I think it's the world we live in today, we can hang people on the internet or many other types of media before they go to trial. Like it or not it is the way of the world today.

As far as JBS starting it - the truth will always comes out.

turbine marine was paid to provide engine service and inspections. NEVER done. there were parts that were LEFT out of the one engine!!! jeff paid for a spare engine that we have NEVER seen! their engines would not pass a fAA standard left alone a mil spec. and they are running them even harder.

geico left turbine marine for a good reason!

we left for even a better reason! john arruda does not have the ability to test and perform ANY tests or analysis on these engines! go visit a real faa turbine facility and see what goes into making a t53 pass test at 1400hp! it's a great place to start before you arbitrarily start making adjustments to the fuel control. turn a few things and the engine will make 2000hp and will be totally unreliable! any fuel control adjustments made on the dyno the control should come back off and be placed back on the flow bench to not only document but verify the changes so you can duplicate it on the other engine(s)!

please do tell us how happy turbine marine's latest victim feels about the current build!

jeff thought things would be different after they were out of the picture. how would you like it if john arruda turned your engines down to 92% the final day of the worlds after running the previous 2 races at 105%!!! this is fact and we have the data to prove it! the boat would only go 151 from the 190 it did the day prior! in-fact the boat full of fuel 400g, 4 people , ballast tank filled and engine water tanks full the boat has always gone over 180 with even the smallest props and shortest gear ratio!

or how about oops we left rags in the intake of aqua mania's engine!!! sorry bout that!

turbine marine has some great guys working for him! but he does not have the facility to build and test these engines properly. they are built to fail! they do not have the ability to build a stock commercial engine to pass a FAA test! the turbine marine BS is over! two of my family members are investigators for the FAA; one being my sister: stacey skrocki

jeff was told the only thing he ever had to do was change the oil and the engines would last for seasons of racing and poker running! turbine marine replaced 3 engines in the boat before it ever saw the water!

does turbine marine have the ability to run steady state on their dyno to run a complete test.=NO the cooling system will not support it

do they have the vibration equipment to run the full spectrum analysis. NO

do they have the ability to test fuel controls= NO

do they have the ability to test thermal couples=NO

do they have the ability to test oil pumps=NO

do they have the ability to test the n1 and n2 gear boxes=NO

do they have a bellmouth to run the engines at simulated conditions=NO

do they have a magna-flux and or Xray to see what the eye can not=NO

is any of the equipment they do have calibrated= NO

these parts that are used to build these engines are used and or do not have the paperwork to make them FAA worthy...SO, it's up to the person assembling them to make educated decisions on how they will preform. now how would one do that if they had no means of testing the components in the first place! guess and hope for the best. worst case is it blows up and someone has to write another check!

FAA spec? Are any of these Marine turbines FAA spec?

yes. our engines currently pass ALL of the testing standards to pass an FAA test. in fact they passed a HIGHER standard of testing using the 17-A1 specifications. vibrations, torque, power, speeds, temps, flows at every conceivable conditions should (MUST) pass! because if it does not your sure as **** not going to pass them when running them faster, producing more power, and making more heat!

to answer your question better...none that turbine marine builds!

i would be willing to bet geico's whispering turbines do.

jim at cappsco international corporation do!

another tidbit: if the bleedbands do not actuate at precisely the same time (every time) in a twin engine boat one engine is seeing a substantial different outputs!

so think about that; what do you think will happen coming out of a corner if there is a delta in the engines outputs====not good!

i can also say that even in a straight line having the bands different results in some strange things going on!

i can tell you everyone i know running these turbines have said at one time or another the boat did some strange things that could not be explained.

:)

QUESTION ABOUT TURBINE MARINE.

Do they claim to offer FAA certified power? And, I would guess that they are not charging the same as FAA certified would command if they don't. Just a curious question.

If it wasn't for Turbine Marine there would not be a turbine class. Turbine Marine has over the years has been the leader in turbines in the marine industry. Almost every successful turbine boat other then Jetset and maybe a a couple of others have come from Turbine marine. John developed many of the systems in these boats.

I feel what happens is it is very expensive to run turbines, especially in a race boat. It seems like the first few years while the teams are new to the turbine game they embrace Aruda. They need him. He is part of their team, He and his crew are at every event and always in the bilge at the races. He and his crew oversee everything.

Over time the owners and crews of these boats get educated. They get tired of paying for Turbine marine to do everything, especially when they have their own crew.
They learn how to do the maintenance and minor repairs themselves. They find turbine shops out there willing to do the work on the engines themselves. (will these turbine shops build a boat from scratch? I doubt it but may be wrong).

