Boy that's different than I was quoted. A 26 daytona with a 496ho is about an 80 MPH boat, and it was between 3 and 4K plus the tres course.

Never even came close to $1000 on my 28 pantera that ran close to that. 30 years of boating, never a claim, married with children, 760 credit scores, last speeding ticket was 15 years ago.

You must have a source other than Merkel.

Absolutely. But when you're hanging it out on the edge, $hit happens.

I saw just as many(if not more) Vees as Cats wreck when I was racing. It's just not a great thing to do in ANY boat.

Does just the prop spray from a boat in front of you cause a deep V to react that violently?

Actually, it is the reverse. The prop spray will lift a cat, but a long rooster will drive a Vee's bow down from weight. The Cat will tend to go straight when this happens, but a Vee will "hunt" for a new area and grab or spin.

Same when a Helo would get real low over us. I would get soooo pissed.

I don't remember who the source was now, and, this information that was passed along to me by the agent after the shock of seeing what a 32 Skater was going to cost me to insure.:readinghelp:

Michael

Yeah......that must have been one of those left coast boats that T2x was talkin about.......and inexperianced drivers too. Damn poker runners! :D :party-smiley-048::party-smiley-048:

Left coast of Europe. :evilb:

Ok,
The best powerboats make poor airplanes or submarines!

I remember a picture of Team Victory, a blue cat flying upside down. It was incredible!

LOL....oh yeah! And one time, at band camp......

Check this out!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tmhRjT...eature=related

worldwide marine ins cut my 32 skater bill in half vs markel

Check your policies! Ask anyone who has done the course and they will tell you it was well worth it. But dont be fooled by lower rates on boats that some companies dont cover.

What legal race class in the past were both the 30 Shadow and the 36 Cig competitors? Sport, Mod, Open? Can not recall.

Cats ride smoother than vees..to the point that you need to stand up in a small vee or risk injuring your back...versus cats that all have seats........ a 24 Skater has much less impact than a 24 vee in racing conditions.......

Cats slap up to about 40 or 50 mph, which while fast for a vee, is a "transition speed for cats

When you think about only five things have changed in performance boating since the 80's and only one is significant.

1. Hering CNC's prop technology...... significant.

2. Beaks............insignificant

3. Bling............. ditto

4. Misplaced Bravado.....ditto

5. The internet.............. :p

T2x

A vee couldn't go that fast.............

certainly not an Apache......... and I love Apaches.

Bottom line watch all of the big water offshore races after 1981....... cats have dominated.

T2x
The race in your video was flat calm.....very high trim, high rake speed props, and one hull "spilled air" under the other.

El Boss ....... 36 Cig Sport class.... 30 Shadow Sport class. The owner, Willie Diaz, had both and chose the Shadow for the entire 1982 season...rough or calm...and beat a number of 36 Cigarettes (White Heat, etc).

P.S. with identical aluminum Eickhert engines the cat was 36 mph faster

Maxon 30' Chris Cat.....Open class 1985-86.......... against various Cigarettes............. and Apaches.

Various modified Chris cats and Shadows..... versus Wild Turkey 36' Modified Cigarette.


etc, etc, etc,

Nice try.......... Wrong debate:p

T2x

Thanks

Are you guys aware T2x has an entire dvd series adressing this issue? I believe it's entitled "Cats conquer offshore" and it's excellent ! Should be required viewing for anyone interested in this topic !!:D

The only other carrier besides Markel that I know of is American Reliable and they will insure a cat...

I have mine with them but they typically won't insure a a first time cat owner and you still need to have gone through and passed a course like Tres' offers, which is well worth the investment in my opinion.

All said and done it was still around $5600.00 with a 6 month lay-up, designated driver policy and inland waterway's only, not including Tres's course... Even if you could find someone else to write the policy at a lower premium they probably wouldn't cover what you need if there was a claim.

In the late 80s I ran a 30 Chris Cat . We consistently beat the 41 Apaches , Gigarettes , 12 meters etc . in any water conditions .
In 1990 at Virginia beach we placed second in nasty water to a big V hull and trailed by only 30 seconds , with a snapped off trim hose I might add . Ask any throttleman how hard that is , talk about feathering the throttles .
The cat / v debate will never end . Once I got in the cat I never looked back . To each his own and respect for all .
As far as danger is concerned let's face it speed kills , the faster you go , the faster you may go .

