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Cat Killer !

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Old 06-21-2006, 01:49 AM
  #321
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Default Re: Cat Killer !

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Originally Posted by RedDog382
I'm really sorry that you don't get my point Mike. It's not about Fountian or Speed Racer, or whoever else is fastest.

As an ER physician. I have seen all to many people die prematurely.

Speed is an addiction. Six years ago, I lost my best friend due to a tragic accident that involved an addiction of another form. He had beaten that addiction for 18 years, but it killed him in the end. He died alone in front of Subway in a parking lot at sunset in Key West. Life has not been the same since.

Seven years ago, I was the first official to arrive at the scene when the tire came of the CART car at MIS and three people died. When the news reported recussitative efforts were initiated on one individual, that was me at work. I was there when Roger Penske personally spoke at the Critical Incident Stress Debriefing for MIS employees. The man had tears in his eyes as he spoke to his employees because it happened at "his" track. He showed class.

I arrived at Grand Haven Saturday evening last July and my heart sank when I heard the news of the accident. I doubt I could have made a difference if I had been there personally.

I love speed and performance boating, too. But life can change/end in an instant. My point is this ... are egos, bragging rights, and macho BS really worth the risk we take running at these speeds? I would think that you of all people would understand my concern.

It is more concerning to me as a professional that a boat builder would promote this kind of competition in a setting not prepared to deal properly with an accident. There is a time and place for everything, and a open course with recreational boaters and general public is not the place for it.

If someone wants to "crush the fleet", do it on a closed race course where you are not risking other peoples lifes.
RedDog382, OK I get what you are saying in that the speeds these porker run boats especially the open canopy boats are running are getting to fast...yes I kinda have to agree with you there. I wrote the APBA P-Class Rules back in 2000 and I put in the rules that the PX class boats had to be canopied boats and I pushed hard for the P1 boats as well.

As far as the Fountain race boat at the Poker Run...well it probably had to be the safest really fast boat out there, correct?

On the other hand I did not know you are an ER doctor...man....I can't imagine the stuff you see! With out my ER doctor and my ER vascular surgeon I would have died and all the ER nuses and ICU nurses plus my orothpedic surgeon bolting me all back together...those people are my angels! When ever I go see my doctors for check ups from my accident I can't help it but my eyes get all watery...I love those people dearly and they have no idea how many times a week I think of them still to this day.
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:52 AM
  #322
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Default Re: Cat Killer !

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Originally Posted by the duke
I can appreciate your point about life changing in an instant. I've seen a 40 mph death because of a stupid driver action, and I saw Dale Earnhardt die at 180 mph on a race track in a race car. My point is that it can happen to anyone anytime by doing something wrong, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You said that you love speed and performance boats but then when Fountain comes out and says that he was faster than Cats, you say its wrong. You can't have it both ways. If Fountain was wrong in a race boat, then how wrong was Speed racer, and all the other boats that were running at speeds above 150 mph?

I'd say that the race boat was a lot safer place to be at that speed than any other boat on the course. How fast was the SOTW boat going when he made the mistake. My understanding was it was no where near 150. So the speed didn't cause the accident.

What difference does it make that Fountain bragged about his speed? Just because he's a boat builder? If one of the cats had run 200, and bragged about it, everyone would say wow, thats really great. When its printed that Jet Set runs 180+ in an open Cat in Extreme Boats everyone thinks its great. But just because Fountain said it, its not okay.

Again, I appreciate your opinions as you see the worst in the ER, but People have been bragging about there boat speeds for ever, and they always will. Fountain doing it is no better and no worse.
I hate to keep dragging up SOTW but being you mentioned it the story we heard while on the run was the OL THOUGHT he was keeping up or spanking all the big boys in their CATS running between 130-150 when THEY (the cat drivers) started to turn for the first card stop he rocketed by them then realized he was missing the turn,slowed to between 80-100 mph and flipped trying to turn,bad judgement that was costly. Can't compare a new driver in a 140 mph OL to reggie driving a race boat BUT for anyone to say the SAFEST boat to be in during the run we are talking about is a 160 mph fountain v-hull is a stretch at the very least,Smitty
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Old 06-21-2006, 02:10 AM
  #323
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Default Re: Cat Killer !

