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Its over..... "The common man"

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Old 02-24-2012, 03:42 PM
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Even cars and trucks the price keeps going up, yes you have some creature comforts and better fuel efficient engines but for the most part if I stuck you in a 2000 1500 and a 2012 1500 and said drive it blind folded you wouldnt know the difference
You'd probably figure it out pretty quick when you crash! The 2012 is going to give you more rash from the airbag!!
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:07 PM
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I just purchased a new Nordic through Key Bank. Sold my 06 Heat to do so. I feel like I got a good amount of boat for what I paid and here is why. We recently had the Utah boat show, 99% cruisers and wake board boats. When I see what these wake board boats cost it blows my mind. People here buy them up like crazy. I saw a Mastercraft and Malibu at a "boat show" price of 136K. And I really don't think there are made very well. Saw a few pontoons as I am walking by I am thinking to myself Jared buy one of these and just enjoy life...cook a fukin cheeseburger and relax. Well those cost 70K WTF! I am a complete idiot but I am sure going to enjoy my new boat and it is a write off for me...I make good money but am not even close to what I call fuk you money, which is what the Miami boat show is I'm sure.

My first naval architecture internship was with MasterCraft boats and the reason that they show such ridiculous prices is to help dealers with floor plan financing. While I dont like where the company has gone as far as styling they do use top tier suppliers. For example the towers and billet pieces are done by the same company that supplies Cigarette. Structurally the boats are WAY overbuilt and the ilmor powertrains are excellent. I will agree that the Malibu is not the most well designed or built boat.

Now back to the topic at hand. There are a huge number of costs that the average consumer just doesnt see or think about, in the last couple of years anything petroleum based has jumped a huge amount in price, mechanical components also are increasing in price and complexity which is requiring more training for the workers. New EPA standards make operations more expensive, and implementing different manufacturing techniques that are becoming necessary to stay ahead of regulations take time and money to implement.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:15 PM
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Now back to the topic at hand. There are a huge number of costs that the average consumer just doesnt see or think about, in the last couple of years anything petroleum based has jumped a huge amount in price, mechanical components also are increasing in price and complexity which is requiring more training for the workers. New EPA standards make operations more expensive, and implementing different manufacturing techniques that are becoming necessary to stay ahead of regulations take time and money to implement.
I was about to chime in on this thread and mention sort of the same thing along these lines. Im not sure most of the people commenting in this thread about the increased prices in boats over the years are meaning it's the boat manufacturers price gouging the customer, or....? But if that is what they're getting at then I can say being a mechanical design engineer myself I can you tell there is so much more that goes into all this stuff than the average joe even knows. A lot of people just take the hard product for face value. Not sure if any of the boat manufacturers are reading this thread but it'd be nice to hear first hand from them with their thoughts. I can't speak for them but I bet a lot of it boils down to a few things that a lot of industries are struggling with....shrinking sales/demand which translates into lower production rates, which translates into higher costs per unit, which translates into shrinking profits.....increased manufacturing costs, raw material costs, stricter rules/regulations = higher costs, and the list goes on.....it all has a snowball effect.

