Where is the Cigarette Market at ??
 

I was looking at Late model Cigarrette Top Gun's....I see the market is off....Where's the market at?????

Russia and Europe....

The dollar is cheap right now.

Not anymore.. it used to be at 1.55 but has come up to 1.3 to Euro.
the market is where the moneys at and Cigarette has a dealer in Moscow for example, the biggest and most expensive town in the world as we speak.

Russians and those in Europe that can afford don´t think about how cheap something is ..it has to be quality and heritage in it too.
Cigarettes have it and then some custom builders like Pantera and McManus, why not even Saber.

Quality/Russia , yea, sure.
ed

Interesting question. WHERE is the high performance market for ANY of these boats? Where are the Skaters, Outerlimits and NorTechs selling? Or are they?

there is no market.... everything is dead in the water

maybe some custom factory direct orders to cig skater mti NT and OL but id bet thats it....

production stuff and dealers or gonna be colapsing in the new year... go look in the classifieds at new in stock production stuff....

when that stuff gets liquidated... that will set new market values... and people who have boats r gonna be sicker than when they look at there portfolios... cause once it happens the prices wont go back up... they r depreciating assets.... and now because of the default rate(which is bigger than u guys can imagine, 30,000 at key bank alone) lenders r few and far between.... and unlike the auto industry, a boat is not a neccesity its a luxury no one is contemplating now... or at least not enough to sustain dozens of production run manufacturers


sorry for gloom and doom but lets be realistic

Quality/ American products... yea sure...just look at the Big3.
I have a 82 Z/28, a 1970 SS396, A 1965 GranSport convertible and a C4 Coupe and I´ve had prolly a Dozen other US cars ...so I know what I´m talking about.

I Said Russians have buying power and they know how to demand quality. I´m in a raceteam that has made Audis as Racecars for Russians..they didn´t want Daewoo/Chevrolets for some reason.

2 NorTech Cats came after a 2 year battle to get them compliant with our regulations over here.

Seems other builders ain´t that keen to go thru the bureocracy to get their products globally compliant sot down the prolly go.
Fountains have stepped up to the plate so does Cigarette and Donzi.
Outerlimits prolly will follow.
skater ..maybe not I think they go the raceboat route instead and gets an exemption.

Volvo Trucks have closed for one Month Globally... and the US plant alltogether. their sales had at the last quarter plummeted 99,7% all the other Truck makes are thinking of closings too.
American Trucks companies are all owned by Europeans makes. So they will get the Ax first as their products ain´t globally sellable.

Chrysler has shut down alltogether at least for a while, Daimler thought about closing it alltogether years ago.

I´ts about time american boatcompanies start to think global as at least now they have the upper hand at the offshore type markets and when you think globall you can´t be prejudiced...because money Talks and Bull**** runs a Marathon.
Would´ve thought that USA would´ve woken up sooner than late to realize all their assets are owned abroad at least then Americans could´ve had some say in the decisions.
Now look at Flint and Detroit nowadays..a Damn shame IMO that so many american live Below the poverty level even for a 3rd world country.

I hope and Wish none this affects the powerboat companies and they can get over this especially those making a comeback or sticking to the Heritage but It certainly looks bad..even the sailboat segment is sitting still.

Well said Teddy.

I pity people who consider cars like Audi's to be something
exceptional.

Pesky Varmint

Mikey FIN,
My comment regarding quality was towards your saying the Russians wanting quality products. How would they know quality ?
ed

hey Lada's are great cars

Boat Market
 

As a marine surveyor in south Florida I see the changes first. I have surveyed more sailboats in the past 6 months than I did in the past 2 years. Most all my powerboat/yacht buyers are from overseas. Even with the dollar gettting stronger the overseas buyers are still able to get great deals in south Florida. Boats going overseas are not for the most part performance boats. Bank repo boat numbers are UP every week. The only other thing that is up in the marine industry is crime and I am now selling and installing GPS Tracking Systems that many insurance companies are going to make mandatory this next year.

How did they get to the space first ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceflight

Seems you diss Russian intellect also here which is far more world known and sofisticated than you prolly can imagine.
Think that russians also invented the Laser among other things and that has to do something with a need for precision.

Regarding quality how does Russians now quality..have you ever heard of a goldsmith named Fabergé ... very popular among the blue-blooded Russians..

You might find also St:Petersburg quite overwhelming and it´s history an the Russian women...
Now you ask how do they know quality...because they ain´t stupid and getting bankcrupt as a nation as we speak.

and when it comes to airplanes. well I think they manage to hold their own regarding anything US has to offer.
Now Sikorsky did invent the Helicopter for example...