Truthfully this is the Prerogative of the one paying the bills.

I don't personally agree with all the bashing here. For the past few years Turbine marine obviously did a pretty good job.

Interesting. I believe the new JetSet is being built at Turbine Marine. Plus a multitude of other turbine offshore powerboats. I know people change builders for a variety of reasons, but Turbine Marine seems to have some impressive, knowledgeable clientele.

+1...this thread is dangerous and based on "anger" from ONLY one point of view. I say close it and remove it until certain facts are available from BOTH parties. All of Turbine Marines hard work and marketing efforts are on the line. Of course, the forums feed on this kind of thing!

how many engines and how much money did geico spend on turbines...the fact is JOHN HAGGIN made the class happen. not john arruda.

when jeff bought into it he was assured everything was worked out and his turbines would be the most reliable engine package out there!

jeff has paid hundreds of thousands for a spare engine that no one on our team has ever seen for 3 years!

i really like that john installed "special" parts in our engines. had to have them if we wanted to beat geico...i implore someone to show me these special parts!

comanche go visit another thread, you're out of your league here......

Sorry, I thought you were Kurts son. Well im sure you and my father have met anyway lol.
Sorry about the high jack guys

Double Down, I don't need your permission to visit any thread. Now I will certainly stay. You've peaked my interest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvxanhTspxU

Audacity hits it right on.

None of these engines are FAA approved. Each part of a turbine engine has a serial number and a FAA service life once this
is exceeded it must be removed from a engine. This part may still
be functional but it cannot go into the aircraft.

The secret lies in using a FAA Certified shop that can still analyze
these "exceeded service life parts" and put them through the proper
tests to assemble a reliable ground use turbine.

These turbines are like Frankensteins there built with parts from a pile of no longer FAA approved parts.

The point I was trying to make is Turbine boats would not be were they are if not for Aruda. Not the class. Obviously not the class. If haggin decided not to race there wouldn't be any turbines to race.

Why would someone spend "Hundreds of thousands" for 3 years if they never saw the motor. After the first year, didn't anyone ask to see it? How do you hand over that kind of money year after year without getting something for it?

Until recently all you guys we so tight. When I saw you all at Cape Coral you were all buddies. I thought John was even sponsoring you guys.
Why all of a sudden is there all of this bashing? You're mentioning Key West last year. Why is all this only coming up now?

If a guy screwed me out of an engine I paid hundreds of thousands for or If he did something to make my competitor faster It wouldn't take me years to be pissed at him. He would never touch my boat again.

Arruda would not be where he is today without Haggins bank roll.

Sit back and enjoy the show its gonna be good.

LJ42...we have kept our mouth shut on so many things and promised so much including sponsorship and support. which was like anti support. it will all come out in the end. the story is so crazy you couldn't make this stuff up.

kinda like jeff is thinking arruda is storing his super-truck while his employee is out driving it! how do we know that because he got in an accident with it! now jeff has to deal with that. again just the facts! or how about using jeff's trailer for other boats and him finding out about it from pictures online!

A bank roll is great and certainly necessary to build these turbine powerboats (Haggin). So is the ability to actually do the work (Arruda). A lot of $ & talent. The point is I'm sure they needed each other.

they can be NEW parts and have no paper work which renders them obsolete for FAA use. MIL spec is something entirely different as well. many of these parts wear. wear will result in turbulence. this will increased vibration and temperatures. you can take the most absolute junk parts toss them together and that turbine (unlike a piston engine) will do whatever it takes to make the power the operator demands until it self destructs and or melts down!

i have seen a FAA engine fail test 5 times and the individual parts all pass spec but as a whole unit they do not meet the parameters to be air worthy. changing a nozzle combination will then allow the engine to pass.

when a hot section needs to be replaced in the field they go in with another one and vibration equipment. the turbine still must pass vibration, temperature, and other parameters to fly. and it's just doesn't bolt on there and they fly away.

our hot section gets changed and oops, sorry that didn't work.

carmen rigs the boats. VERY talented. kenen is the fab guy also VERY talented. and their turbine builder builds the engines with the parts that are given to him by arruda. i have seen a ton of talent at turbine marine. the only talen i have seen in arruda is the ability to talk a good game of bs. lol

These race marine turbines sound almost like a black art. Is there any warranty?

Sorry to re-hijack. I just caught my error. I drove, he throttled.

