Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Hey guys,

Saw a Sunsation at the Montreal boat show this weekend and decided to learn more... Emailed the company directly and Dave Donchecz, Chief Operating Officer responded.

He said, "Our boat is not the cheapest boat out there but I think it is one of the best built in the market. Our competition is Cigarette,Outerlimits, and Nortech when it comes to an apple to apple comparison."

My first instinct was that they were not comparable... Are they?

Neil

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

I know they have come a long way since their inception, but I don't think that they have quite made it yet. I don't own one, but the ones I looked at seemed to be a good lake boat, but not a big water boat.

I do hear the customer service is very good though.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

They have stepped up to the plate squarely with the 43' F4 hull, which evolved from the 38' PowerPlay.

Time will tell. I think they have 4 hulls so far; (gaining on the PowerPlay originals :D).

I'd like to see how they handle in the rough water (repeatedly).

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

I wouldn't think so, and they do seem to be pretty cheap price wise compared to other builders.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Their F4 is quite a machine from multiplexer to 100 mph runs with 700's. Lots of detail and unlike Cigarette you can call the owners 7 days a week. Company has been around since 1982, Fountain started in 79, Cig in 69, NT the 90's I think.

Phil gets 100 MPH from a 42X with 700's and the Sunsation has a/c fridge/ generator on their 43. 42X has cooler, no a/c no genny and is a smaller cabin boat. Nortech needs 3 625's to hit 100. OL runs faster but has less equipment like Cigarette.

I would talk to them in Miami if your coming down and you will definitely be impressed. Donchez has been in the industry forever and was a Cigarette dealer in Texas in the early 90's so he knows the competition well. The F4 just won the V bottom of the year in Extreme boats magazine this month. I haven't been along for an F4 ride but the 38 PP was a solid riding boat and an excellent base to start with.
Their customer service would be comparable to Phil at Lipship and their rigging, fit in finish are definitely in line with the competition so I think you will be digging this thread up in a few years to comment how they are now recognized with the others listed.

The Miami show will have 2 F4's, one Poker Run edition, one standard both rigged with 700's. I think the MSRP for a 43 with 700's is about 600K with generator/trailer as only options.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

yea rite i have been on all of these boats and a sunsation compared to the other 3 is like comparing a mustang to a ferreri... but what do you expect from the COO of a company... I'm sure Chevy will tell ya that the camaro is a much better car than a Lamborghini

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

The F4 has only been at a few shows so far. Where did you see one? You obviously can't compare a 288 496 Mag boat to a 38 TG or NT 50 but I have been on a 39V and you would get embarrassed by an F4 if comparing apples to apples.

Be fair, check the boats out in Miami, they are across from NT's display.

As far as a Chevy vs a Lamborgini, you may want to rethink that analogy since a 500 HP Z06 can embarrass a Gallardo all day long and it can be serviced locally at any GM dealer.:D

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

i walked all over the red f4 in loto and trust me unless it goes more than 122mph(not keyboard speed please) it wont upset my 39V and i have rode on the 32 ss and a 32?? with 500's and 496's.. i can post some pics of how well sunsations are built if YOU REALLY WANT ME TO....i was there when one spun out at 50 mph and came apart...let me know on those pics:eek:

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Was it an older model that fell apart?

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

2005 32

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Wrong.........................06 SS stepped hull spun and the owner had never had one before and Sunsation more than rectified the problem.

Funny how the stepped bottom boats no matter who the manufacturer is it is never operator error it is always the manufacturer's issue.

ScarabJ never realized that you had a big power 39, seen the boat but thought it was stock power.

What didn't you like about the F4? Multiplexer, power footrests, sculpted sun pad and paint seem to be very popular with the people who have seen them. The 1st one is 600 powered and hit 94 MPH so performance seems right on with the competition.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Not sure of the sizes but I saw a few of them at the AC show last year. I felt the quality wasn't there and the rigging was basic. Although, there were lots of people looking at them because the price was cheap. Also, the 32 looks more like a 28, not sure why..