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Originally Posted by articfriends
I hate to keep dragging up SOTW but being you mentioned it the story we heard while on the run was the OL THOUGHT he was keeping up or spanking all the big boys in their CATS running between 130-150 when THEY (the cat drivers) started to turn for the first card stop he rocketed by them then realized he was missing the turn,slowed to between 80-100 mph and flipped trying to turn,bad judgement that was costly. Can't compare a new driver in a 140 mph OL to reggie driving a race boat BUT for anyone to say the SAFEST boat to be in during the run we are talking about is a 160 mph fountain v-hull is a stretch at the very least,Smitty
I don't know how SOTW got in this either, but what you just posted was the same way I was told it happened also. That was kinda why I used the 40 mph accident I witnessed as an example. Not going as fast as he could, and made a bad driver error.

Notice I said "a lot safer". An enclosed race boat with on board O2 etc etc is safer than most pleasure Cats. I don't know how safe 150 is on the water in ANY boat, and I'll probably never find out.

You know Reggie was not even in the boat right?
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Old 06-21-2006, 02:14 AM
  #324
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Default Re: Cat Killer !

Quote:
Originally Posted by the duke
I can appreciate your point about life changing in an instant. I've seen a 40 mph death because of a stupid driver action, and I saw Dale Earnhardt die at 180 mph on a race track in a race car. My point is that it can happen to anyone anytime by doing something wrong, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You said that you love speed and performance boats but then when Fountain comes out and says that he was faster than Cats, you say its wrong. You can't have it both ways. If Fountain was wrong in a race boat, then how wrong was Speed racer, and all the other boats that were running at speeds above 150 mph?

I'd say that the race boat was a lot safer place to be at that speed than any other boat on the course. How fast was the SOTW boat going when he made the mistake. My understanding was it was no where near 150. So the speed didn't cause the accident.

What difference does it make that Fountain bragged about his speed? Just because he's a boat builder? If one of the cats had run 200, and bragged about it, everyone would say wow, thats really great. When its printed that Jet Set runs 180+ in an open Cat in Extreme Boats everyone thinks its great. But just because Fountain said it, its not okay.

Again, I appreciate your opinions as you see the worst in the ER, but People have been bragging about there boat speeds for ever, and they always will. Fountain doing it is no better and no worse.
I agree with all of your points except speed not being and issue. Honestly, I don't run my boat as hard as I once used to. I have Lifeline jackets now and use my tethers. I have back-up fire extinguishers. Since SOTW, I've tried to set a good example for others. I've even had club members say "hey, thanks for not blowing by me and making me look bad". It's not about that, it's about having fun with friends.

I just don't agree with a prominent professional in the industry promoting, encouraging, and (if I can use the word) taunting people to engage in this kind of competition when there are not provisions made to deal properly with an accident.

I just feel it is irresponsible and not in the best interest of the sport.

Even on race courses with proper rescue resources, how many have people have died:
Jack Storelle
Randy Linebach
Jack Carmondy
Tom Gentry

Coincidentally this past weekend, I spoke to one of the divers initially on the scene at SOTW. They still have not found the missing persons body.

I'm not isolating the specific boat builder or trying to be pissy ... I just hope people will use common sense and avoid another trajedy.
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Old 06-21-2006, 04:36 AM
  #325
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Interesting thread to say the least. I must also say that i am impressed with they way everyone has been respectful of each other and understanding that everyone is entitled to their own opinion of the events.

My .02 has to do with not so much the drivers in the pokerrun, because we all know that 99% of the drivers in the run are qualified and experienced enough to operate their boat at speeds they feel are safe. My worry is about the family of 4 that are out on the water for a day of fishing that most likely has no idea that 40-100 boats may be heading right for them at seriously crazy speeds. I know that the water was very flat that day in Jax, but had there been 4 footers you might not have been able to see a 18-25' runabout until it was to late.

I ran in a much smaller poker run over this last weekend in WI with about 45-55 boats entered. We were warned at the drivers meeting that there was a 300 boat fishing tournament going on that day also. Even though my boat only runs low 80's, and i knew ahead of time to lookout for fishing boats, I still found it very hard to see them in the 5' chop until they were almost to close for comfort. I cannot see how it would be possible to be sure that the "coast was clear" on public waterways.