Boat Market
 

As a marine surveyor in south Florida I see the changes first. I have surveyed more sailboats in the past 6 months than I did in the past 2 years. Most all my powerboat/yacht buyers are from overseas. Even with the dollar gettting stronger the overseas buyers are still able to get great deals in south Florida. Boats going overseas are not for the most part performance boats. Bank repo boat numbers are UP every week. The only other thing that is up in the marine industry is crime and I am now selling and installing GPS Tracking Systems that many insurance companies are going to make mandatory this next year.

OT.
Because you don´t know better only...
Now Tell me of a Single Grand Prix Win for example that some US automaker has won ?
And thats something _Audi ain´t even close to being dominant in..
Beating Corvettes and others for Breakfast is... even with a diesel.
From being Banned from Nascar to dominating Pikes Peak, IMSA GTO and WRC B-Group to Winning LeMans ( with a diesel even..)

Unfair Advantage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rtZ0...eature=related

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/n...eply&p=2762881

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hskT...eature=related

Vorsprung durch technik.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VnC1chsGM8

OT
You´d know..GM owned company...just like Daewoo is a Chevrolet nowadays and whats that plant in China making somekinda "luxury cars" oohhh ..Buick Electras.
Hell I´m the starter of a Buick owners club back in 1984 over here and I think Dunbars last wish wasn´t at all that Buicks are made in China or outside Flint for the Matter.
So no wonder Hardcore GS owners start to look at Audis nowadays.
Keep up the Good work outsourcing U.S.A.

thenagain it has happened also before in boating.
Chris Craft, Cigarette, Magnum and Baja have all had production outside US.

I might be needing your services sometime soon...:grinser010:

Well I bought!!! Piss on the na sayers. Now if the weather and work will give me a window I will have that bad boy in my toybox!!
Quinlan

1976 Australian GP
Penske-Ford
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Austrian_Grand_Prix

1967 Belgian GP
Eagle-Weslake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Belgian_Grand_Prix

1921 French GP
Duesenberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Anthony_Murphy

hell the whole field was ford.... lol

Dude that space thing was the enslaved German scientist’s that they caught after WW11 But Again we walked on the moon and pulled a sunken soviet sub off the ocean floor 17,000 plus feet down;

Christ the Soviet sonar could not even see it! BTW That Bear bomber is traceable to our B-29 bombers Ole Stalin “Found” and copied. Did I say Stalin we should have let the Germans Kill him instead of supporting that Commie bastard.

What was the Russian car popped of a Packard ?? The AK-47 try a German MP-44… I will put our aerospace companies up against anything they got! I guess you heard of the A-12 and the SR-71 our F-22 they have nothing close.

can we get back how the boat market is in the toilet?:grinser010:

God willing things will start moving this spring.

To my knowledge, Bajas were never built outside of Bucyrus Ohio (I know NC now) and certainly not outside the USA . Please enlighten me here.

Nothing is going to move for a few years. We still have alot of banks that need to get through the 5 and 7 year ARM's that are coming due and people either need to refinance or eat it !! We have a long way to go...unfortunatley

I try to stay positive even in these times.

So, what currently made cars do you consider exceptional?

While things are terribly slow, it is not dead. A 46 Rough Rider just sold which allowed a 42 Tiger to be sold as well. A few big power cats (3-4) are closing soon. Some other positive surprises for 2009 are coming.

Never give up. Remember "Persistence and determination"

Happy Holidays....

Hmmm doesn´t sound german at all...M.S.Khomyakov or Georgi Grechko...
Guess Somebody has altered your History education.
Must be the same guy who told that Soviets/Allies liberated Europe... but forgot to mention what happened afterwards and how people really felt when the Allied Red Army advanced... even in Russia people jumped over to the other side and hated them by millions.

Soviets at least punished those they cought so they took a stand even after the war so have to gice credit for them about "Staying on the course...." Remember that phrase :grinser010:



Stop Crying about Christ will ya.
Well should coulda But DIDN´t..you were their Allies and shaking their hands smiling (and licking) at the time.

Regarding designes and tracable off course they are..everything is, wake UP.
Just look at powerboats and their history.
But your mistaking the Bear for The Bull.
The Bear is a bigger and faster plus more advanced plane and has little in common with B-29

Hindsight is a bless ain´t it.

My Both grandfathers hated Stalin and Commies To their Last breath and they got wounded and Fought against them, protecting their ATTACKED Homeland.
No-one in Europe wanted Russians on their soil, but you helped them in that.
A small history lesson for you.
So a Big thank you.
* Don´t GET ME STARTED ON THIS...anymore.
I often wonder how Stupid the U.S. Central "Intelligence"/ foreign policy REALLY is because there´s hasn´t been nothing but failures in their efforts.
And the U.S. Citizen pays the price among others.
So no wonder Americans are considered not that bright in general. Even in Russia or China.



