Not in so many words, but I do agree with Skater Dave that I would much rather see both teams compete in a class with boats. 750/850 would be the coolest with JBS, Gieco, WHM, Qatar, Byrider, Talkin Trash, Reliable. Now that would be racing!

AMF has raced in other classes, but not with Scotty and Mark in the boats, and not with Geico on the boat, they have supported many teams, but sponsored Trent/TNT racing for a full season a few years back. Haggin, Scotty, and Mark were great to work with, along with the rest of the crew.

F2 as well i believe

You are right. At one point they had AMF on a ton of boats, I just was thinking of the "Factory AMF" team with Mark and Scotty.

While the harsh words may be over the top, the fact is that the "natural progression" of Offshore racing has become where you increase your budget until nobody else can match it and then you are declared the "winner". Your dad raced against literally dozens of boats in the Production class and emerged the winner for an extended period of time. He used the triple outboards that were the basis for that class and had no avenue to buy more power or change spec's. His hull(s) were production Shadow Cats, and his competiion came from every hull manufacturer including other Shadows.

That's racing.

Had he insisted that he needed 5 outboards and a blown Sterling sterndrive iin the boat, he would have more closely resembled today's top end "racers". The rules and the game have changed to where it is all about the bling and not about the racing. For Joey S. to say that the Geico team "do more than anyone so far in the history of the sport" , while awkwardly worded, simply means that Geico has spent more money than anyone else in the few short years that represent Joey's (and almost all other racers today) limited idea of Offshore "history". At this point I don't think the Geico team has spent as much as Popeyes, Gentry, The Victory Team, Spirit of Norway, Apache and a number of others over the years. They have simply spent more money than anyone else has lately. The difference is most of the above actually raced against each other, admittedly at a time when much more cash was available in the sport....and not just to one team.

It's not Geico's fault that nobody has the resources to step up to race with them. It is there fault , however, that they do not, as Dave suggested, step down to where there might be a chance for actual competition.

One final point.......193 in a turn?????????? That turn better have a radius of about 100 miles.

T2x

I love turbine boats and big Mystics, but seeing Geico/AMF and JBS in 850/C1 going head to head with Qutar, Reliable, Byrider, Talkin Trash would be an awesome race, and something I would follow much more then I currently do. Mystic could build a kick ass supercat/C1 boat as well.
Of course, its there money, they can do with it what they want. If they want to be the biggest baddest unequaled boat out there, good for them.

NM, wrong formula. The theory still stands though.

LIB, 285' is less than a football feild, are you talking a 90or a 180 turn?

thats why i usually have the throttles in one hand and a slide rule in the other when we race :D

The degree of the turn does not matter since the lateral accellerations are taken at an instant. My 285' number is wrong though.
The theory still stands that you should enter a turn at a much great instant radius and tighten the radius as the boat loses speed, then accellerate though the end at a decreasign radius.

I mounted a accellerometer to Reliable Carriers couple of years ago. It is inexpensive and will give you instant G readings in 2 axis I mounted it for forward and lateral. There are many available from inexpensive to obsenely priced.

193 entering corner 1 with exit speed of 180-170 ish. It's a faint sweeper if ya hadn't figured it out. But a boat is a boat and our speeds our not that different in a corner say like the 180 in key west. Ps..we are over a g in a turn..

I have been in anything from a bat boat a,b, unlimited, sc,sv, f1,f2.

People that are not racing are the ones saying "back in my day" there was racing! Even being part of huge f2 fields. There are only 5 boats out there racing of the 27! Or the talk of all the sv's racing; which we actually were lapping 1/2 of them in a f2 boat. Whatever....

The people racing (on doing whatever by others standards) are out the for many different reasons! Jeff and I like to see how far we can push things! Just like in Havasu. We ran 198 down the back EVERY lap. Slowed down to come close to the crowed,get sideways, hook a bit, then spray some massive roost! Jeff and I only were serious where there were no spectators. With that said do you think for a nano second the spectators gave a $hit who we were racing????!!! NO! it was cool and it was a show!