I'm not saying the boat manufacturer's prices are too high, too low, or whatever, but just trying to look at it from another view.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:40 PM
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Who is the common man? 20 yrs ago when I worked at a large rack storage place our clientel of 50-60 hi-per boats were owned by guys who were mechanically inclined. Contractors, carpenters, car dealers,gas station owners, tool salemen, etc etc ect. Most grew up I would say fixing there own stuff, call tinkering if you will. In 94 out of 50 boats only 2 were full service, the rest did their own tune ups and some would pull motors at night by bribing the fork lift op with beer and be back together for the weekend. Those to me, were the common man, much like myself. Wrench all night so you can be at the beach by noon.
Fast foward to today, I don't think the newer generation is as mechically inclined, no offense. I don't think they are capable of taking an older boat, freshening it up, going out, break and fix it all the time nor want's too. Which, is as we know, a affordable way to have a great ride.
Todays common man are, imo, more into computer games and internet instead of playing in the garage. Therefore when they want a toy they go buy a zo6 or whatever. Buying a boat that is turn key for 200 hrs is not affordable for a guy making 150k a year.
The common man? yep ,he is gone, at least the guys I used to know anyways.
Please don't anyone get offended with my generalizations. I know there are lots of common men on here, but its a small world on oso.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:50 PM
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Just testing the waters here, no pun intended (alright, maybe intended) anyway, great thread; I think whether we do it here or possibly begin a new thread which shares, highlights and promotes some of the manufacturers and companies selling more "common man" products and providing services to "common man" boaters to keep us on the water would be great for all. Unfortunatley these guys dont sell $700,000 boats, so they cant advertise much, which is a large reason they are relatively unknown and thus sell fewer boats. I say this because I love fast boats and with out these smaller builders/riggers/gurus, I would not have a triple digit 27 footer.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:38 AM
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Who is the common man? 20 yrs ago when I worked at a large rack storage place our clientel of 50-60 hi-per boats were owned by guys who were mechanically inclined. Contractors, carpenters, car dealers,gas station owners, tool salemen, etc etc ect. Most grew up I would say fixing there own stuff, call tinkering if you will. In 94 out of 50 boats only 2 were full service, the rest did their own tune ups and some would pull motors at night by bribing the fork lift op with beer and be back together for the weekend. Those to me, were the common man, much like myself. Wrench all night so you can be at the beach by noon.
Fast foward to today, I don't think the newer generation is as mechically inclined, no offense. I don't think they are capable of taking an older boat, freshening it up, going out, break and fix it all the time nor want's too. Which, is as we know, a affordable way to have a great ride.
Todays common man are, imo, more into computer games and internet instead of playing in the garage. Therefore when they want a toy they go buy a zo6 or whatever. Buying a boat that is turn key for 200 hrs is not affordable for a guy making 150k a year.
The common man? yep ,he is gone, at least the guys I used to know anyways.
Please don't anyone get offended with my generalizations. I know there are lots of common men on here, but its a small world on oso.

There will always be that guy that is prideful of doing all of his own work. I'm a 22 year old engineering student, and because I had a father that fixed everything himself I do the same, I actually get very disgusted with my fellow naval architecture classmates that know next to nothing about what it takes to run a boat or ship. In my mind if you are tasked with designing and engineering something you dam well better be able to fix it when if all goes wrong!
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:50 AM
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I actually get very disgusted with my fellow naval architecture classmates that know next to nothing about what it takes to run a boat or ship. In my mind if you are tasked with designing and engineering something you dam well better be able to fix it when if all goes wrong!
Get used to it man, cuz whether you want to believe it or not there are plenty of working engineers out there who when it comes down to it, don't really know how to turn a wrench. Yes they've read about it in books and can talk a big game, but a lot of them lack that common sense when it comes time to troubleshooting or fixing something.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:54 AM
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I was about to chime in on this thread and mention sort of the same thing along these lines. Im not sure most of the people commenting in this thread about the increased prices in boats over the years are meaning it's the boat manufacturers price gouging the customer, or....? But if that is what they're getting at then I can say being a mechanical design engineer myself I can you tell there is so much more that goes into all this stuff than the average joe even knows. A lot of people just take the hard product for face value.
Having worked as a mechanical engineer myself, I agree with you. The problem people have is the boat designs and parts haven't changed much at all in the past 20 years, but the prices for the same products have skyrocketed.

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Old 02-25-2012, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MIskier View Post
My first naval architecture internship was with MasterCraft boats and the reason that they show such ridiculous prices is to help dealers with floor plan financing. While I dont like where the company has gone as far as styling they do use top tier suppliers. For example the towers and billet pieces are done by the same company that supplies Cigarette. Structurally the boats are WAY overbuilt and the ilmor powertrains are excellent. I will agree that the Malibu is not the most well designed or built boat.

Now back to the topic at hand. There are a huge number of costs that the average consumer just doesnt see or think about, in the last couple of years anything petroleum based has jumped a huge amount in price, mechanical components also are increasing in price and complexity which is requiring more training for the workers. New EPA standards make operations more expensive, and implementing different manufacturing techniques that are becoming necessary to stay ahead of regulations take time and money to implement.
Already covered this a few pages back...
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:45 AM
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Don't be an A-hole jay
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