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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by thisistank
(Post 2018035)
I understand what you're saying (and knew you were going to say something along those lines). I guess it boils down to personal opinion.
Does Cigarette build "world champion racing boats"?? Yes, no doubt they have. Does the majority of performance boaters know the racing heritage of Cig? Yes. Do they have a "world champion racing team" right now? No. I think if you have a long and distinguished racing history with a proven company/product (like Cigarette) then you should be able to put it on the side of your boat. I think Apache could put on the side of thier prodect "World Champion Racing Boats". (I can't believe I'm about to say this) Just like I think Fountain has earned the right, though they don't. Go out and win one or two world championships here and there (where people have to question whether you've ever won one because no one remembers!) No, I don't think that counts. Be a dominant force on the offhore circuit (like fountain has in recent years and Cigarette was for many years past) yea, I think that qualifies. I guess it comes down to Simantics, "World Champion Racing Boats"? no doubt. "World Champion Racing Team"? Not right this minute, no. Just my .02 world champion race boats??? Who knows. They claim they do. They definetly build a phenominal performence boat. Don Aronow built world champion race boats.Thats a fact. But does Skip Braver? I kind of see it as a slap in the Don's face. Skip Bravers Cigarette riding on Don Aronows coat tails. I just think if he's gonna make the World Champion claim...he should be backing it up. He certainly doesnt need the sticker on the side,the boats are beautiful. So why write checks your a$$ cant cash? |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Does anybody really buy a boat because it has "world champion" painted or slapped on its hull sides? Does anybody really buy a boat because a scary-fast one-off, and I don't care if it's a Fountain or an Outerlimits, sets the fastest kilo mark?
Cool stuff to talk and brag and argue about, but when it comes time to drop a few hundred thousand bucks or much, much more on a boat, does that kind of stuff close the deal? I don't think so. Current or ancient history, against a mixed fleet or in a stacked deck, the "world champion, offshore racing" stuff is marketing. Sure, Cigarette hasn't won anything in a while. Does anyone doubt that Cigarette makes a great boat, regardless? As for the F-4, someone nailed it in a post very early on. Looks great, built great, runs great by all accounts. But whether or not Sunsation can compete in the same market as Cigarette, Outerlimits or Nor-Tech remains to be seen. I think everyone wishes Sunsation the best, but only time will tell. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
One more thing.... Apache??? When iss the last time they
did anything in racing??? Sorry but times change, technology changes. Your Champ today and loser tommorow. Your only as good as your last win. Nobody but the current champion has the right to make the claim "world Champion" If they want to make the claim,let them do all the work,time,balls and money it takes to win a Championship. Then make your claim. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by epeek
(Post 2018061)
So the NY Jets should call themselves the World
champion NY Jets because they won a superbowl in 1968 ? Sorry. Cig builds a great boat,but IMO you can only call yourself a world champion if you won in that same year. Not 20 years and 6 owners ago. It is a nice looking logo though.See...I kinda look at it differently. Does Cigarette build world champion race boats??? Who knows. They claim they do. They definetly build a phenominal performence boat. Don Aronow built world champion race boats.Thats a fact. But does Skip Braver? I kind of see it as a slap in the Don's face. Skip Bravers Cigarette riding on Don Aronows coat tails. I just think if he's gonna make the World Champion claim...he should be backing it up. He certainly doesnt need the sticker on the side,the boats are beautiful. So why write checks your a$$ cant cash? One more thing.... Apache??? When iss the last time they did anything in racing??? Sorry but times change, technology changes. Your Champ today and loser tommorow. Your only as good as your last win. Nobody but the current champion has the right to make the claim "world Champion" If they want to make the claim,let them do all the work,time,balls and money it takes to win a Championship. Then make your claim. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Mentalpause
(Post 2017903)
One of my favorite new hulls out. I think Pat did an outstanding job on that boat.
