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On engines, fuel, energy, and a reality check

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Old 04-17-2011, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by offshorexcursion View Post
Thanks for sharing the great info!

I wish ALL PEOPLE would open up their minds to something other then the news channel. A Conspiracy could easily be just as true as whats reported in the news. If you did not touch or see it with your own eyes why do you automatically believe the "news" is true but a conspiracy is not?

Think about this: ask yourself what is most important to you? MONEY everything revolves around money. You want to say Family but it takes MONEY to take care of your Family.

If you honestly belive that there are not people (like oil companies and government) that do not chose right or wrong over money then your eyes are closed and your living in a dream. EVERYONE has chosen money over something else.

Please try to just open your mind to all ideas, and sit back and think. If everyone would do this then this world would be a better place. But instead while they are supposed to be thinking they get a text thats more important!
Amen! I am continually amazed at how consistent the greater population is in conforming to a perception of reality with such limited confines. Apathy and indifference are the order of every day, as is mindless consumerism. It just defies all reason.

I'm well pleased that you found what I posted to be of some value.



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Originally Posted by ECeptor View Post
I spent a full year in grad school trying to make such technology work. We even ran experiments where we supplied the H2 from a tank at a rate that assume the conversion efficiency match that of a large industrial sized electrolysis plant. Even at that rate, it was still a net loss to the engine.

I'm 100% for doing more work with less fuel. In fact, it's what I've made my career out of doing. But, it's annoying how any idiot with a website and a youtube video can proclaim they've defied the laws of physics and so many people believe them!

I, for one, don't believe the news. I also don't believe claims that cannot be supported by theory and cannot be replicated by a 3rd party. These one-off claims are not science and are not real!

If this guy really believes his device works, he should do like my sponsor did and go have it verified by an independent laboratory. If the the claims hold up, then he has something. All he has right now is a way to steal money from people by lying to them.

PS - if anyone here has access to those "mystery patents" that will allow an engine to be 60% efficient, please email them to me and I'll see to it they are in production for all of us to use. Within the last month I have visted both Cummins and Weichai headquarters working on "what can we do to be more efficient" projects. I'd love to bring this magic technology to the table....if it exists.
Mystery patent #1

Some background of the invention, and its inventors:

Quote:
The LaForce Engine:

Edward LaForce struggled for years in Vermont to get backing to perfect his amazing engine. Ignored for years by the automotive industry, Edward and Robert, his brother, survived on the contributions of several thousand individuals who believed in them. His engine design manages to use even the harder to burn heavy gasoline molecules. Current engines are said to waste these, and, since they make up to 25 percent of the current fuels, the use of the heavy molecules was a great step forward.

According to a Los Angeles Examiner article (December 29, 1974), the cams, timing, and so on were altered on stock Detroit engines. These modifications not only eliminated most of the pollution from the motor, but, by completely burning all of the fuel the mileage was usually doubled. One Examiner reporter saw a standard American Motors car get a 57 per-cent increase in mileage at the Richmond, Vermont, research centre. With such publicity, the EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] was forced to examine the situation, and of course, they found that the motor designs were not good enough.

Few persons believed the EPA, including a number of Senators. A Congressional hearing on the matter in March 1975 still brought nothing to light -- except silence. The LaForces were interviewed by newspapers and auto manufacturers across the world, and even though they only modified the basic Detroit designs; Detroit was not interested. Anyone need 80 percent more mileage?

Mystery patent #2, with detailed explanation, and plenty of theory.

Mystery patent #3


Mystery patent #4

Mystery patent #5


I could go on for quite a while longer, but think that those will be of sufficient interest for the time being.

Last edited by JP-8; 04-17-2011 at 10:11 AM. Reason: To correct a spelling error
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by JP-8 View Post
I could go on for quite a while longer, but think that those will be of sufficient interest for the time being.
So, why haven't you started production of all these super g-whiz engines? If they are as brilliant as you claim, you could buy a fleet of MTI's with petty cash as the world beat a path to your shop front begging for salvation from their energy woes.