We have always had accelerometers in our boat recording data to be correlated after.

Our engines will now have them as well ...!

While on this subject. Why is it that at a race these days there are SO many boats racing alone in their class. People hack on the unlimited boats for racing no one!!!?

agian BS. i was also in havasu and like most of the other races i've watched and seen telemetry from the turbines run almost the same speeds as the SC's in the corners. as for hooking sideways??? WTF is that lame azz quote. you guys ran around the outside by yourselves like a demo ride for Bayliner, took the checkered flag in the class of one and than you got up at the awards and personally thanked aruda for all his hard work. you guys are clueless!!!!!!!!!!!!

as for race experience. i don't recall you guys every racing supercat? could you explain the progression.

here's the way most view it. you guys raced F2 did pretty good. did a demo ride oncein a SC and than a few yrs pasted and jumped into turbine.

No...not really....all of the single and two boat classes are boring...you guys are just spectacularly boring.

As far as all the spectators not caring about how many boats are racing as long as you throw a big roostertail and go whoosh........... Tell that to real race fans....not people simply out there getting a sun tan and a buzz on.

Joey...I admit that I am older and my glory days of racing are long past.....and.....I have no doubt that you would race against 50 boats if they showed up...but they don't...... and therefore...... you don't...... in fact you basically race against just as many boats as I do these days....none. As a matter of fact ...when I run my Switzer wing at Antique events the inboard hydros get all racy with me.... Theres a lot of them...... and we all throw roostertails and go "whoosh" too......... :D

The fact is that racing was so much better years ago that there is no sane comparison. Regardless of the speed....20+ boats in a class is much better racing than one.....especially if it delaminates........in pre race testing.

T2x

and agian, most other classes (production) have atleast 2-4 other boats. if not most of the time opa moves them into a class so they run against others.

extreme class is the only class that i see were the competitor, namely geico, runs around by themselves on a fairly regular basis. the thing that is sad and lame about this is that they have 2 boats back at the shop that could easily be raced in Legal supercat spec. so why ......................

egoooooooooooooooooooooooooo

who r u skater dave...what do you race? what have you done? what do you have to do with racing? apparently so much more than me (us). and if you have then you should be proud of what you have done.

"looked like a demo ride for bayliner" never seen a bayliner do 206.8 as we did in our "demo" run at havasu!

"did a demo ride in a SC" never recall any demo riding in my life.

"extreme class is the only class that i see were the competitor, namely geico, runs around by themselves on a fairly regular basis. the thing that is sad and lame about this is that they have 2 boats back at the shop that could easily be raced in Legal supercat spec. so why ......................"

i have made a living racing a bicycle...racing motorcycles, testing and developing engines, and racing powerboats. SO to answer your question of "WHY"....how about.....to make money!!!...i am sure all the employees of geico racing are not there because they love and want to support the insurance company and are doing so out of the kindness of their hearts. but again, you would have to ask them as this is just my mere observation.

T2x...i have never seen in offshore racing where all the boats in the class have been grouped together after 5miles?

racing gp motorcycles professionally was just an accomplishment to get your card... for some to qualify for the 50 racer grid. 7th was the best i could ever do before i retired. i was disappointed having won a ton of races as an amateur and expert and sometimes with ease. take everyone on the planet and put them in one place you have some real competition. offshore racing has never seen this, nor will it!

bicycle racing, i admittedly hate the training but love the racing. again making a meager living from it i loved winning, it's why i raced. at the larger pro races i was just a nobody looking to get into the money and pay the rent. i was not delusional in thinking i was going to win...sometimes looking to hang on! lol

now for BOAT RACING; while i have made some money and won some races...my sense of pride and the real victory for me has been all the work i have done prior to the race. be it rigging, testing, building hundreds outdrives, or the hundreds of hours i have spent working on the bottoms. so right now i am working my ass of day and night "racing" myself; so we can race ourselves... and set a world speed record!

ps...my throttle seat is always open. bring your checkbook and i am sure jeff will let you give 'r a try. if you think you can run a boat better and safer than me at 200mph? have at it!

