Like Tree0Likes

Outerlimits rolled in Norway?

Reply
Old 06-09-2009, 12:16 PM
  #41
VIP Member
VIP Member
 
BraceYourself's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Oh
Posts: 1,030
Default

Wouldn't you say that the percentage of accidents today is much less then ten years ago based on the number of boats. Seems that with todays technology it is much easier to operate and enjoy boating and is why many more people own boats.
BraceYourself is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2009, 12:35 PM
  #42
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraceYourself View Post
Wouldn't you say that the percentage of accidents today is much less then ten years ago based on the number of boats. Seems that with todays technology it is much easier to operate and enjoy boating and is why many more people own boats.

No way. Ten years ago a stock 1999/2000 Top Gun flat bottom wouldn't break 75 mph and really couldn't get out of control. Now same boat runs 85-88 with 525's and can very easily spin out/roll with the advent of step bottoms.

Go back 20 years and a Top Gun ran closer to 60.....

Today's technology allows a boat to go significantly faster than ever before. Your 46 RR is 115++ mph boat, twenty years ago race boats of that size/v bottom would struggle to do it once never mind all season long. Today more people are on the water with faster/ more complicated equipment and are getting banged up.

How many non race events have you read about where a new owner/operator of a step bottom went swimming with all their crew members?
Jupiter Sunsation is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2009, 01:28 PM
  #43
VIP Member
VIP Member
 
BraceYourself's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Oh
Posts: 1,030
Default

What I'm saying is lets say ten years ago, out of 100 boats on a lake there was one accident . Today same lake has 1000 boats and there are 5 accidents. All in all its a lower percentage.

I agree technology allows people to get out of their ability levels very easily. I started with a 39 old school 900hp 80 mph cig and am glad I did.

What I would be interested in is lets say Worldwide Marine ten years ago wrote 500 policys for insurance and today write 10,000. They would look at accidents and what it's costing them.

I litteraly just wrote the check for my cigarettes renewal and it dropped $2,000. To me that tells me that I'm either a safer driver or the risk is not as high as a year ago. I would guess a little bit of both.
BraceYourself is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2009, 01:34 PM
  #44
Registered
 
dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: cleveland
My Boats: boatless... with money in the bank!!
Posts: 5,798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLee View Post
and there you have it.


I'll take the ejection seat.

thats why i possed and one of the reasons i passed on a dragon with the semi canopy.... if u dont wear ur belt ur gonna get hurt but no system if ur upside down ur gonna drown
dreamer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2009, 01:37 PM
  #45
Registered
 
dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: cleveland
My Boats: boatless... with money in the bank!!
Posts: 5,798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraceYourself View Post
What I'm saying is lets say ten years ago, out of 100 boats on a lake there was one accident . Today same lake has 1000 boats and there are 5 accidents. All in all its a lower percentage.

.

id say that percentage increase is way off... if it was right id own a marina... and instead i dont and marinas are failing allover...

also of the new boat all r fater and ARE more dangerous
dreamer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2009, 09:21 PM
  #46
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Smarty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Pitman, NJ
My Boats: Boatless
Posts: 2,267
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatme View Post
Even when the Manufacturers make improvements (Which they all have) To use your words "here comes the lawyers, and the lawsuits"

My partner in our event, owns a performance boat insurance company He will tell you that the insurance companies are fully aware and keep an eye on all these web sites

I think everyone in the industry is fully aware. We as promoters have had safety summits, and the manufacturers are always working for a better safer product

But ridicules lawsuits are what has taken the sport down. the insurance companies know if you get a nick on your boat at an event someone is going to want to sue

Thus, at the end of the road in all of this, It can be argued that everyone is protecting themselves from the legal system. No offence to you, but it is quite honestly, the lawyers that are slowly ending this sport for many people.

Smarty, I am happy to discuss it with you at any time. It would be nice to have a lawyer on the side of promoting the sport not tearing it apart.
Marc
Maybe that would be a nice legal niche for me, defending the accused in these specific (high performance boat accidents) suits, I would need to belly up with the insurance companies and be their go-to legal guy for performance boating defense work. I am definitely not the guy who will be on the plaintiff's side in these accidents, for my own selfish reasons (I like going fast!)