If you guys knew all this **** was going down (accident, trailer being used, not FAA certified etc), why didn't you take everything out Arruda's possession, take you're spare engine and get diagnostics done on the one that blew?

I would have yanked any possession of mine out of his hands within hours of knowing ANY of this stuff.
Also, and this may be my pure ignorance, but what is your position is JBS racing? And does Jeff know you're airing out all this dirty laundry?

they are not black art. the manuals are written at a 6th grade level.

i can't count how many times we have asked arruda for numbers! basic numbers. answers to why something failed. what was replaced. show us the parts. tell us how these engines are able to run in aircraft and generators for thousands of hours. what parameters do they run to accomplish this. and what numbers are we running. give us a matrix of trmps, vibs, speeds, and power. so we can at the very least have some idea that if we run them at x parameters they wil only last for one race, if that!

he-ll i would like to just know why or how did it take multiple engines to be installed in the jbs boat before it even got to the water!??? the first one was vibrating the ground!

i would care more about good accurate data and the ability for the engine to pass ALL STOCK specifications over a warranty any day.

The question still stands......Are these race marine turbines warranteed?

getting jeff's boat from arruda was more than just picking it up. that will all come out in the end too! lol

the engine that failed had a very extensive failure analysis completed. the engines that are in there now run amazing!

and yes jeff knows what i am saying here...just the FACTS.

fact is i have the boat and i will be at skater with it tomorrow with it!

hey, i am here only talking about the facts.

what jeff and arruda agreed on for race support and cost is between them.

my "position" is figure out why and stop the bleeding.

I remember Arruda on "Build it Bigger" and being called, "The Howard Hughes of marine turbines!"

I also remember this being said as well as Haggin pulling out a black American Express Card.I knew there was a reason for Haggin switching a starting to do his own thing,he is no fool and it just sucks that Jeff also learned the hard way.Good luck in the future and I hope the bottom of the boat gets repaired.

Joe,

I have a similar story (different shop), with my boat from a few years ago, I saw it in pictures at events in NJ after I moved here to FL, while it was suposed to be in storage.

Glad to hear the new turbines are running strong. If anyone can 'stop the bleeding' and get the boat were it needs to be, it is you guys. Your team does not have the word "quit" in the vocabulary.

If you get to SW FL, call me
If I can do anything to help, let me know

Frank Fasulo

Frank

Now that is story you need to tell

I see it happening here all the time

A local mechanic thinks he needs to take a boat for a ride everytime he works on it .eEven if he only just changed the oil

Then you see him at events in customers boats WITHOUT the customer

It is worse than that, I was in FL, he was in NJ, and he used the boat multiple times during the summer without my permission or knowledge. He broke stuff, and left if broke. He sold the business and when I went to have the boat shipped to me is was broke, and had junk parts in it. The new owners were honest with me and told me what they saw and found in the boat. It was a big dollar OuterLimits, and after I got it back, in something like 10 hours, one motor (that he had built before it went into storage) exploded and caught fire.

No point in more details, he is gone, and I have been told the new owners have built an excellent reputation since then.

I had someone else remove both motors, and completly redo them. They found that the internals were not what I had originally paid for.

Sorry for the intermission, we now resume our regular schedulled programming....Jeff & Joe's turbines

ok time to call bull****. 193 in the corners??? show us the telemetry on that one. more bullchit form the tema that always seems to be racing from the pits.

agian, wrong. please add facts to prove your statement.

if your statement was even remotely true offshore racing would be in a much better situation than years past. geico/amf is only doing what is good for itself. geico/amf need a stage to put on their show and they also want to have the upper hand and gaureenteed wins and titles. the turbine class is perfect for this. this way they can out spend anyone who attemps to run agianst them. and they throw some money to the orgs to put them in the spotlight.

the racing is a complete joke for turbine class. they and people like yourself have only hurt the sport more.

while the boat's at skater, drive over to Sterling and pickup a set of supercat engines and see how much of a "racer" you really are. it would be interesting to see how long you guys, and also amf would last if you had to actually race.

:

:eek::eek:

Is someone "cranky".

:party-smiley-004:


Sam

Didn't both of these teams (AMF/JBS) already race in other classes and their natural progression in the sport brought them up to the Turbine Class? Just think you have some harsh words for two teams that put a lot of hard work and $$ into their teams. Those types of teams should be applauded, not ridiculed.....

I don't believe that AMF/Gieco has raced other classes. Both Scotty and Mark have raced nearly everything. JBS as a team has raced in SV and SC.