I quick scan of those patents didn't show me anything that was more efficient than what we have in production today. Information from that

As for your reference to Andrija PUHARICH's Water Decomposition by AC Electrolysis site, he makes some outragous assumptions include at least 2 steps of his process that operate at 100% efficiency. He claims using a fuel cell he can create a 20% surplus of energy. Do you, JP-8, understand what that claim means? The main claims to have a perpetual motion machine. Again, if you really believe what this guy writes, why in the hell are you posting on OSO and not building them and becoming the richest human in history? The short answer is the guy's base assumptions are bunk and the rest of his calculations are irrelivant - garbage in, garbage out.

Anyone on this thread every spend time in a lab working on this type of stuff or is everyone just dreamers hoping and wishing the energy fairy would sprinkly some magic dust on their boat so it would run 150mph using only lake water, sunshine and unicorn dreams?
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:21 AM
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Very interesting read. Thanks for posting it.
Dreams inspire innovation!
Thanks to all the dreamers who were able to make their dreams a reality.

The government, I'm afraid, are the ones not to be trusted and as stated they are the ones most motivated by money.
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ECeptor View Post
So, why haven't you started production of all these super g-whiz engines? If they are as brilliant as you claim, you could buy a fleet of MTI's with petty cash as the world beat a path to your shop front begging for salvation from their energy woes.
I have neither the resources, nor the means to produce anything beyond a tabletop science fair project.

Quote:
I quick scan of those patents didn't show me anything that was more efficient than what we have in production today.
Those patents deserve more than a cursory examination.


Quote:
As for your reference to Andrija PUHARICH's Water Decomposition by AC Electrolysis site, he makes some outragous assumptions include at least 2 steps of his process that operate at 100% efficiency. He claims using a fuel cell he can create a 20% surplus of energy. Do you, JP-8, understand what that claim means? The main claims to have a perpetual motion machine.
That is correct. There have been many reported (and verified) cases of over-unity in a whole host of different devices. Often, these devices were invented by people who had no classical training in physics, but a penchant for tinkering.

Quote:
Again, if you really believe what this guy writes, why in the hell are you posting on OSO and not building them and becoming the richest human in history?
See above for the answer to that query.


Quote:
The short answer is the guy's base assumptions are bunk and the rest of his calculations are irrelivant - garbage in, garbage out.
You have already made yourself completely clear in that regard.

Quote:
Anyone on this thread every spend time in a lab working on this type of stuff or is everyone just dreamers hoping and wishing the energy fairy would sprinkly some magic dust on their boat so it would run 150mph using only lake water, sunshine and unicorn dreams?
It all started with a dream.
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:54 AM
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Funny how GM came out with the EV-1 10 years ago and then made it dissapear -- now what is all the rage -- electric!

Still baffles me that diesel is more than gas -- if that isn't price fixing then what is?

I think there is going to be some really neat things coming forward in the next 25 years -- think about whats has happened in the last 25... or think 75 years!?
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by delsol View Post
Funny how GM came out with the EV-1 10 years ago and then made it dissapear -- now what is all the rage -- electric!

Still baffles me that diesel is more than gas -- if that isn't price fixing then what is?

I think there is going to be some really neat things coming forward in the next 25 years -- think about whats has happened in the last 25... or think 75 years!?
I agree! We have had the technology for years but all of a sudden the Chevy Volt comes out and its futuristic! LOL. Research shows that customers LOVED the EV1 and wish GM did not take them all away after the lease was up.

Diesel!!!!!
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:30 AM
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We need to take baby steps here.

Try to just open your mind and wonder if something is possible. Don't worry about "why" or "who" or "how".

Imagine years ago when people thought the earth was flat how annoying it must have been for those who new it was round!!!!!!

Can you really imagine something like going to the moon? I am talking about YOU yourself actually going, knowing how, having the balls to go, etc? Can you even dream of the technology it would take to go?

But Supposedly equipment went in the 50's and humans in 1969. And why hasn't anyone gone back since? What a fun conspiracy theroy to research.

If you believe we had the technology to go to the moon before we even had something as little as a cell phone then you must believe we have the technology written in this thread then?

If you don't believe that we have technology in this article then you must not believe that we went to the moon. Meaning you believe in conspiracey theories. So you also believe in this thread then.

