Are cats really that dangerous?
05-13-2008 | 08:46 AM
#201
Allergic to Nonsense
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,007
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From: Granite Quarry, NC
I was never quite sure what Larry Smith designed......... since, to be honest, I could never tell the difference between Scarabs and Cigarettes.
05-13-2008 | 08:47 AM
#202
Allergic to Nonsense
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Granite Quarry, NC
05-13-2008 | 09:07 AM
#203
Charter Mod
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,551
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From: E Dock
Man that's the best picture of any boat I've ever had. The guy who shot it is a friend of Zastro's, and offered to print a fullsize for me but stopped returning messages for some reason.
That's the only copy I have and it is too small to enlarge. I was gonna pay too! 
I would rather Mark Smith or someone who ran the run give you the wave size. Seems everyone has their own version of how big water is, so I'd like you to have an unbiased opinion!
05-13-2008 | 09:13 AM
#204
Charter Mod
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,551
Likes: 3
From: E Dock
no........... for many reasons:
1. A single engine cat installation fills the tunnel exit adding compression and disturbing natural airflow. This engine placement will also tend to "trip" the hull upon re-entry after going airborne, perhaps increasing the tendency of the craft to stuff. The lone partial exception to this rule may be the above mentioned Champ boats which have such streamlined lower units and small propellers (see my avatar and prop pix below) that there is not as much disturbance or drag..... but there is still more than a dual application would create.
2. Twin engines allow for counter rotation and, if you spin them out, following the laws of nature and physics as God intended, you will achieve neutral torque and balance from the prop rotation.
3. In twin engine installations the sponsons protect the center section or upper drive components from random blasts of water at speed thereby adding durability to the drives. (when we raced triple outboard cats the center engine durability was always lower than the outboard mounted motors). Again you also reduce drag since most, if not all, of the gearcases' frontal area is "hidden" by the sponsons.
Of course these are just my humble opinions, based on decades of testing and development, rather than the "facts" that are readily available at Poker Run Cocktail parties and in West Coast Cat ads........... or from "State of the Art" Apache fans......
T2x
1. A single engine cat installation fills the tunnel exit adding compression and disturbing natural airflow. This engine placement will also tend to "trip" the hull upon re-entry after going airborne, perhaps increasing the tendency of the craft to stuff. The lone partial exception to this rule may be the above mentioned Champ boats which have such streamlined lower units and small propellers (see my avatar and prop pix below) that there is not as much disturbance or drag..... but there is still more than a dual application would create.
2. Twin engines allow for counter rotation and, if you spin them out, following the laws of nature and physics as God intended, you will achieve neutral torque and balance from the prop rotation.
3. In twin engine installations the sponsons protect the center section or upper drive components from random blasts of water at speed thereby adding durability to the drives. (when we raced triple outboard cats the center engine durability was always lower than the outboard mounted motors). Again you also reduce drag since most, if not all, of the gearcases' frontal area is "hidden" by the sponsons.
Of course these are just my humble opinions, based on decades of testing and development, rather than the "facts" that are readily available at Poker Run Cocktail parties and in West Coast Cat ads........... or from "State of the Art" Apache fans......
T2x
05-13-2008 | 09:20 AM
#205
VIP Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,397
Likes: 402
From: Cape Coral, Florida
Man that's the best picture of any boat I've ever had. The guy who shot it is a friend of Zastro's, and offered to print a fullsize for me but stopped returning messages for some reason. That's the only copy I have and it is too small to enlarge. I was gonna pay too!
I would rather Mark Smith or someone who ran the run give you the wave size. Seems everyone has their own version of how big water is, so I'd like you to have an unbiased opinion!
That's the only copy I have and it is too small to enlarge. I was gonna pay too! I would rather Mark Smith or someone who ran the run give you the wave size. Seems everyone has their own version of how big water is, so I'd like you to have an unbiased opinion!
__________________
Happily retired and living in Heavens waiting room.
Happily retired and living in Heavens waiting room.
05-13-2008 | 09:24 AM
#206
Registered
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,008
Likes: 3
From: Aurora Ontario
Look closer Mikey. I have but two prop blades and part of a skeg in the water. Thats it. No bullet in the water at all.