I haven't seen the 42 but I look forward to running with on one on the ocean next summer..... :p

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

The pics of the 32 that rolled in IL a few seasons ago were already posted on OSO.

Shlt happens, and they ALL BREAK.
Usually due to stupidity and ignorance.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

My friend got a 2004 32' Sunsation last summer with 496's. It is a nice boat and was very fast for the power that it had(84mph). The ride was good till the water got rough. I believe that these boats are very light and that is good for speed but bad for ride quality. Last year i owned a 35' Sonic (76-78mph) and on a normal busy weekend I had no problem keeping up with him because I did not have to back out of the throttle as much as he did. I have not seen the new hull that has been mentioned (F-4) so I can't say anything about how it rides. The Sunsation is a nice boat. I guess it depends on what you are looking for in a boat. I wanted speed and ride quality so I went with an Outerlimits. I don't think i will have to back out of it much this year either.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

I have family that live real close to the factory & I'm sure they are great boat. I think Robbie Kerig does some wiggits for them. But, if you guys don't know the difference between a Vette & a Lambo past the performance numbers I'm thinking you might not be able to tell the difference in a true hand built boat either. I started out wanting to be on Sunsations side untill the Vette vs. Lambo comment was made.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Let me clear a few things up.... I think sunsations are one of the greatest bang for the buck boats!! And I do like them...the owner of the 32 in question had owned a single STEP 288 for a couple of years before tradind it on the 32...it was not his first sunsation..... and it was not driver error!! And yes sunsation took care of it after a long drawn out deal but they did take care of it!
My boat is a #6 speedmaster boat with 900 keith eickerts...
I liked the f4 but in no way is it a ol....maybe closer to a nortech or cig...but not there yet
Also there is a relationship with extream boats and sunsation you know what I'm talking about
I will not post pics it is not my biz so no one ask
James

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Bjlesl,

Lambo's look cool but are full of Audi parts and while quality is better than the 80's they are far from top quality. Corvettes are plastic cars that go fast. I know the difference but think the analogy used previously by SJ was flawed.


SJ,

The owner put about 200 hours on the 04 288 boat with no issues but that was a partial step boat. Full step didn't show up until 05. That 288 was flawless for him and still is for the subsequent owner. 4 months after buying the SS (first true twin stepped hull) there was a spin/ issue with boat.

I can agree with the quality analogy with Cig/ NT but still aiming for OL but they are a low production custom builder (24 boats a year).

You got a nice 39, when are you going to paint it to reflect the power it has? Plain white doesn't do that boat justice.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Reports were that it was VERY cold, and there was some black ice on the lake that attributed to the spin. :D :D :D

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

i dont think you can compare them but i do think they make a great boat. i would say a sunsation is a better built boat compared to baja.comming from a baja owner but i wouldnt go as far as cig or ol.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

My Hot Boat arrived today, and it has an article on the F-4. The price as tested with twin 600s is $565,500 and the weight is 10,000 pounds. Top speed tested was 87.1 mph...

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

You still don't get it & maybe never will. A production car will never compare to a hand built car like wise with boats. Lambo is owned by Audi & uses there full size rollin road wind tunnel in Germany but do not use Audi production parts. Yes Lambo has come along was since the 80's & from the Vettes I've owned to the Ferrari's I currently own EVERY CAR HAS!!

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Agreed!!

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Yeah, I think you summed it up pretty well.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

I agree, naturally this guy is going to be pretty biased. I went to a Donzi dealership to look at a used 28 Pantera and I asked him what do you think is the best 28 rough water boat. Naturally he said Donzi, so I said what is the second best rough water 28 boat, naturally he said Pantera. But what really pissed me off was that he said that Pantera was really more like a copy of a velocity. Could not have been any more far off. You just cannot trust people's opinions who are affiliated with a company.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Really because the last Gallardo I drove had the same V10 engine used in the S8 and had the same A/C controls, blinkers and radio as my wife's 04 A8L so when a 2006 Lambo is recycling parts off my wife's 04 A8 then I tend to think they are slapped together parts bin cars built by a company owned by Volkswagen and started in the tractor business. Do your homework because they seem to be very production to me.