Back on topic......How about posting the inboat video of the two turbines exploding? It would be interesting to see and hear how it all transpired.

When we were racing Grand Prix hydroplanes in 88 thru 92 anywhere from 30 to 36 boats would be at any given site to compete for a 8 boat final. 15 or so teams were capable of winning at any given time. As soon as certain teams started dominating many of the little guys went by the wayside because they were no longer competitive.

Well said..lets get back to the nuts and bolts.

What happened, why did it happen...who did maintenance etc..

Maintenence? It's all 3-in-1 oil, ball bearings and gauze pads nowadays. :drink::drink:

Hold the phone. You raced MotoGP? When and with what team?

I dont want to sound like i am questioning you, but well, I guess I am a bit.

MotoGP is certainly an accomplishment, although I dont believe that there have ever been 50 bike grids. Nowadays it is down to 17 or so.

Philm
I'm sure he means " he raced GP motorcycles" not that he raced in "moto GP" . I assume this because I also raced a 250 GP bike here in the states, both in CCS and as an AMA pro. I raced a Yamaha TZ 250, hence my screen name.

Sounds much more realistic.

I had planned on racing but with the boat eating up all my expendable cash, well we know how that goes.

i worked for one of the SC teams, so what? my comments are based on facts that i have witnessed first hand. i hate seeing the "sport of offshore racing" continually destroyed by a few people in their attempt to stroke their own EGOS.

for instance you "havasu run". techinally you ran threw the timed track at 190-something. and you guys stated that you saw over 200mph a mile or so further which was way past the end of the timing equipment and UN-officailly of course. let me also state that this was deemed illegal for all other competitors. and of course theres no documentation of this other than your word.

so please correct me on the super cat you guys campaigned? just never remember ever seeing you either of you race a sc.

[QUOTE=audacity;3174187]
now for BOAT RACING; while i have made some money and won some races...my sense of pride and the real victory for me has been all the work i have done prior to the race. be it rigging, testing, building hundreds outdrives, or the hundreds of hours i have spent working on the bottoms. [QUOTE]

whats the use, have fun "racing". i do find it funny that you talk about pride in all YOUR prep work. how do you even justify a statement like that ? you guys have failed to make the last two races, sunny isle and now st clair. lucky for you guys this is jeff's hobby and you dont need to show a sponsor real results. you guys can get away with sitting on the trailer and still talking about how next time your going to kick ass????

i also raced superbike, supersort, formula extreme.

prior to these engines in the turbine now...i have done nothing on the jbs mystic...everything was handled and perfect..so we were told!

the promoters of the even gave us free use of the day to see how fast we could run...officially we set that lakes shootout record and UNOFFICIALLY we ran 206.8 and a bunch of other speeds they were announcing.

please do find me a post of mine where i stated we are going to kick another teams ass.

"i worked for one of the SC teams, so what? my comments are based on facts that i have witnessed first hand. i hate seeing the "sport of offshore racing" continually destroyed by a few people in their attempt to stroke their own EGOS." you can't even FACTUALLY tell us your name! what boat you worked on or raced! you part of the wash down boys???

please make up your mind. first you worked 100's of hrs on boats but yet never realized the many issues that have plagued jbs. now its "you have done nothing in the mystic" ? and everything was PERFECT? so perfect that for the last two races the jbs mystic sat on the trailer unable to compete. please correct if thats a untrue statement?


signed,
dave the wash down boy

"you guys have failed to make the last two races, sunny isle and now st clair."

it's kind of hard to race when the bottom keeps coming off the boat!