Hey Rich, notice how the center pod is much shorter than the sponsons? It runs on the outsides only once at speed unlike an American Offshore 26 or Talon 25 etc which ride on the center and use the sponsons as training wheels
05-13-2008 | 09:59 AM
#207
SORE MEMBER
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,984
Likes: 2
From: 29°50'49.74"N 95° 5'17.55"W.......TEXAS
Nope and nope........
You have to see a Champ boat turn to believe it.........I speak from first hand racing experience in the cockpit.......the G's are indescribable.
From the Champ Boat website.........
"High Speed Turns and Pure Excitement
High speeds, sharp turns and constant action
• Due to the shape of their tunnel hulls, Champ Boats are able to turn almost instantaneously
• Incurring more "G" forces than any other racing machine on earth
• Enables them to race close to river banks and lake shores
• Provides excellent spectator viewing
Champ Class (F1)
• Nearly identical to the Formula 1 machines raced internationally on the UIM circuit
• Champ Boats are 17 feet long and weigh just 1,150 pounds with driver
• 380-horsepower engines enable them to reach speeds of 140 miles per hour "
T2x
You have to see a Champ boat turn to believe it.........I speak from first hand racing experience in the cockpit.......the G's are indescribable.
From the Champ Boat website.........
"High Speed Turns and Pure Excitement
High speeds, sharp turns and constant action
• Due to the shape of their tunnel hulls, Champ Boats are able to turn almost instantaneously
• Incurring more "G" forces than any other racing machine on earth
• Enables them to race close to river banks and lake shores
• Provides excellent spectator viewing
Champ Class (F1)
• Nearly identical to the Formula 1 machines raced internationally on the UIM circuit
• Champ Boats are 17 feet long and weigh just 1,150 pounds with driver
• 380-horsepower engines enable them to reach speeds of 140 miles per hour "
T2x
I read that but have not seen any figures,
Here is what they are currently claiming for f-1 cars.
around 900hp in a 1334lb chassis
They accelerate at 1.45g, brake at up to 6g's and corner at
2g at 70mph, 3g at 130 and 5-6g at 190
Turn 8 at the Istanbul Park circuit, a 190° relatively tight 4-apex corner, in which the cars maintain speeds between 265 km/h (165 mph) and 285 km/h (in 2006) and experience between 4.5g and 5.5g for 7 seconds - the longest sustained hard cornering in Formula 1.
Reno air racers unlimited class planes are often equipped for g-suits as some planes are capable of extreme g forces.
Obviously the champ boats are very spectacular and presumably utilize the very latest in modern data-logging, I would like to see the numbers that back up their claim
BTW the jet sprinters down under claim the following
Performance
Acceleration 2G’s force 0 to 120 kph (0 to 75 mph) in 2.3 seconds
Cornering 5 to 6 G’s of cornering force
From 900-1200 HP in a 1200lb boat
Last edited by Wobble; 05-13-2008 at 10:46 AM. Reason: missed info and typo
05-13-2008 | 10:45 AM
#209
Allergic to Nonsense
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,007
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From: Granite Quarry, NC
It depends, are you standing still or moving? You can turn tighter faster on one leg.
I'm glad we're past the arguing stage. We're into the group hug, slapping each other on the back, remember the good ole' days stage. A question was asked that wasn't answered. Can a cat turn like a vee? I agree totally that a Champ boat will out turn a 47 Apache. What about size for size, weight for weight?
I've never been in a cat and am curious.
I'm glad we're past the arguing stage. We're into the group hug, slapping each other on the back, remember the good ole' days stage. A question was asked that wasn't answered. Can a cat turn like a vee? I agree totally that a Champ boat will out turn a 47 Apache. What about size for size, weight for weight?
I've never been in a cat and am curious.
.In both hull types, I wouldn't suggest continual race turns in a chop if the drives are spinning in......
T2x
05-13-2008 | 10:47 AM
#210
Allergic to Nonsense
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,007
Likes: 21
From: Granite Quarry, NC
T2x
