It is not my logic. It is a fundamental precept of racing. If you cannot under any circumstances win the championship, which was Brian's situation because he was DQ'd for cheating in race 1, you don't tangle with the points leader or any of the other contenders on the first lap of the last race. No one smashes into someone else on purpose, so I'm not sure where you are coming from on that one. But the bottom line is you must have situational awareness and Forehand didn't. As a result, he took out a team fighting for a championship. If that is racing in your book then I must respectfully disagree with your book.

I have raced with guys knowing #1 was the only piston checked different compression 2-8 different cam lobe 2-8. One thing to look for grey areas another ball game knowing your a cheater, True story 80 year old in my class with a lot of respect especially me caught running a sbc400ci class limited to 310ci. He ruined his whole reputation and cheated his racing buddies for a 2 buck trophy go figure.

I'm not saying it happened here, but it happens several times a year in Nascar. They dump other cars knowing there will be damage to both cars.

If you're caught cheating 4 times, it seems like the rule book should be thrown out or the penalties need to be stiffer. Now they are just making a mockery out of SBI.

Every nascar leading team has been penalized a couple times in the past 2-3 years

So they should all be disqualified?
Only a couple guys can win the championship now so the rest of the guys should just stay home to protect the leaders?
That's not racing that's handing something to someone.
That's why they have a race! They line up and EVERYONE gives it there best shot not just hand it to the leader.
Sorry if you disagree but that is how racing happens in pretty much every sport.

On the flip side of that coin, (in the dirt) I read the rule book, memorized it front backwards and sideways. I then built a vehicle that maximized and stretched every rule as far as I could bend it without breaking it. My first race I took it easy getting used to it and still won the race by a lap and half. I destroyed the field every race for the next year. And I managed to kill what was a popular class because I took the fun out of it for the other guys,

While you bring up some very valid points, I guess first you must understand that this is not NASCAR. They show up pay just shy of a 3000 entry fee and they are pretty much guaranteed to walk away with approx 50 G for finishing in dead last. In offshore, we pay to play. Some of us have sponsors but they just help defer the cost, very rarely is there a full fledged sponsorship that pays the bills...

What I find funny is the fact that 2 teams were busted blatantly breaking the rules and for both teams, this is NOT the first time they have been caught. Phantom 9 decided to go into P3 and pretty much had a quiet week until a facebook post last night of them selling the team. Brian and Doc have only been nice to me, however every move they make brings drama to our class and as Phragle said, put themselves into being known as a class killer and with most teams paying an exuberant amount of money to race out of their own pockets, why show up and pay SBI if you dont have a chance to win as well as wonder what extra drama will incur just with them being there. I just cant understand why they feel they have to cheat when with a legal setup, they went out and beat the field by 8 seconds, not the 2 minutes they are used to. A win is a win.

My whole take on this fiasco. Ive had a pretty decent run in the sport, and for every victory Ive obtained, Ive lost 3, but I always had a chance. I am certainly not going to enter to just get demoralized. Ill just go in the brackets and race a computer. Its all about having fun and racing respectful from here on out. If I were in Marker 17's shoes, I would have started on the far outside and let the guys mix it up on the inside and pounce when they make a mistake... Its just call respect, nothing more nothing less

Now its time for the KW hangover to take place and the team owners(and only the team owners) along with SBI work together to come up with a solution , obviously SBI has the final say as we the racers are just customers and they provide the platform for us to go out and have fun. Bottom line, with the Marker 17 Marine in the class, its not too much fun and not worth all the expense, Id have more fun basketweaving

I was more replying to what hustlerguy said. I want in KW, I have no idea what really transpired, what was found or not found, nor do I really care. I do find the whole svl thing entertaining. A few years ago it seemed like a pretty cool idea, but in true offshore fashion it splintered with varying different rules etc. So as I said I find it entertaining in a reality tv show type way. We all know what my feelings are about what offshore was was vs what it is, the ocean is a great equalizer, its just been taken out of the equation.

IS THAT WHATS TAKING YOU SO LONG TO RIG YOURE SVL? :coolcowboy:

yep thats it Mike :whistle:

I've been involved in this sport for over most of my life from crewing to racing in F-1, F-2, B Class, Super V and Performance classes. When Factory class was in it's prime most if not all the top teams were accused of cheating because they won. Some were found to be cheating due to grey areas and some for being outside the rule book completely. Two Factory backed teams were caught multiple times and very little done. This left the small teams to wonder why they even showed up if the playing field was not even. The teams with factory backing and $$$$ ruled the class. This was the death of Factory Class.

SLV was a nice step--up class from the P class racing with stock sealed power. Mercury 525's put these boats into the 90's which is perfect for a 30' foot. Then SBI decides because Mercury is getting rid of the 525 that they need a spec carb motor to ""Replace"" the 525. So now you have the ability to build a motor that is way more powerful than a 525 eliminating any 525 boat from competition with out doing $1000's of dollars in upgrades to heir current 525 or building a new engine from scratch. This new engine gave the rule benders many more options. But in the end the $$$$ rules the sport. Death of the class imminent.

As for the race course. I've watched footage from all 3 KW races from 2016. This is nothing more than a 2 way drag race. I understand that the spectators want to see the race. Well even with a longer course and proper race coordination the spectators will be seeing racing all the time just maybe no the whole course. The amount of spectators at KW has always been overwhelming, even with a 25 mile course. Spreading the racing out and giving the boats room to race would make is much safer and reduce the crashes by not having the boats trying to win the race in every turn. More strategy. Now maybe SBI cannot get Coast Guard approval for a longer course for some reason. But it sure would make for better racing for the spectators and the racers.

Providing safety response crews for those would be daunting. I was very impressed with how fast the divers were on top of Pro Floors after it's roll.

...

Why is it that everyone is afraid to race on a short course. Set up ( including cornering is part of the game) if you make the course longer, you just make it a longer drag race straight away.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to say I agree with this. There is a reason there is a blue flag with a yellow stripe in many motor sports. Courtesy to fellow racers who are contenders.

Never seen that flag be thrown on the first corner of the first lap in any kind of race!

No dog in any fight here either other than if your going to go there to race then I would expect anyone and everyone to race not follow the leader because he's leading in points.

At that point we better start giving out participation trophy and no one should ever be the winner because someone will feel bad they are the looser.

They played all 7 games in the world series... They didnt just hand it to the team leading the series after 4 games or 5 games.

there is plenty of boat racing done that involves out cornering and accelerating your opponent... but its typically not done in 30 to 50 foot boats designed for something completely different.

Different circumstances, same courtesy. People that are out of contention can still race hard. But, they shouldn't be racing so hard that they are taking out people in contention.

Just my opinion.

Your completely missing the point. In endurance / distance racing the safety crew is NOT right there. you have to race with that in mind, you have to race mentally, not just stick the throttle on the dash hoping you dont blow up or wreck. You had better believe that when I was racing Baja, I knew if I f'd up, help was a long long way away after somebody got around to finding me. And if I broke it, I was going to be sitting for a long time before somebody found me too. That is the mental aspect I mentioned. Thats what seperated the men from the boys....

I disagree with different circumstances, The boat who is in contention in points also only needs to race as hard as he has to so he stays ahead of his closest competitor in points. He also does not need to win. It's a 2 way street.

Otherwise in Nascar championship should only the people who can win championship race that race? Or everyone else cant try to win they just need to drive around and stay out of everyones way.

Now if this was last lap of the race or being lapped in the race I might agree with you but first lap first corner no way. I want to see the competitors race each other as hard as they want to.

Very much agreed here

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but imagine if a Cup driver who'd been eliminated from the Chase crashed the points leader while trying a first lap pass at the final race of the year in Homestead. I recognize that is hard to imagine because no professional driver would ever even consider doing something so utterly selfish and stupid. NASCAR would have creamed the guy and his fellow racers would have ostracized him.

Your World Series analogy doesn't work because both teams were still eligible for the title. Forehand was just a guy driving around a race course. What he did was akin to the LA Dodgers crashing their team bus into the Cubs bus before game seven.

Frankly, he should have left the venue after the DQ, or SBI should have sent him home. At the very least he should call Miklos and Fehrman, admit to using terrible judgment, and apologize. A man, and certainly a gentleman, would have already done so.

If the courses get any shorter , you could just add a class at the Unlimited Hydroplane Events (they could use the help) . I've always felt Offshore Racing was a sport more like desert endurance racing and never saw the point of a giant spectator base. You have the enthusiasts that will show up ( compared to tons of people on the beach that have no clue whats going on and wouldnt have been there if your tried to charge admission ). You still have Sponsors in Marine / Recreation / Watersports that will participate in order to reach a target audience. The only recognition I ever seeked was the respect of fellow competitors/enthusiasts.

Cause that target you speak of is getting smaller and smaller as the years go. True offshore racing (except for 1 or 2 runs like Hobra) is not viable these days. Sorry to break that to ya.

None of it is really viable these days , sponsors dont get much bang for the buck, so it should be racing that is most enjoyed by the participant.

The cities that put it on get a LOT. take away the idea the fans can see the race and the cities will pull out as well.

Could someone take this thread and at least retitle the GD F'n thang! This chit is getting real old. If they cheated as Fountain racers/owners so be it., all we Fountain owners share a piece of the shame. The F'n boat now is an Outerlimits, not that I give a fock, just drop the Fountain cheati'n ****.

F'n cheaters are just that, F'n cheaters !!!! Leave the manufacturer out of it.

For next year.......

"The Key West Offshorish demolition derby"

The Marker 17 team worked on the boat all day on Friday to race Thursday and Sunday. With no chance to win the championship they did it to race. They placed 1st on Thursday and ran a average lap time faster than Wednesday. You speak of this intentional spearing. There was contact Sunday ,Racing contact both boat have damage. Marker 17 has a hole in her side also and was taking on water but continued to race. If you were there you could see it was running heavy. You speak of Sun Print being the points leader they were 5 points ahead of lSB and Floaters going into Sunday race a race were the points are worth double. not much of a lead. There was not a mark on the bow of the boat but a hole in the starboard rear. So much for your spearing theory. That would make me think Brian had the inside line and Sun print came into them.

Or the OL couldnt handle the tight turn and went into the outside line.....

I am not making any accusations either way, but until a ruling is made it could go either way

I just still don't get all this whining about marker 17.
I haven't seen anyone complain about miss geico, Martino crash, or whm crash or Cleveland construction.
They all got tore up, racing hard, no one is saying the other guy is a low life cheating sob, I wanna punch him in the face.
This thread is getting comical and showing how much some of you hate a specific racer and no matter what the facts are it's all his fault. It still seems you wanted a coorination for your favorite driver to win and everyone else just follow nicely, and don't you dare try to win you sob.

27 Fountain, no one said Forehand intentionally speared SunPrint. Frankly, Forehand runs the entire boat by himself. He tried to dive into the corner underneath SunPrint, which had gotten there first, and could not hold his line. He speared SunPrint, not intentionally, but because he made a bad move. Bad moves happen. But it should never have happened in this case. Forehand had no chance to win the championship. None. Even if every other boat had broken. Under those circumstances, he never should have put his boat where he did. Again, he was just a guy driving a boat around the course and he took out another competitor who had a chance at the championship. That is just so fundamentally wrong it's barely worth arguing over.

Who is complaining about marker 17?? I have been lamenting about the current state of key west races.offshore. I am much more fond of true offshore races where men were men, the gulf stream was made to be crossed, and manatees were served with ketchup for lunch....

I didn't want to reply but cant help my self. THIS IS A HOBBY SPORT AT BEST. There is no money to pay for what we do. Self sponsorship is the norm with a few exceptions. All of us racing know this when we get into it. RULES at this level have no grey area IMO. We all know what they are. For the majority of racers that race they just want to go put there boat in a class and race thinking they are on a equal playing field. There will always be better teams based on experience, money and crew. Most are ok with losing against a team that you know have those advantages. The problem is when one of those teams continuously wins and occasionally gets caught cheating when proper tec is done it just plain stinks. How many wins did that team really win while cheating? we will never know. The general public puts them on a pedestal because they never hear about them being caught. This is small time motor sports that the underdog has no shot if cheating is thought as a right of passage to racing.

Mike A

In your eyes its fundamentally wrong and that's fine to have your view... It's just not mine and others view.
I believe you can have your view and I can have mine, I'm not going to try to make you see it my way nor will I see it your way.

How come there is no especially you have no outcry over all the other crashes that happened on Sunday's racing? Geico, Martimo, construction, others involved. These wrecks took other teams out of contention yet this is the only one you speak of? I still feel there is a hidden agenda here. Something personally against one guy.

I've raced motor sports from a kid to a adult, some smaller sanctioned stuff some larger bodies such as the AMA. I never once entered a race not trying to win. I didn't care if it was the last race of the season and I was in contention to win a championship or not. I went out and gave it my best shot to win every race.

youre mentor only runs one race a year

15 did not hit 113

YUP
good seein ya randy