I would argue, if for a plaintiff, that is a pleasure boat, advertised not a for a partuclar purpose, solely racing, but for the general public to purchase (anyone) who wants a pleasure boat as advertised on the website, so therefore it would be put into the stream of commerce, just like an automobile or lawnmower, and if an injury occurs, then a manufacturer may be held liable. There is much more to this arguement.

If I were defending the manufacturer, I would argue that the manufacture did in fact warn of potential injury when operating the boat in a manner not advised. And further argue that the buyer was properly warned of what may happen when the tab is lowered all the way and a turn is attempted, and the buyer-user improperly operated the boat.

Is there a winner in all this? The attorney(s). But enough with this legal BS. No one was hurt, the boat came out OK, and the problem will be fixed.

You guys are killing me!!

Are you saying if I go out and drive my Porsche into a corner too fast and crash it is the manufactures responsibility?

I would say just about any motorized vehicle can be pushed beyond its limits in the real world. I would also say that give me any boat and I will be able to flip it, crash, it or push it beyond what is safe. especially in the Ocean. There is no full proof, dummy proof, un-flippable boat made, period.

I am glad that OL is the one that is pushing the boat hard enough that if something goes wrong (ie, indicator failure, or whatever) it flips. We all know that there is a lot that can go wrong with boats.

I have been in this boat with Mike and he is not afraid to push it hard and that is what I want from a manufacture.

Glad everyone was OK.

MP

Let's look at it in different way.

Lets say you went into the corner real hard and one of the factory installed rims broke causing you to crash. The wheel manufacturer and Porsche would certainly then be at least sued if not found liable.

The operative word in your Porsche example is the manufacturer "may" be held liable, not is held liable, fact dependent. This can be very complex so there is no one single answer that is best. Yes accidents happen.

I could easily argue for both sides, plaintiff and defendant. With the additional fact(s) frompost #120 that Tom A (broken rim) has I would certainly like to be the Plaintiff's attorney.

Actually the part that I reacted to was that he ran into some rogue waves and freighter wakes with no issues which implied (to me anyway) that it shouldn't happen to the OL29, you can't compare the two instances. Maybe I took it wrong but commented on my reaction in a subsequent post.

I don't disagree with having to find the root cause.

What if said Porsche had the wheels off at one point and the tech just used an impact on the lugs and didn't use mfgr reccomended torque specs?

Agreed

Add another party to the lawsuit, manufacturer, wheel manufacturer and supplier, auto-shop that worked on the wheel-lug nuts. As far as whom will pay (if they pay at all) and what percentage, your guess is as good as mine.

Enough with the lawsuits, I want to go for a ride in this 29' beast, if I get wet (and uninjured) I will not sue. I want to go fast, hell that is what makes it fun. Let me be there when testing, I won't complain either.

Stephen

How fast was he going? Was he turning? Was he going straight? How much real testing and R&D actually took place before this model was sold to the public? Has it been tested in rough water? If so, at what speeds? Was he testing the limits of the boats turning/cornering abilities? That would be more understandable as this boat will need its limits tested before it hits the race circuit, but the passenger seems to of attributed it to a wave.

You guys really need to be more forthcoming with all the facts or the boating community will assume the worst.

+1

In mentioning the wave thing I was trying to say that while the Donzi 22 Classic is very much a driver's boat and will bite an inexperienced driver, it has proven to be quite forgiving when launching poorly off a giant wake or wave. That is, it always comes down straight. None of us know what happened with this OL but if one already flipped off of a wave at moderate speed then just maybe it has some bad handling tendencies. IDK, none of us know. Any boat can flip but this is a new model and has already crashed. As mentioned above, if it was being pushed beyond it's limits by a test crew then we have a whole different situation then if it overturned from hitting a wave badly while just being driven for pleasure. Indications are that this incident did not happen at high speed. I guess that we just need to wait for more information. OL is top shelf and I'm sure they will handle this properly.

I would remind everyone that AquaMania went over in the Key West harbor from a combination of factors that came together at just the wrong time. I don't think anyone who has driven a 50ft Mystic* will tell you it has bad handling tendencies.

*disclaimer: I am not in this group.

Lets say tab down rogue wave hits the high side of a light boat. Leverage on the tab with the wave. What do You think would happen ??? Just thinking out loud. Artie

Are you planning on plunking down 200 large to buy one? If not, STFU, it's none of your business Tex.

You think auto manufacturers or aircraft manufacturers publish the results of product development testing for John Q Public to see and comment on ?

What if a monkey hid in the back seat bit him on the ear before the Porsch crashed was it the monkey or drivers fault:hitfan::7160:

I had a monster wake hit the side of my Donzi Z-25 at approx 40 mph. ( I was not paying attention and was totally unprepared)The wave was enormous. The boat bounced off it and other than scaring the crap out of me, there was no harm done. I didn't however, have a tab malfunction as the boat in question has been reported to have.

So your not even curious if they were going fast or turning? You'd rather bash the guy for asking the obvious questions? I presume you will also be the first one to stick their head in the sand and bash the first driver that gets killed in one of these boats by blaming it on "driver error." Some of you guys should really be ashamed of yourself. You drink so much OL Koolaid you'd let your fellow boaters die in an accident before you'd let anyone say anything bad about this boat or ask any questions related to the rollover.

I don't think auto and aircraft manufacturers take product orders until after testing is complete.......and for good reason.