Well, have to inform you all Russian cars are licensed, it´s cheper to occupy a country ( with free ammo and guns) and steal the factories so actually who did it benefit and who shot itself on the leg ?

Afterwards they have also built mainly licensed cars.

AK-47 and STG 44 have nothing in common not even the caliber.
I guess you have loaded assembled and fired both of them ?
I have and AK47´s derivate RK62 and its different versions to boot.

What was the subsonic Ruskies shot down ?
A Rockband has a similar name...

And you´re saying they have nothing even close...well close enough to take one down and end the program right there.
The main goal with usually to GETITDONE in those circles.
Oh boy here we go with the Pissing contest again, unfortunately.
Have a Molotov Cocktail...:drink:

Back to topic.

I wish the Spring will bring up the markets too and it looks the banks has to bite the bullet and open their purses by lowering the interests and look at the big picture, if they don´t everything will halt to stand still fast. If they can´t and have overcredited then some other nation has U.S.A by the balls, China as we speak as that´s whose money U.S. Banks has loaned out.

As we speak the one and only quality products that I can think of and is Exportable is powerboats from U.S.A. If the make in question is a quality one that is.


* Think Global and that there´s competition too out there, the Stars And Stripes ain´t much to go for nowadays.
It was like 20-30yrs ago but those days are Sadly over or was I just young and narrowminded back then ?

In one word : SISU

The last one is an automaker.
But is that all if yes Then I don´t wonder why the Big3 can´t keep up anymore.

And yes the fields was justabout all Ford Cosworth DFV´s, Great Britain that is.
Just like Ford GT40 is a Lola design and build.
The only american piece is the engine in them. Just like any kitcar because of the cheapness of one.
Now Remeber U.S.A is known mainly of massproduction.
In that aspect Fountain will be the only powerboat builder with a future ???
NOOOOOOOOO.......

What's the difference between me in my Caliber and the
guy next to me in his (insert anything, Ford, Chevy , Toyota, Mercedes
BMW, etc. etc.....)?

I know my car is a POS.

All cars pretty much suck nowadays. Boring, flimsy, pieces of plastic and tin that try to placate people with good handling and decent acceleration.

30 years ago a buddy and I were debating cars (I had a Datsun
280Z at that time, he had a 68 Pontiac) and he made the comment
that "all cars have frames". I tried to correct him and point out that
many, many cars have unit bodies. He repeated: "ALL CARS have frames".

Years later, I realize he was right.

My serious vehicles aren't cars and all of them have frames.

Pesky Varmint

The race after this... No Wonder no Ferraris ..who took the makes title anyway.

A racecar builder not an automaker and retired 9/11 races... one win one third on the others.

Bingo.

But if I don´t even remember something like this one makes think how many do in U.S. or globally ?
It´s about time the tables get cleaned for the Big3.

I bet In my racetema who has done WRC, FIA GT, WTCC,STW, Formula Fords etc I´m the only one Now who knows this Trivia.
And our team is well known nowadays affiliated with Ingolstadt and St.Agata...

Good for you - at least you'll get to use it and enjoy yourself.

When you load it up with family and friends and put the throttles forward you sure as hell won't care what you paid for it....

This is going to get good now... :food-smiley-007:

Talk to us more about Baja's and the other boats being made outside the US.

Wake up call.

Yes my own car is like that boring that is but not squaky.
... but my 1970 SS396 is ... all plastic squaky flimsy etc. IMO.
The 65 GS ain´t with it´s steel dash etc.
My buddys 1970 GS455 Stage1 convertible is.
So was my 1961 Corvette.
and my 86...
and the Trans Am etc etc...

In fact all US made Cars I´ve had ..even quite new ones have been like that. Utter piles of squaky plastic rubbish even the Cadillac STSes and their leather seats..what are they made of..buffalo ass skin or?

But the Audis´I have driven havefine leather carbon and wood allover..
The Brand new Jaguar V12 XJ-S was like that too back in the day we had, one of 11 XJ´s together.
So was the MB 560SEC.
And all built like vaults, just to name a few


I coulda been your friend..ready ax the roof of your datsun.
My Wife had a brand new 280ZX.
But a Firebird doesn´t have a frame.. or any other Ponycar or Muscle Mopar.
So what Pontiac was he stuck with ?

And I´m so tired of all these POS in my garage....

My serious have 12 point rollcages..all 3 of them.

The one I work with do have a Frame ( not the flimsy one US rigs do) but it pulls also 130Klbs totals daily.

All 280 Force and Under sold in Europe was built of all the places in the 80´s in Spain not a country known exactly of precision or craftmanship but Manana.

Heres a Vid of one coming home after an offshore race...at 3.25 onwards.. the black #344.
My buddies owned it later on...