SK...yaaawwn....destroying the sport of offshore racing?? why don't you tell that to OPA, SBI, PROPRA and poker run/ festivals and others who beg for JBS to show up for races and appearances to...... and listen closely now.... to bring fans in, locals in, money in for concessions, money in for the community, media exposure and enjoyment for families and friends. they certainly are not the only ones people are coming out to see and all the other teams benefit from increased foot-traffic and media exposure of these events.
JBS, Jeff and Joey have been racing for years, they have a loyal following and some that always want to complain, but their determination to race and win is second to none.... they have had their share of setbacks but have not hung up their helmets yet...

offshore racing, hmmm....seems to me they were just in Bimini and under increasingly brutal conditions seemed to smoke everyone else after starting last....don't worry they don't need your accolades, they run for pride and self accomplishment...

oh and by the way, Joey did not repair the bottom of the Mystic after the Bimini run, it was "repaired" by Mystic and Cosker and after less that an hour of running sub 190 mph in a poker run and at St. Clair failed again in the same location.

try and get a few facts straight next time....seems like a few of you guys just don't like someone else getting more of the attention....

jeff has paid millions to have the best equipment and support. that equipment fails and the company tells you they are going to correct it and do what it takes to make it right. again and again. jeff was not even allowed to take the boat home!

geico has WAY more money than jeff and look at how much they had to spend and the time it took to do everything on their own now!

agian this is how you guys skew the FACTS. the Bimini run is a point to point run. my understanding is its a "record" type run. therefore, yes you guys "won" the event but fail to mention the part where you weren't even close to Aqua's time. so when people talk about the Bimini run Aqua holds the record, do they not?

They won the 2010 event and no they did not break the record. The water was WAY rougher this year. Read about it in the latest Powerboat. The race is a timed event each year; not a "record" run.

I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Key West, 1985. The first turn was Sand Key. I know that it is farther than 5 miles to Sand Key. The whole P class fleet was side by side. More than half of the fleet was still together after the outside leg. BTW, the fleet was about 12 boats.

notice i did have a question mark on that...

we have had 27 boats lined up at a start of a race. 17 at many and that going into corner 1, but after 5 miles it was strung all out. F series racing was inherently designed for big number and to be short lived class. for another thread.
seemingly x-cat series has some of the best racing (#'s) currently. i have been in many race boats but really would like to get in a outboard cat racing.

yes AM does hold the record!!! when did i say they didn't? hats off to them. 44min

the water was rough as all hell this year! enough to break the screen on our gps...no coms...and NO Air conditioning! we did an extra 6 miles to boot! with all that we came in at 51min. jeff and i were both devastated when we got to Bimini with no gps and going 75mph trying to get ahold of someone on the radio to please tell us where to go! they were broke too. those are the facts...if we would have had glass water; would have we got it? who knows. $hit happens! AM still own the record and they should be proud of that!

in AZ we set the shootout record and won the event officially...they guy that used to have is a serious dude with monster power in a 33 cat! i was sad to see he broke this year of we may have not done it! AGAIN we ran the entire day at the request of the promoters and ran a bunch of high numbers and the highest one being 206.8 UNOFFICIALLY...we kinda ran out of lake!

please tell me where i have stated something else. i have no problems with the facts...

bimini is not point to point....it was there and back

ps...that was the longest 51min i have ever been in a boat!

Joe S your last few of remarks just reminded me why we are just so far apart -No GPS, No coms (I assume compass or communications?), calling for directions, devastated, longest 51 minutes - I hope some of that is just for laughs?

Truth is you could never have raced years ago with some of us, you make it sound like you would have had panic attacks? I'm glad things have things have changed, because I can look back and say "I was there when a compass, watch and chart were important" and people today will never get that chance.

I don't know that running down a lake at 150, 190, or 210 mph takes much skill at all or is a test of anything other than cubic dollars that one has to spend but I think what some of us did years ago was a measure of us rather than just our dollars?

When all this started I was jealous now all in all you've made me feel pretty good that I can only afford to go fishing with my kids and not race an "offshore" anymore.