered him more than me. when I found that boat I promised him I would do whatever it took to get it for him. He loves to get on oso as do alot of outher kids I'm told.
Trav

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

correction. I only said it twice after I was asked several times. If you pay close attention I say very little usually. Quiet is always better,unless were talking hoarsepower

Travis Reed

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Its great that the kids are taking an interest in the boats. Check out the "Kids of OSO thread" in the Bilge.

As far as the Cig vs Apache topic goes I'd have to lean more towards the new vs old debate.
I like old heavy boats. They ride better,most of them were "over built" with lots of extra strength. That makes them heavier which also translates to a better ride in rough seas.
Would I take a new Fountain,Cig,Apache,Saber,Chief? Oh yes!
Would I pay the high cost of a new one? No
Old Cigs and Apaches have the "cool factor" built and raced by legends. The somewhat cloudy and controversial history adds to the intrigue. Add the "classic styling" and you have what I would consider the muscle boats.
Compare that to a 66 GTO, LS6 Chevelle,Hemi Cuda,70 1/2 Camaro and on and on.
New boats to me would be the late model Vettes,Vipers,and even the high horsepower Euro cars.
Both have a following but for me I like the "classics".
I'd pick the Apache 41 especially "Warpath" as my favorite. Just for the "cool" factor.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Good analogy.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

I was re-reading your reply and want you to tell me a better bigwater offshore boat built than an apache.

It's not really an opinion that Apache is the best in rough seas it was proven in the 80's and 90's when racing took place in true offshore conditions and Apache (and Cigarette) made a name for themselves by dominating races.

And how do you think Cigarette became the number one most recognizable offshore racing name in the industry? Through their heritage and race record. You say it's opinion, but it is clearly facts. You have to respect the heritage and the history that both companies have gone through.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Travis Reed-

cool I apoligise then Im glad you and your son are into boating together thats awsome man. And I did originaly mean nothing by it.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Apache and Cigarette is like saying Chevy and GMC

Jr Mike

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

I like this thread. :cool:

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

It is entertaining !.... :D

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Here is what my 11 yr old said. " Dad it is a LEGEND in it's own time"

HE pretty smart for 11, what an analogy.

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

Kinda` hard to disagee with that. Like I posted earlier, I`ve seen the boat and think that it`s quite a find. I would love to be its owner.

Roger

Re: Cigarette Vs. Apache
 

It was proven in the 80's not the 90's and that was 20 years ago. Hull technology has come along way since then. Look who domintated the sport in the 90's and later.

Take a new Cig or even the newest Apache and put it up against the 80's boats. No contest.

Cigarette became a recognizable name because there was little competition back then and Don Aronow was the best in the business.

I never said that anything about their history what I said was Fountain was the fastest and holds the record, now that's fact.

Lastly, I think the heritage is fantastic btw. The industry wouldn't be where it is today with out them.