PROBLEM SOLVED! Everyone on OSO agrees with this thread and is ready to get off the couch and do something!! Awesome!
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:33 PM
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Wow, I had almost forgotten the EV1. I am reminded instantly of this:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8[/YOUTUBE]
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightlife1970 View Post
I will say this about carbs.

A buddy I went to high school with had a 1984 Camero Experimental (yes it actually said that on the car). Car had a 350 in it. Thing was very powerful for the time, and got unreal gas mileage. Somewhere in the range of 50 miles to the gallon.

after about 1.5 years of owning it, the car began to run a bit poorly compared to what it had been. So he took it into the dealer, thinking it just needed an adjustment. Both of us being 18 at the time knew nothing about engines. Anyway they take the car in the bay and open the hood.

After a couple of minutes every mechanic in the place is looking at the engine of this car. They all seemed to have a baffled look on their faces. The manager comes back and says it is gonna be a couple days before his car will be fixed, so we called his dad for a ride home. Never really thinking anything about it.

A couple of days go by and the dealer calls him to say his car is fixed. When he goes to pick it up they tell him that it had some experimental fuel dilivery system on it, that was not supposed to go to the general public. They had to change his engine over to a standard system, and it would be no cost to him for the repair.

From that day forward the car was never the same. No where near the power it had before, and fuel milage of less than 15 MPG. True story!

Wow... Talk about crazy... A kid I had working for me last fall was the type of person that loved to know everything about anything. He would tell me stuff that I thought was just completely out of this world crazy... One day heading to lunch with him he starts telling me about some carburetor that supposedly got something like 60-80 mpg hooked up to a small block, and it was all experimental but a few did leak out into the public. He followed that up with something along the lines of this "mystery" carb was actually designed and patent back in like the 30's or so and that one of the car companies, or oil companies or something caught wind of this and bought the guy out of his patent before it could actually be well known to the public. I might have gotten the story a little mixed up or left something out because honestly, I thought he was crazy! I was listening to him, but I wasn't because it did seem a bit far fetched... Anyways, just thought it was odd to stumble across this thread and just hearing something similar last fall.

One last thing, any of you see Jesse James build that hydro car a couple years ago? I believe it was a GM 572ZZ he converted and ran just under 200mph with the car. Says he set the land speed record for a hydrogen powered car, although I don't think it was a sanctioned run and didn't hold up. But hey, the man DID run 199MPH with a hydrogen powered BBC, so I do give him credit for that! Just something MORE to think about....
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:14 PM
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Wow... Talk about crazy... A kid I had working for me last fall was the type of person that loved to know everything about anything. He would tell me stuff that I thought was just completely out of this world crazy... One day heading to lunch with him he starts telling me about some carburetor that supposedly got something like 60-80 mpg hooked up to a small block, and it was all experimental but a few did leak out into the public. He followed that up with something along the lines of this "mystery" carb was actually designed and patent back in like the 30's or so and that one of the car companies, or oil companies or something caught wind of this and bought the guy out of his patent before it could actually be well known to the public. I might have gotten the story a little mixed up or left something out because honestly, I thought he was crazy! I was listening to him, but I wasn't because it did seem a bit far fetched... Anyways, just thought it was odd to stumble across this thread and just hearing something similar last fall.

One last thing, any of you see Jesse James build that hydro car a couple years ago? I believe it was a GM 572ZZ he converted and ran just under 200mph with the car. Says he set the land speed record for a hydrogen powered car, although I don't think it was a sanctioned run and didn't hold up. But hey, the man DID run 199MPH with a hydrogen powered BBC, so I do give him credit for that! Just something MORE to think about....

That sounds like curiously similar to the carburetor Charles Pogue of Canada invented in the mid 1930's.


Here is the patent



I never saw Jesse's hydro speed run, but remember reading about it in an auto magazine. I scoured Youtube for a video, but there isn't anything on there. Did find this article


I thank everyone who has chimed in with their fascinating stories/commentary, and opinions. Keep 'em coming. This thread is turning into some very interesting reading.

Last edited by JP-8; 04-17-2011 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Added a link
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