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Its over..... "The common man"

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael1 View Post
The entry level performance boat market is COMPLETELY DEAD.

I know. I've looked. Everywhere.

The entry level boats are gone. They were around until the early 90's, and then all the builders started upsizing, and discontinuing their smaller boats.

To put this in perspective, in 1989, you could buy a 95 mph Hondo flat bottom V-drive for $15,000. That included a 454 with a tunnel ram with dual quads, and the most expensive drive system at the time, a V-drive (not a cheap jet pump or outdrive that falls apart the first time you drop the throttle from a stop). It included chrome over transom exhaust, anodized aluminum pieces, cavitation plate, nice paint, dual axle trailer, and on and on.

That also was the average price of a new car. That means, many people of average means could go buy a BRAND NEW 95 mph boat, that looked and sounded good.

Fast forward to today. The average new car price is just under $30K. Tell me what performance boat you can buy with a big block Chevy that goes 95 mph for $30K.

The real problem with today's boats, is the fun per dollar has gone right out the window.

Michael
Well I could build you that flat bottom for 30k. Heck you can buy one used for 8. Don't know of too many that ran 95 from the factory but gps wasn't invented yet.
The problem is you, me, or anyone DOES not want those boats. Once technology moved forward so did our preferences.
There are companies out there building lower priced boats. One (phantom) was at Miami. The only thing is you have to stop complaining and go buy them. oh you say your not in the market and then wonder why these companies are going under or not producing. It's just the physics of business.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:49 AM
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If you guys think the boat market has gone crazy chew on this...... single engine, fixed gear, non pressurized.

http://www.controller.com/listingsde...0/1190309.htm?
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:01 AM
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Yup. And 300k for a new 172 (the common mans plane). Explains why I dont fly anymore.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:04 AM
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heres a deal.... http://www.controller.com/listingsde...P/1205757.htm? lol


or you could buy this for prolly $600K and it costs about as much to run as a big power boat http://www.controller.com/listingsde...P/1198325.htm?

Last edited by 302Sport; 02-24-2012 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mach1magnum View Post
the good news is with the economy in the tank the way it is the used boats can be found for a real bargain i know i saw a 27 fountain on oso for sale for 25k with a built big block and all the good stuff but i have to agree with crazy priced new boats i stopped dreaming about buying a new boat a long time ago
It does seem to be that way, but look close. Most "deals" are only deals because they do not fit the parimeters of what banks are financing. If it is older than 12 years and a performance boat you really do not have any options but cash. If you need to sell you boat in a cash market it better be a 150k plus or $25k or lower to hit that demographic. Not many $50k cash buyers out there.

If you are shopping a "new" used boat you may reconsider if that boat is on the last year of finacing, or you may face a serious loss if you want to sell in 2 years to a cash only market
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:11 AM
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youre right the market is very weird right now as the cheap ($50K and under) and new stuff is moving. If youre in the middle good luck.....
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:33 AM
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This is the lowest I have seen for something new.
http://www.velocityboats.com/2011velocity390.html
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:33 AM
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Along the lines of "The Common Man" idea...not too long ago I was seeking some advice and soliciting some service from a "prominent" OSO sponsor here in South Florida. When I told him what I was doing with my boat I was told " We don't work on boats at that level...we have our standards and will not lower our standards". Really...??? When the economy turns around and I move ahead in the hobby...guess who will never get a dollar of my business!!! There seems to be quite a bit of snobbery with a lot of these "High End" boaters. I had considered at one time joining the Florida Powerboat Club but that incident killed that idea. I have enjoyed success in life but I have never looked down my nose at anyone in this hobby or any other endeavor I have been involved in.
It's unfortunate, but pretty common in many areas of sale, be it real estate, cars, whatever. But also true is you'll find some well-off people in dealers that don't put on the snob routine. Maybe harder to find, but they are out there. I'm sure you could get some real neck-stomping responses if you posted something like that in a thread where dealers might congregate

It is what it is. There are nice people, and there are people that aren't nice. When you're in a niche market where High End is typical, you'll probably find a higher percentage of people that really feel pretty great about themselves, and sneer at those struggling to participate with lesser means. I've noticed that in this boating market, some of the same people have changed their tune a bit. Not all certainly, but some. Look harder, and you'll find someone that cares about boats and boaters, not just themselves.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 302Sport View Post
If you guys think the boat market has gone crazy chew on this...... single engine, fixed gear, non pressurized.

http://www.controller.com/listingsde...0/1190309.htm?
That thing sure isn't like the 172 I learned to fly in!



My perspective is that boats, especially performance boats, have always been expensive. In the 80s a 28 Cigarette was about $40,000 and a 39 with hawk power was $102,000. That was a heck of a lot of money for the common man back then.

Average wage then was like $25K so figure for the common man wanting a new 28 Cig it was about 2 years salary.

In 2001 my new Pantera with a 575 on a myco was $125K.

I think we just got spoiled with low material prices, interest rates and a bubble that gave a nice window for a lot of people to get into performance boating that never would have the chance. The good thing is a lot of boats were built so the used market has a nice selection.

In 2000 I sold my 1995 27 Fountain for $40K.. Same 1995 today is still a ~$30K boat so in some ways the used market is better today than it was a decade ago, it just isn't what it was in the hey days.

I think the soft spot in the market has been identified. The guy that as a 13 year old boat that needs to get $100K out of is having a hard time and so is the buyer of that boat if he or she needs financing.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:02 AM
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That thing sure isn't like the 172 I learned to fly in!



My perspective is that boats, especially performance boats, have always been expensive. In the 80s a 28 Cigarette was about $40,000 and a 39 with hawk power was $102,000. That was a heck of a lot of money for the common man back then.

Average wage then was like $25K so figure for the common man wanting a new 28 Cig it was about 2 years salary.

In 2001 my new Pantera with a 575 on a myco was $125K.

I think we just got spoiled with low material prices, interest rates and a bubble that gave a nice window for a lot of people to get into performance boating that never would have the chance. The good thing is a lot of boats were built so the used market has a nice selection.

In 2000 I sold my 1995 27 Fountain for $40K.. Same 1995 today is still a ~$30K boat so in some ways the used market is better today than it was a decade ago, it just isn't what it was in the hey days.

I think the soft spot in the market has been identified. The guy that as a 13 year old boat that needs to get $100K out of is having a hard time and so is the buyer of that boat if he or she needs financing.
I truely wonder what the true cost to a manufacture is for a single 27ft performance boat. I know you got probably 10-15 wrapped into a bravo and big block, so now that 125k is left with 100-110 for rest of the boat. Realize manufactures are getting drives and engines at whole sale. Factor in overhead labor and material for the rest I kind of wonder what the profit margin is. I highly doubt you would ever get a boat maker to come on here and truthfully state numbers.

It could be the boats are higher priced to make up for less sales. I still think they need to come back with 24-27 performance boats that are 40-60k and they would sell. Most people on here are in the 60k or less budget.
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