I have nothing against fountain, and am not really angry with the press release........but please, pokers runs are not a race, and that is clearly what fountain set out to do that day. - Andrew

Last edited by JUKED YOU; 06-21-2006 at 04:38 AM. Reason: spelling as ussual
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Old 06-21-2006, 06:02 AM
  #326
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Default Re: Cat Killer !

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeverMike
Redog, seriously what is your point? You make no sense comparing apples and oranges.... Talk about having class...geesh...bringing up my accident and comparing it to some fast boats in a poker run isTOTALLY classless, my dear friend.
I disagree, if people disagree with you you write that we are jealous stupid and now classless. He called a spade a spade. Yet it's is 100% alright for you to speak out on motorcycles in the name of safety, yet we speak on on poteential detriment to something we enjoy and we are called the above..

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Old 06-21-2006, 07:33 AM
  #327
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Default Re: Cat Killer !

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Originally Posted by TRICK
1. No one was injured at the Jax Poker Run.

2. I'm not aware of any close calls with spectator boats or dangerous incidents. In fact there was little boat traffic other than the poker run participants.

3. I personally enjoyed seeing the new Fountain race boat at the event. I wasn't alone in that respect. It was nice to see some industry personalities. Reggie, Skip, Mike Fiore and the NorTech boys. It all adds color to the event.

4. As a participant in the event, I just don't see all the "safety outrage" being tossed around in this thread. The speculation of outrageous or dangerous driving just didn't happen.

5. If you're point is you think Fountain press release is inappropriate or poor judgment, that's another matter. If insurance issues as a result of the press release are your hot button, again, that might be debatable.

But as far as a race boat at a Poker Run and all the speculation of reckless behavior, this post is just so much hot air.

Score one for the Reggie publicity machine. Once again he has everyone talking. Brand recognition and top of mind awareness are much sought after.
I'll second that ! Good show.
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Old 06-21-2006, 07:36 AM
  #328
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Default Re: Cat Killer !

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Originally Posted by TRICK
5. If you're point is you think Fountain press release is inappropriate or poor judgment, that's another matter. If insurance issues as a result of the press release are your hot button, again, that might be debatable.
Agreed, and I hope for all of our sakes down the road I'm wrong, I would still rather be proactive than reactive...
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Old 06-21-2006, 07:45 AM
  #329
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Default Re: Cat Killer !

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICK
1. No one was injured at the Jax Poker Run.

2. I'm not aware of any close calls with spectator boats or dangerous incidents. In fact there was little boat traffic other than the poker run participants.

3. I personally enjoyed seeing the new Fountain race boat at the event. I wasn't alone in that respect. It was nice to see some industry personalities. Reggie, Skip, Mike Fiore and the NorTech boys. It all adds color to the event.

4. As a participant in the event, I just don't see all the "safety outrage" being tossed around in this thread. The speculation of outrageous or dangerous driving just didn't happen.

5. If you're point is you think Fountain press release is inappropriate or poor judgment, that's another matter. If insurance issues as a result of the press release are your hot button, again, that might be debatable.

But as far as a race boat at a Poker Run and all the speculation of reckless behavior, this post is just so much hot air.

Score one for the Reggie publicity machine. Once again he has everyone talking. Brand recognition and top of mind awareness are much sought after.
Fred, it's nice to see someone else doesn't see it as the sky is falling.

If the sky does fall, I'm sure Reggie will get blamed for that too.
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Old 06-21-2006, 09:16 AM
  #330
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Default Re: Cat Killer !

Quote:
Originally Posted by offshoredrillin
I disagree, if people disagree with you you write that we are jealous stupid and now classless. He called a spade a spade. Yet it's is 100% alright for you to speak out on motorcycles in the name of safety, yet we speak on on poteential detriment to something we enjoy and we are called the above..
Yes for me to speak on motorcycles about safety because a lot of people do not wear the proper safety equipment. Motorcycles are far more dangerous than running a canopied boat at speed...

sorry offshoredrillin you are way off base on this one or trying to compared the guy who hit me while I was riding my motorcycle to Speed Racer and Rio Roses running way out front in a Poker Run!
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