These threads are such bu!!sh!t. Most every manufacturer has had an issue or two, my guess is they all try to make changes "if" its something wrong, but the bottom line is most all boats, especially Vee hulls, are running way too fast now-a-days...and that is when Sh!t Happens.

OL has a great reputation, but some come on here and just want to start crap.

What a shame.

What makes you think testing hasn't been completed? From what we know here it's a mechanical issue, not a hull related issue right?

I think they have only built 2 of these, im sure they are going to suspend any sales until they have things worked out, now that this is public info they will not want any liability with these 29's, impositive mike will make sure there are no design issues before he sells any more

From a common sense angle, this step pattern looks a little agressive to me. The pivot point is pretty far forward if it starts to slide. I'd get rid of the most forward step.

Jay. Remember, The Guy who built the boat was at the Controls that day :) it Can (and Does) Happen to Anybody.

From reading the news article and what was posted here I assume the scenario was a tab was down and the indicator didn't show the position it was actually in. The driver started a turn and the boat got upset and spun/rolled tossin both occupants in the water. No fault of the boat or its design or the driver.

Pretty simple if a port tab is down and you start a turn to port it will add lift to the transom and the hull can pivot. OL has been around the block a few times and they know their chit when it comes to designing a hull. Awesome 29 and I wish I could afford one...

Where were all you when Audi experienced their sudden uncontrolled acceleration episodes ?

I'm a neophyte at these matters, but in general:
Laughing at the bogus results, followed by the report that showed each and every case it was an automatic transmission, and driver error. In every single instance, not a single person that witnessed any of the events ever saw a break light. Very similar to the Toyota report that was finished, showing no mechanical problems. The Audi 5000 had limited problems then.

I doubt this particular instance was operator error, but it does happen. There are countless examples of performance boats flipping and/or ejecting occupants, and from a wide variety of boat brands and sizes, both single and double engines. There's a lot of funny You Tube videos of things like the Russian Cigarette that ejected its occupants at fairly low speed.

I know for sure that if I run my 22' stinkpot at 50 plus mph over 3-4' seas, eventually, the transom will hit hard, projecting the bow into the next wave. Nobody ever told me this, I just know it. If I had a tab lower than I thought it was, it would just happen quicker.

Boating can be dangerous at any speed. I'm sure this is embarrassing to OL, but I expect at some point, they will offer an explanation if pushed. It sounds like an explanation has already been given, just not formal.

Yep!!

Agreed ...and if you are going for a speed run , why are you using tabs?????

Where does it say they were going for a speed run?

What makes you say it's a design issue? Do you know that they're suspending sales or are you making this sh!t up?

Why are you people making sh!t up?

[QUOTE=Indy;

Why are you people making sh!t up?[/QUOTE]

Jealousy? Hatred? Either way it just adds negativity...

Exactly my point. :helmet:

Don't waste too much time arguing with screen name 31 AKA Jim Darr....

Oh that dooche...he's like a virus, keeps on mutating.

Ah these are all great reads. Please keep them coming needed to pass some time.
-Mike

People are just discussing this incident. What is wrong with that? That's why we have these forums. This is a cool little new Outerlimits that everyone was pretty excited about. Now one has crashed already. Why wouldn't people want to talk about that? Even if it's just opinions? Why should it be swept under the rug? :confused:

Discussion is good but a lot of assumptions are being posted since we were not in the boat. I also sense some people attacking the brand which is totally wrong.

I don't think anyone attacking OL will be taken serious. :)

At extreme speeds anything is possible and can/will be dangerous. Thank god everyone is safe and the boat can be repaired. Sometimes things just happen too fast and are not the operators or boats fault. I remember running a 32 Active Thunder (Best Revenge) in Key West back in 1999. Coming into Key West harbor running along side an F2 boat, we caught a large cruiser wake at about 80MPH. The boat launched off the first wake with a twist and tripped over the second wake coming down sideways. The passenger in the center (side by side seating) came half out of the bolster and planted his face/teeth into my throttle hand opening up the sticks for a second time..by the time I settled the boat down, the owner of the boat and his friend were sprawled on the rear floor behind me and the guy who's face smashed the throttles open bit clean through his bottom lip and needed to get stitched up....not to mention the bite mark across the top of my right hand!! The funniest thing was that he thought it was "cool as hell" and wanted to do it again!!!!!! The F2 boat was also shook up pretty good and also wasn't prepared for such a strange/large wake....thank goodness we were able to laugh about it at dinner time and compare notes!

+1

Glad everyone is ok, and all that stuff. I don't want to diminish that point with what I'm about to say.

There is no way any vee bottom is going 110 (or even 105) with 600 horsepower. The only boat on the planet that's going that fast with 600 horsepower is a 28 skater or similar (or a smaller cat).

Outerlimits is making fast vee bottoms as we all know, but they are still vee bottoms and the guys at OL aren't making miracles happen. That speed with 600 hp defies the common sense of any high performance boater.

Its not unheard of when you factor in the weight. Remember this boat is VERY light. Over1000 lbs light than a SVL boat. The SVL fountain runs close to 100 and its over 1000 pounds heavier. So its not out of the realm. My boat was 29 feet long and with a bone stock 500 HP EFI with all the weight out of it ran 88 all day long. That was in 1999 imagine with the new prop technologies how fast it would have gone. Boat was 4000 lbs with out weight in it.