Stephen R. Jones
Smarty is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2009, 09:59 PM
  #47
Registered
 
Whipple Charged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fresno, CA, 93722, USA
My Boats: Engine, speed, powerboats, Outerlimits SV43 with Whipple 1375SCI's
Posts: 1,436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty View Post
I want to know more about this accident;

1. Why did the top of the boat delaminate? Design defect? Manufacturing defect? This is not an acceptable answer - it is an epoxy boat (or a vinylester resin boat) that hit a wave at 130mph+ and rolled. Design should be made for this type of occurrence, it is not the first roll with an Outerlimits boat.

2. This is not a negative on Outerlimits, I wish I could own one; Skater has had boat-owner operation deaths too, but I think Skater builds the safest and best catamaran in the market place today. I know what a Products Liabiltiy attorney would say, and it isn't pretty, and I am not getting into a legal debate on product design (is there a more feasible safe design?), and assumption of risk.

2. Was the driver trained to operate an boat of this size, power, and speed before purchase? After purchase? Other than writing the big check, what are the qualifications for the purchaser/operator? Safe boating course? Performance boating school? How much seat time prior to the accident? Ect.

These are the questions that will be asked of any manufacturer in the near future, if not right now, that will kill offshore performance boating as we know it due to personal injury lawyers, product liability lawyers --- due to death and injury when operating high-performance boats.

I am a lawyer who will NOT take a personal injury case, but I can clearly see that since boat speeds have increased, the reported cases seem to be appearing more rapidly.

I like boating, I like racing people on the weekend, and I do not want that right to do so taken away by legislation or the courts, due to tragedy(s) like this.

Opinions?

I do not want to see or hear of anyone injured or killed boating, my prayers for those involved.

So your saying the bussel should've been designed for a crash? How do boat builders test these, should they put test dummies in there and let them flip the boats? Have you seen some of the pictures from other boat crashes? That boat looks in VERY good condition considering the amount of force it took.

GM, Ford, Porsche..... all crash test cars, and guess what, doors still dent, frames bend, cars explode, etc and people still get injured and die in accidents.

This is certainly a tragedy and really wish the best for everyone. The fact that people are alive after crashing at 130mph should say more about the boat, then less. Most simply don't make it from such crashes.

And the one thing I can tell you, in my opinion, Outerlimits builds the strongest performance boat around. Almost all carbon kevlar lay ups. Decks are so strong, you can jump up and down without even seeing a 1/16" of flex. In P1 racing, the OL is typically the only one that doesn't show signs of stress cracks and delamination.

Last edited by Whipple Charged; 06-09-2009 at 10:06 PM.
Whipple Charged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2009, 10:13 PM
  #48
Registered
 
Whipple Charged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fresno, CA, 93722, USA
My Boats: Engine, speed, powerboats, Outerlimits SV43 with Whipple 1375SCI's
Posts: 1,436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraceYourself View Post
Wouldn't you say that the percentage of accidents today is much less then ten years ago based on the number of boats. Seems that with todays technology it is much easier to operate and enjoy boating and is why many more people own boats.
I certainly agree with this. Boats before, even at 80mph were chine walking, evil boats. Not all of course, but there were plenty that couldn't handle power.
Whipple Charged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2009, 10:39 PM
  #49
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Smarty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Pitman, NJ
My Boats: Boatless
Posts: 2,267
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipple Charged View Post
So your saying the bussel should've been designed for a crash? How do boat builders test these, should they put test dummies in there and let them flip the boats? Have you seen some of the pictures from other boat crashes? That boat looks in VERY good condition considering the amount of force it took.

GM, Ford, Porsche..... all crash test cars, and guess what, doors still dent, frames bend, cars explode, etc and people still get injured and die in accidents.

This is certainly a tragedy and really wish the best for everyone. The fact that people are alive after crashing at 130mph should say more about the boat, then less. Most simply don't make it from such crashes.

And the one thing I can tell you, in my opinion, Outerlimits builds the strongest performance boat around. Almost all carbon kevlar lay ups. Decks are so strong, you can jump up and down without even seeing a 1/16" of flex. In P1 racing, the OL is typically the only one that doesn't show signs of stress cracks and delamination.



I am a criminal defense lawyer, not a PI or Products Liability attorney

Last edited by Smarty; 06-12-2009 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Legal
Smarty is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 01:39 AM
  #50
Registered
 
PhantomChaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bell Canyon, CA
My Boats: Formula FASTech 382 Sunseeker Apache 45
Posts: 12,756
Default

Can someone explain what can happen to a boat to make it get into the position that is show in the first photo in post 7? GEEEEEEZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PhantomChaos is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.