Lambos look cool but are piss poor cars when compared to Ferraris and Turbo Porsches which is why a Z06 is superior. They are better performers that can be serviced locally rather than wannabe exotics that are built with parts off the VW assembly line.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Still fast enough for me to win the bet!

Weight on my F4 is more like 11,500 lbs, we finally weighed it, and that is without fuel etc. Fastest it ran with herings was 92+. I am running 32 Maximus on it now, I like them better overall. It runs close to 90.

For those of you speculating on how it handles, take a ride. PB came out with it on the cover today too, evidently JT and Teague thought it handled just fine. I haven't seen the article yet.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

I was wondering where you have been.....................I've been supporting the brand solo here!:D

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

You definetely won the speed bet, but it did weigh over 10K. :drink: Great looking boat!

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

A ZO6 is superior to a Gallardo, WOW you've just qualified yourself as someone NOT to take advise from... A ZO6 is nothing more than a plastic piece of crap. I guess by your analogies Fountains must blow them all Away.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Performance wise yes.................good spelling on advice BTW.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

BTW, I've been in a few Sunsations and thought they were pretty nice.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

The base issue with this thread was until the F4, Sunsation never tried to play with these other brands. And never claimed that they were trying.

The F4, in my opinion, is the first attempt by Sunsation until now to play with some of the top tier builders. Knowing what materials are in this boat, which most people here are just speculating, they clearly raised things up several notches. I was with the boat the day Mike Fiori went through it with a fine toothed comb. I know exactly what Mike said to Joe, and POS was NOT it.

There are some features you can't find on other boats. Does that mean they will be successful playing at this level...none of us knows that yet. But time will tell, and I know it is a great boat. I am not saying anything about the other boats, I think they are great boats also.

But they are off to a good start - they have orders to take them into 2008 so that is not a bad thing.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

The guy asked about Sunsations and 1/2 the posts are about cars....... :argue:

Never been in a Sunsation but everything I hear is that the factory customer service is excellent.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Tazz, post 17 I acknowledged that "Corvettes were plastic cars that go fast" but there are more to cars (like boats) on how fast they go. If it doesn't start, it won't go fast is my problem with Lambos. They are unreliable and Gallardos are parts bin cars to compete with the V8 Ferraris.

I would agree that Z06's are comparable to Fountains. Fast and Cheap when compared to their peers.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

You have to admit, given the size, weight and beam of the boat, it is a very efficient hull!

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

thank you.. im trading it on a cat so the next person can paint it:D
my intent on this was not to bash sunsation but rather problems with one of the owners in the deal with johns boat it could have been handled better from their standpoint.. I know what happened i know the water (6 inch ripple) and where the drives were..what happened should have not took place period. i was there, its on the water way i live on... 3 miles up from my house we were 5 min behind him..
i could tell a ton more but as long as john is happy now that is not my place.
i have been lucky enough to have been some stuipid speeds on water 136mph in a V 179mph in a cat and have been able to drive and ride in many many different boats.... there is good and bad in all of them i have not been i a perfect boat yet......all that matters is who ever you are you like the one you have..

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

You just had to go their. We had gone 2 whole pages and Fountain wasnt even in this. Some how I just figured it wouldnt be long till the Fountain was brought into this.:D :D

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

I bet it gets better as they tweak it over the next couple years too. It runs exceptionally well in rough water. Got a ton of positive remarks at Destin last fall.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

JS I have to respectfully disagree with about Lambos quality and reliability. I've owned many Ferraris and can tell you they have nothing on Lamborghini. You obviously don't have first hand experience.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

I have a couple of friends with 32's and took a good look at John's F4. They seem to be great boats and from what I have personally seen they have the level of service that these types of toys should. Now Neil, just step up and get the 36 your dying for!!!!! :drink: