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Originally Posted by madhatter42
(Post 3545424)
[url]all boats can stuff...that has NOTHING to do with the hull...ZERO...boat comes off, comes down wrong on the back side of a wave...any boat will come apart...
HE SHOT THE BOAT UNDER WATER...THE BOAT DISAPPEARED....you put that much stress on anything it WILL come apart... Are you saying that all boats run with the same attitude? To say that no hull is more susceptible to running bow down is silly If a boat runs flatter than it most certainly can be more prone to stuffing. Ask Dan Adams about the difference in running attitude between his 41 Saber and his 42 Fountain. SS930 Wheres any race video of a OL running 130 in big water? Large water races today, what few there are do not have any vbottoms running faster than 80-90 so your theory makes no sense. BTW Apache has not built a boat in 20 years so theres not a big influx of new Apaches for guys to race. Predator won its class three years ago in Key West in a 20 year old boat. How many 20 year old OL's are winning races? You guys have dragged this thread on for many pages talking about a stepped hull boat that the question that started the thread had nothing to do with You make everyone want to challenge your declarations even when we dont have any dog in the fight nor care about it. How about returning to the theme here which is non stepped hulls like Sutphen ect? NK |
I agree with NK in that an OL in all the high speed vids Ive seen, the new boats seem to run much "flatter" (except for Scot's:eek:) than older v bottom boats. The gunwalls also see very low and they now look like rocket ships! Amazing designs. With that being said, I dont think(IMO:grinser010:) that they will compare to a "nose in the air", very deep, very heavy old school Apache in big nasty water. The new OL are designed to go fast, not designed to go through the seas that you see the 47 Apache going through in the 1990 Key West Vid.
You put a 130 MPH OL in THIS water for 100 miles and the 90 MPH Apache will get there first! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niwjM...eature=related |
Originally Posted by Nauti Kitty
(Post 3545747)
With all the video out there of Apaches racing over the years in some very big water where is the video of one stuffing and coming apart? No way that water is 5-6' and no way that OL is going 90. There are plenty of stuffing videos from freeze frame over the years and a vast majority dont come apart.
Are you saying that all boats run with the same attitude? To say that no hull is more susceptible to running bow down is silly If a boat runs flatter than it most certainly can be more prone to stuffing. Ask Dan Adams about the difference in running attitude between his 41 Saber and his 42 Fountain. SS930 Wheres any race video of a OL running 130 in big water? Large water races today, what few there are do not have any vbottoms running faster than 80-90 so your theory makes no sense. BTW Apache has not built a boat in 20 years so theres not a big influx of new Apaches for guys to race. Predator won its class three years ago in Key West in a 20 year old boat. How many 20 year old OL's are winning races? You guys have dragged this thread on for many pages talking about a stepped hull boat that the question that started the thread had nothing to do with You make everyone want to challenge your declarations even when we dont have any dog in the fight nor care about it. How about returning to the theme here which is non stepped hulls like Sutphen ect? NK The Saber however is a WAY different story. Falling into a 10 ft hole at 70, I swore we were goin under, nope, the water parted at the tip of bow. It was like we were in a white tunnel an never got wet, launched huge on to the next one and said yee haa. The fountain runs really flat, difficult at best to get the bow up unless you slow way down and let the azz drop. The saber runs bow up and has to be pushed down. Running at high speed it's back on the tail if you don't tuck the drives and use some tab... even at cruise speeds. |
Just for fairness, lest anyone comment, power for power the two boats in calm water would not be close in speed. I'm well aware that the fountain hull is far faster, equal power, as is any OL
Now back to the debate! NK |
Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 3545574)
So ....your saying that OL was going 130!!!!!!! when it stuffed & blew apart?
My point (since physics and comprehension aren't your strengths) is that all things being equal, a boat traveling at 80mph will have far less kinetic energy than the same traveling at 130mph. So on some type of impact (say a stuff) obviously the forces will be much greater at higher speeds. If a boat is only capable of say 80 mph and an identical boat is capable of speeds of say 130mph, the chances of seeing failure is far greater with the boat capable of running faster (all things being equal). With that said, water is dynamic and it is nearly impossible to recreate the conditions that cause a failure as there a a lot of factors that would need to be duplicated to compare one hull/impact to another and the all the factors can't be easily measured or even be recreated. You basically cant do it, and you certainly can't do it based off 20 year old low res you tube videos! If you wanted to test and compare hull strength you'd pretty much have to completely standardize all the factors and while monitoring with load cells and working to failure. Obviously this would be destructive testing and nobody is going to spend (waste) the money to do such a test.
Originally Posted by 4195
(Post 3545687)
the lighter OL is faster and most likely has more flex and would be more prone to coming apart.
Originally Posted by Nauti Kitty
(Post 3545747)
SS930 Wheres any race video of a OL running 130 in big water? Large water races today, what few there are do not have any vbottoms running faster than 80-90 so your theory makes no sense. BTW Apache has not built a boat in 20 years so theres not a big influx of new Apaches for guys to race. Predator won its class three years ago in Key West in a 20 year old boat. How many 20 year old OL's are winning races?
NK Now continue on with your 20 year old you tube video bench racing... :drink: |
Originally Posted by SS930
(Post 3545993)
Reread my post. Saying a boat that tops out at 80 mph is stronger than a boat that is capable of much higher speeds is just silly... especially when you're using 20 year old you tube videos as your standard to gage the energy created on impact. IMO, you simply can not compare or recreate forces generated based on these silly videos you guys keep referencing. Every impact is different and as speed increases so do the potential forces of that impact.
: I said that vbottom race boats running today are not going over 80-90 in big water, if there is any, so "topping out" is not the point I made. 90 is 90 in any boat so I dont care how fast it runs on some river, the forces are exactly the same on an OL as these Apaches in large waves going 90. So far the only "silly" video I saw posted, of which none are mine, showed an OL blowing up in waves that another 20 year old video shows an Apache running the same if not greater speeds and not going under and coming apart. Are you saying "kinetic forces" are now much stronger then 20 years ago? With the videos in this thread of OL's spinning out and blowing apart I can certainly understand why you dont give "two ****s" about these videos Ed posted. Perhaps everyone else reading this thread about straight vbottoms likes them? Just sayn NK |
couple boats coming apart; [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpHjLS8IoaU[/YOUTUBE]
Anyone remember the 33' Powerplay that submarined in Key West? |
(quote)SS930: Now continue on with your 20 yr old you tube video bench racing...:drink:
OK! I love this video...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUnbmh16_2o :drink::drink::drink::drink: |
:food-smiley-007::point:
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I have question for the Outerlimits owners or heirs to one
1. Who makes the fastest hull? 2. Who has the best hull construction? 3. Who has made the best rough water boats that have proven themselves? 4.Best riding boat? Now there can be more then one answer for each question |
Anybody know what kind of boat that yellow one was in the freeze frame video from years ago that Panther posted. Thats a pretty famous vid but I never heard who the manufacturer was.
NK |
Originally Posted by Nauti Kitty
(Post 3546025)
reread my post
I said that vbottom race boats running today are not going over 80-90 in big water, if there is any, so "topping out" is not the point I made. 90 is 90 in any boat so I dont care how fast it runs on some river, the forces are exactly the same on an OL as these Apaches in large waves going 90. So far the only "silly" video I saw posted, of which none are mine, showed an OL blowing up in waves that another 20 year old video shows an Apache running the same if not greater speeds and not going under and coming apart. Are you saying "kinetic forces" are now much stronger then 20 years ago? With the videos in this thread of OL's spinning out and blowing apart I can certainly understand why you dont give "two ****s" about these videos Ed posted. Perhaps everyone else reading this thread about straight vbottoms likes them? Just sayn NK |
Originally Posted by SS930
(Post 3546092)
... I honestly have zero vested interest in OL, Apache, or any other brand, nor do I really care how fast a boat was going in any of these videos. I throughly enjoy watching these videos (especially in the off season), but that's about all I see them as... entertainment. If a boat spins, blows apart, etc, as long as nobody gets hurt I love watching it, regardless of brand! But again, I just see it as entertainment. I have no real way of measuring water conditions, boat speeds, cornering g's, etc. If you do, you're no doubt a better man than I. I'm not about to join in on the bench racing since there's no way to really quantify anything in these videos... But I do completely enjoy watching the videos so please feel free to post all the videos and examples you'd like, doesn't matter to me if they are Saber videos, Sutphen videos, Cig videos, etc... I'll enjoy it. Please continue on! :drink:
NK |
Originally Posted by SS930
(Post 3545993)
Do you have reading comprehension issues? Where did I say any boat blew apart at any speed? Did I mention OL anywhere in my post? Please dont twist my words.
My point (since physics and comprehension aren't your strengths) is that all things being equal, a boat traveling at 80mph will have far less kinetic energy than the same traveling at 130mph. So on some type of impact (say a stuff) obviously the forces will be much greater at higher speeds. If a boat is only capable of say 80 mph and an identical boat is capable of speeds of say 130mph, the chances of seeing failure is far greater with the boat capable of running faster (all things being equal). With that said, water is dynamic and it is nearly impossible to recreate the conditions that cause a failure as there a a lot of factors that would need to be duplicated to compare one hull/impact to another and the all the factors can't be easily measured or even be recreated. You basically cant do it, and you certainly can't do it based off 20 year old low res you tube videos! If you wanted to test and compare hull strength you'd pretty much have to completely standardize all the factors and while monitoring with load cells and working to failure. Obviously this would be destructive testing and nobody is going to spend (waste) the money to do such a test. I certainly haven't done any testing on hull strength, but I would argue that the carbon/epoxy layups of these newer OL are far stronger pound for pound compared to our old resin buckets. In fact, there are far more rigid (less flex) as well. Obviously they could be laid up so lightly that strength can be in question, but comparing the layup schedules, all things being equal, the epoxy boats will be far, far, far stronger and more rigid. See my post above, again I did not say anything about any 20 year race videos (nor do I give two shlts about them) or one brand or another... Reread my post. Saying a boat that tops out at 80 mph is stronger than a boat that is capable of much higher speeds is just silly... especially when you're using 20 year old you tube videos as your standard to gage the energy created on impact. IMO, you simply can not compare or recreate forces generated based on these silly videos you guys keep referencing. Every impact is different and as speed increases so do the potential forces of that impact. Now continue on with your 20 year old you tube video bench racing... :drink: Yeah..you're pissed that potato chip crumbled! Now go sit in your ostrich skinned cabin & have a glass of whine with your pinky up!! Why don''t you put a chandelier in there? Don Aronow tribute edition OL my azz!!!!!! Lol!!!!!! |
This thread should be canned in light of recent events with big thunder, this is true poor taste as I said 4 pages ago...
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This thread should be kept as a sticky in the OL section.
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non of our performance boats can handle the real rough stuff :) :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ASv...eature=related |
Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 3546123)
This thread should be kept as a sticky in the OL section.
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Originally Posted by madhatter42
(Post 3546145)
The fact you just stated this, just reflected the kind of respect you have for this sport. Go on posting your apache vids and having no respect for those pushing the envelope...
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Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 3546159)
You say you came on this thread for fun......but, you really came on this thread to jack up your self image. Well guess what? It didn't work!!!! Some people need tribute editions! LOL!
You keep plugging this.... Do not comment on my self image. I don't care about an online image unlike you apparently. Don't make statements like that. |
Hey guys, all this bickering is fun, but maybe we should take this opportunity to be thankful that we are all still here and able to boat at all. There was a fatal boat accident in KW at the races. Times like these make you think of all the times we've all done stupid things in our boats and made it out alive. These poor guys werent so lucky. RIP
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+1
*united We Race* |
Cinzano....excellent!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l-7W2XeINg |
Originally Posted by kreed
(Post 3546232)
Hey guys, all this bickering is fun, but maybe we should take this opportunity to be thankful that we are all still here and able to boat at all. There was a fatal boat accident in KW at the races. Times like these make you think of all the times we've all done stupid things in our boats and made it out alive. These poor guys werent so lucky. RIP
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Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 3546107)
LOl!!!
Yeah..you're pissed that potato chip crumbled! Now go sit in your ostrich skinned cabin & have a glass of whine with your pinky up!! Why don''t you put a chandelier in there? Don Aronow tribute edition OL my azz!!!!!! Lol!!!!!! |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by AIR TIME
(Post 3546352)
hey why don't you show the long video of that apache, I recall they were doing great but broke. that is what was said in the vid.:coolcowboy:. ps it was a 10 minute version and might of been of two races in that vid, I'll look for the name of it. its in my lib.:coolcowboy:
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Originally Posted by kreed
(Post 3546232)
Hey guys, all this bickering is fun, but maybe we should take this opportunity to be thankful that we are all still here and able to boat at all. There was a fatal boat accident in KW at the races. Times like these make you think of all the times we've all done stupid things in our boats and made it out alive. These poor guys werent so lucky. RIP
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Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 3546360)
I'm still looking for your other imaginary video of the OL running in 12' seas...I give up...you find them! I'll enjoy watching them. The Dude is having a white Russian!
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Originally Posted by AIR TIME
(Post 3546406)
Apache 41 back in the day 3.44 seconds. they say it twice in the video they didn't finish. arrhhh. I 'll look for those on P1. over the last two years theres been two apaches traded in at OL. one from mass that joker owned ,not the boat Co. the guys name is Mark he did a restore on a 47 twin blown motors. it was the best looking apache I ever saw. but only ran a little over a 100 maybe 110 or so. the other was the uglest one ever built cold war, think it was 50 or 52 it had a bussel added on:grinser010:. that was there the year before I think. if I ever hit the lotto big money 50million or more, I would have SABER 47 or sutphen 40 built with a twin turbo 1800hp Arneson surface drive one with cabin. also a OL 47 or 50 for the days I want to stay dry with mikes new 1700hp whipples. a 46 skater turbine boat, like Gerry's KNOT RIGHT and a Donzi 72 sportfisher. for fishing and partys. so I'm not a hater see I said it. I'll go look for the video's name now:evilb::coolcowboy:.
Just post the videos......Thank You! |
Originally Posted by 4195
(Post 3546068)
I have question for the Outerlimits owners or heirs to one
1. Who makes the fastest hull? 2. Who has the best hull construction? 3. Who has made the best rough water boats that have proven themselves? 4.Best riding boat? Now there can be more then one answer for each question #1 and #2 I'd say the same company. OL and the reason is they're somewhat related... I think the latest OL hulls have proven to be probably the most efficient out there, seem to be rock solid at very high speeds, and due to the layup are extremely light and rigid. They've obviously come up with a hull design that works very well and they have the ability to work in epoxy/carbon and cook them in an autoclave... something almost no other vee bottom builder has at their facility. For this reason alone, they can produce a better racing hull than just about everyone out there by default. The performance advantage of bagged carbon/epoxy compared to our traditional glass resin buckets is staggering. With that said, the incredible stiffness also takes away from the forgivingness of the 'ride' as well, but that wasn't part of your criteria... #3 and #4 are again related and I'd say hard to even quantify. If you want to look at offshore legends, the larger Apaches obviously would be a top contender. Their weight and size offers a much better (softer?) ride than a smaller and lighter boat. Obviously the longer and heavier you make a boat, the better the perceived ride will be in big water... With that said, that would not necessarily make them faster in big water, but the perceived ride would seem better to the human ping pong balls being tossed around in them. So if you're looking for the boats that have proven themselves in handling the big water and offering the best ride, I'd have to throw the CG cutters in as a top competitor. ;) |
+1 Scott..
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A few Sutphen's were doing some test runs just beyond the surfer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd2jtwviyC8 |
There's too much dock racing going on and too many videos of boats that don't belong to anyone posting....:party-smiley-004:
How about posting some videos of your own straight bottom v's running in some water? :drink: [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExbZfhvYlsA[/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vofV-CHlSPc[/YOUTUBE] |
To keep in line with the question "Who is still making a non stepped hull?" . One relevant answer would be....
McManus !http://www.apachepowerboats.com/home2.php |
Originally Posted by IronRevolution
(Post 3546812)
A few Sutphen's were doing some test runs just beyond the surfer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd2jtwviyC8 |
Originally Posted by kreed
(Post 3547166)
Hahahahaha...great first post dude!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI8qi7rPUi4[/YOUTUBE] |
Originally Posted by Panther
(Post 3547170)
This thread reminds me of 4 yr old racing the Apache! :grinser010:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI8qi7rPUi4 |
5 Attachment(s)
McManus ....Apache Powerboats owner & builder.......also offers used non step (kevlar, with carbon fiber reinforcement in critical areas) Apache Powerboats for the more discerning buyer.
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Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 3547223)
McManus ....Apache Powerboats owner & builder.......also offers used non step (kevlar, with carbon fiber reinforcement in critical areas) Apache Powerboats for the more discerning buyer.
Kurt |
Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 3547223)
McManus ....Apache Powerboats owner & builder.......also offers used non step (kevlar, with carbon fiber reinforcement in critical areas) Apache Powerboats for the more discerning buyer.
Thats what Im talkin bout! :eek: |
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