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but I think there is probably more to this subject, than just one riding better than another. I think the type of water has a lot to do how each hull type is going to respond. Even the Skater guys say you really need a 36 for the slop we have here in So. Cal.

Michael

How can those of us who didn't own a cat before the "no first-timers" rule came into effect buy a cat? The logic of that rule means that when all the long-time cat owners have died or quit cats will be uninsurable (because all owners will then be first-timers).

Stop by sometime. We'll pop in a couple of my old Needle Nose video tapes and you can watch the Apaches motoring past all the cats in heavy water.

Are you aware that it was T2x who was flying in the helicopter and narrating those old Needle Nose Video tapes ? See what he has to say on this topic in his previous posts !:D :party-smiley-004:

Yes, I do. I was at many of those races as well.

Like I said, you can come and watch the tapes. When it was really rough, the big vees were passing cats. Did the cats blow past on the inlet legs of the course- sure.

Memories are selective...... but, in truth the 41 Apache with Bobby Saccenti on throttles ran one of the greatest rough water legs ever...as seen all over the web. However, once the Chris Cats, Jaguars and 40' Skaters hit the scene..... things changed dramatically and I have to say the best rough water performance I ever saw.....and I saw a LOT...... was the Spirit of Norway at Ocean City Maryland in small craft warning conditions eating the 46' Apache "Tweets Revenge" for breakfast.

What made that performance such a slam dunk was the fact that the Skater was so much smaller than the Apache.

I also remember the great Bobby Idoni, in Lorne Liebel's Apache CAT....running heads up with Billy Martin in an Aluminum CUV vee bottom (one of the best rough water hulls ever) in stormy seas on Lake MIchigan.

While there may still be a debate in some minds, to me the discussion ended regarding cats and rough water in the early 80's.

The only caveat, I have, regards the West Coast cats, which came on the scene in the early to mid 90's and barrel rolled, stuffed, and slogged there way along, and generally put the progress that other cat builders (Cougars, Shadows, Skaters, Jaguar, etc) made back at least 20 years. and while they fill the pages of our major magazines seemingly every month, they are still the same combination of awkward lines, poor forward entry and faulty aero and hydro dynamics that characterized them from day one.

T2x

T2x , do you remember the year on that one? (Ocen City, MD) We ran there in 92 with us offshore and it sounds like the same race . Remember the whiplash 28 skater ?

I will check with Darren on the year as he has a mental database that makes me look like a piker........

Of course I remember Whiplash, and if you were out in that huge water in a 28 foot cat, you prove my point even more.

T2x

You just have to start small. My first cat was a 18' Mirage Jaguar. Those little boats really make you understand trim, etc. From there HTM, Spectre...

Well, if you had bought a Skater when I started urging people to do so, you wouldn't have this problem. Now all of the "Vees are best" crowd....may be stuck with them:p:p:p

T2x........ full of sympathy today.:D:D

I'm sure that Skater,Nor-tech, Eliminator, DCB and anyone that wants to sell cats appreciate your sympathy to their shrinking market. :(

my 26 ultra shadow(similar hull to a 26 daytona) with 525 runs me a little over 1300 a year, full coverage, no layup with Markel. Clean record, no claims, 1st cat for me but 20+ years of boat exp. I did take the Tres Martin class but it wasn't required and I took it 6 months after I already had the insurance. I figured the education was worth it alone.

The cat market isn't the only one that is shrinking..... but I have enough sympathy to go around.

T2x

absolutely not...i lost an engine in my 30 spectre at just over 90 mph...reminded me off getting a blow out in a car...slow and easy no abrubt moves and alls well...in my case anyway

Wow. That sounds incredibly low for your first cat.

I keep seeing about $4000 after Tres Martin class, and that's with an HO in a 26 foot cat. I wonder if it would be worth buying a 26 with 6.2 just to get "cat experience" and then swap the motor when insurance won't be more than the boat payment.

Kemosabe is the best, when you see the best 40' Skater go by Kemosabe in those conditions, then it is case closed. Truthfully, I don't think the Skater can do it. At least we have something to look forward to.

Same here, Dean and I lost an engine racing in Cambridge last year at a buck five and the boat just mildly pulled to the stbd side and slowed. Nothing abrupt at all. 30 foot AMT which is now predator, great handling boat.