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
epeek APACHES can still win checkout www.predator41.com
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by GLH
(Post 2018070)
"Is that one a them thar Cigarette boats?" :eek:
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by thisistank
(Post 2017900)
I think Ciagarettes racing heritage speaks for itself. The "World Champion Race Team" on the side of Cigarettes is well deserved. Cigarette has been in and out of racing and winning world championships longer than anyone else in the game
(though it's been 6 years since they won a world championship). That being said. I would like to see them on the race course or at least help their racers. But I understand why they dont...They don't need too, they have nothing to prove and there's no money in it. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Hey Tank, Deep down Rick really does love Cigs !!
He wont be complaining in 10 days while we are out cruising around So Florida in My Gladiator |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
comparing 288's and 32's to Cigs, OL's and N.T's,,,, this is a joke right ??? If were not talking about the F4 here, than we should be talking about 288's, 32's, Baja's, Fountain's, and Nordics and the like in the same breath...
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Buddy OO
(Post 2017778)
Was on Mentalpauses boat at the Shootout, I thought the boat had some neat features throughout. Sunsation put alot of thought into the ergonomics. very nice Mcloed interior, nice rigging,The hull seemed solid, fit finish was nice and performance for that size of boat was very good, I know John is happy with it, There 28 and 32 are very good boats for the money. Comparing it to the big three is very complicated as each manufacturer has carved it's own niche in the market.Nortech purposely avoids the race thing as they are interested in the high end pleasure market, I would be happy with any of them.
I always notice right away rub rail and inserts, then eye gel work. Walk over the Sundeck, (shoeless of course!) then take a peak how the wiring is supported from the engine compartment up to the panels to get a idea of quality. If I want to see more I go to the factory. The things you easily see seem to be a good judge on how much attention they pay to detail where you can't see, unless ya tour the plant. And I have been there to see the rest. The 28 and 32SS is a big step up from a mass produced Boat and can compete with many others in their size range in terms of fit/finish and mold work. No splices in the rub rail OR insert on their 28' and 32, wiring secured about every 4-6 inches under the engine hatch, loomed where it needs to be, plus the wiring under the panels is secured VERY well and wrap tied every inch. Very neatly done and not some spaggetti bowl job you'll see on the mass produced B boats. Nothing screams cheap to me more then eyeing the gel work of a smaller performance boat for the first time and seeing spliced rubrails, screws holdng windscreens, etc. etc. (sometimes 2-4 splices:rolleyes: ) Don't need to crawl in the nooks and crannys of a boat to know what attention to detail the rest of the boat will have when they are to cheap to spend some money on the rub rail and insert. The leftover splice jobs look like chit. No-one at Sunsation ever claimed to have the best boat out there but their 28 and 32 SS are far from production type build quality. They've gone the extra mile plus on the F-4 to raise some eyebrows. Seeing it in person and learning how the boat was built was very impressive. With world class Customer Service as standard at Sunsation, the orders will keep coming in. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by otis311
(Post 2018288)
Hey Tank, Deep down Rick really does love Cigs !!
He wont be complaining in 10 days while we are out cruising around So Florida in My Gladiator |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by epeek
(Post 2018360)
True...but its winter..gotta start a little trouble. :drink:
I figured as much, You will have to answer to these Cig folks as I introduce them to you at the show and the parties |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
3 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by epeek
(Post 2018360)
True...but its winter..gotta start a little trouble. :drink:
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by 100-Plus
(Post 2018059)
Does anybody really buy a boat because it has "world champion" painted or slapped on its hull sides? Does anybody really buy a boat because a scary-fast one-off, and I don't care if it's a Fountain or an Outerlimits, sets the fastest kilo mark?
Cool stuff to talk and brag and argue about, but when it comes time to drop a few hundred thousand bucks or much, much more on a boat, does that kind of stuff close the deal? I don't think so. Current or ancient history, against a mixed fleet or in a stacked deck, the "world champion, offshore racing" stuff is marketing. Sure, Cigarette hasn't won anything in a while. Does anyone doubt that Cigarette makes a great boat, regardless? As for the F-4, someone nailed it in a post very early on. Looks great, built great, runs great by all accounts. But whether or not Sunsation can compete in the same market as Cigarette, Outerlimits or Nor-Tech remains to be seen. I think everyone wishes Sunsation the best, but only time will tell. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by otis311
(Post 2018286)
Thats right Tank, They need to be out on the Poker Run tour supporting thier customer base
I would like to see this 100 fold over racing....Poker Run support and being visual at poker runs is a HUUUUUGE area of untapped PR/Sales/resources for Cigarette. That is where it's customers are. It's just a shame they don't seem to care. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by otis311
(Post 2018374)
I figured as much, You will have to answer to these Cig folks as I introduce them to you at the show and the parties
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Mentalpause
(Post 2016575)
The base issue with this thread was until the F4, Sunsation never tried to play with these other brands. And never claimed that they were trying.
The F4, in my opinion, is the first attempt by Sunsation until now to play with some of the top tier builders. Knowing what materials are in this boat, which most people here are just speculating, they clearly raised things up several notches. I was with the boat the day Mike Fiori went through it with a fine toothed comb. I know exactly what Mike said to Joe, and POS was NOT it. There are some features you can't find on other boats. Does that mean they will be successful playing at this level...none of us knows that yet. But time will tell, and I know it is a great boat. I am not saying anything about the other boats, I think they are great boats also. But they are off to a good start - they have orders to take them into 2008 so that is not a bad thing. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by drypipetiger
(Post 2017727)
I'm really not sure Dan... Trying to do my homework.
The Sunsation SS caught my eye at the Montreal Boat show and I have no knowledge of the company. So I though I'd inquiry for the heck of it. I definately know what I don't want. That's for sure. :drink: |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Blow-N-Thunder
(Post 2018629)
Will you be at the St. Louis show with ths boat? It looks great and that is coming from a flat deck Black Thunder owner.
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me
(Post 2018650)
Mental's boat will not be at St. Louis (nor will any other F-4) as it is still out East from the AC show. Mental, however, can be found at the Sunsation display from noon on. Swing by and wish him a happy B-Day!
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by drypipetiger
(Post 2017479)
That is incorrect. I inquired about the 32 SS.
The statement was in response to my inquiry into the 32 SS. My inquiry had absolutely nothing to do with the 43... Just for the record. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Blow-N-Thunder
(Post 2018664)
That is a shame because it is a good looking boat and probably a good fit for LOTO.
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me
(Post 2018668)
Drypipe, I made this same ASSumption as I immediately thought no one would be comparing a 32SS to the Big 3 listed. My apologies for helping to drag your thread down that path.
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
blah blah blah
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by otis311
(Post 2018374)
I figured as much, You will have to answer to these Cig folks as I introduce them to you at the show and the parties
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Blow-N-Thunder
(Post 2018629)
Will you be at the St. Louis show with ths boat? It looks great and that is coming from a flat deck Black Thunder owner.
But I will be there Saturday, so I'd be glad to have a cold one with you if we get the chance. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Blow-N-Thunder
(Post 2018664)
That is a shame because it is a good looking boat and probably a good fit for LOTO.
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Okay what 40-43 boats are we comparing again?
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Mentalpause
(Post 2018810)
They could not get the boat from the AC show to St Louis in time for set up. AC just closed last Sunday, and that is when St Louis was setting up. The other two available F4s are on the way to Miami, so there will not be any at St Louis.
But I will be there Saturday, so I'd be glad to have a cold one with you if we get the chance. |
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Blow-N-Thunder
(Post 2019993)
I will stop the Sensation boothand look you up. Beer in hand
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Originally Posted by Mentalpause
(Post 2020395)
Both Holzhauer and Raymonds will have them there. I will be at Holzhauer, it is closer to the beer stand! We will probably get there early, walk around for a couple hours, then hang out and have a few cold ones starting around noon.
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Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me
(Post 2020875)
Am I driving or you?! I could always drive your BMW! :drink:
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