There doesn't seem to be much gray area here and everyone has their opinion and nothing anyone posts is going to change anyone else's mind,...............there's only one thing I can add, then I'll shut up, I've been boating on LOTO for over 40 since the late 60s and things have definitely changed the last ten years or so, many more bigger and faster boats and the WP have been much more active with the sobriety checks and there doesn't seem to have been any change in the amounts of alcohol related accidents one way or another, you would think the way the WP treats LOTO that there's tons of drunk boaters all ramming into each other, I think it's just the contrary, I rarely see stupid things happening due to alcohol by actual boat owners, now rent-a-boaters, that's different, but 99% of the boat owners I know are responsible and are careful and take great care when they're on the water.

You may be a little bias. I have no problems talking to cops but then again I have never needed a lawyers advice before speaking to anyone, so i am not sure about that always right statement. One thing I have noticed is that criminal= always right in most of these stories as of late (Ferguson comes to mind). It always seems to be someone elses fault when the person in trouble wants to act like an azz and ends up on the short end of the stick. As far as me wishes death on you that was a little over the line, sorry. If the those 3 ladies in you avatar are family also that would be a huge loss to the boating community and we cant have that. You see it one way, I see it another lets leave it at that. If there is one thing we have learned from this thread it is that you can't swim while handcuffed. Enjoy the rest of your boating season.

If text below is accurate, I don't believe he jumped. If you are hitting tall waves, going 40 MPH in a small boat, sitting down being handcuffed behind your back, I for sure would not be comfortable. It could be a perfectly natural reaction to protect yourself to stand up, only problem is he is intoxicated, and it is difficult to hold onto anything when being handcuffed behind the back, so I think he simply lost balance and went overboard.

With Ellingson beside him, Piercy sped toward the zone office. At the 3.5-mile mark of the Gravois Arm, they encountered tall waves.

“I made the comment to him,” Piercy said. “I said, ‘There’s some big waves coming.’ I said, ‘I’m going to slow down, so don’t lean forward and hit your head.’”

He said that another passenger the previous week had hit his head on a computer on the boat’s console.

“The first wave hits the boat as we were sitting down, and we roll over the wave and go down into the … bottom.”

“Trough,” Johnson interjected.

“Yeah, I don’t know the nautical term, but we go down to the bottom of the wave and the second wave is about ready to hit the boat.

“At this time, Mr. Ellingson stands up out of the seat beside me …”

He left the boat. Piercy said he reached for Ellingson, but “I was unsuccessful in getting a hand on him.”

Johnson asked, “Did he jump over? Or did he fall over?”

Piercy: “I don’t know. I’ve, believe me, played this scenario through my mind a million times, and I don’t know. All I know is he’s beside me, and then he’s not.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/state...#storylink=cpy

When I look at just the facts 2 things are clear.

The officer did his job by removing a potential threat.

The officer did not do his job when transporting the suspect in a safe manner.

Maybe, in the future, the WP should have two officers on the patrol boat at all times.

So let me get this straight, I get arrested and the cops decides to throw me out the car at 50mph I guess It`s my fault for getting arrested!?!? Who thinks like that!?!?

The fact that he "doesn`t know nautical term" or how to properly put on a life jacket to make sure a man in his care is safely transported is mind boggling.

Yea..... But if you jumped... Which is a contention point between the witnesses...

Thus in lies the responsibility argument that has been going on since it started. There is no question the WP messed up, but..... There is also responsibility on the kid and who served him the alcohol in the first place since he was underage...

I am glad my tax money is going to help fund this fight.... NOT!

Let me set the record straight on my posts....THe WP may have indeed done something wrong that jepordized the guys life. what I was trying to say is that if the guy had not made the choice to drink in the fiirst place, he would not have given the WP the possibilty of doing something wrong ending his life.

I'd submit that 90% of the people on this board deserve to be dead by your logic. how many of us have never once in their lifetime been over the BAC while driving a vehicle?

Given the testimony of the officer, Ellingson went overboard just at the very moment when the boat was being pitched by a wave. Framing it as "he jumped in" then seems extremely unlikely, and just a good excuse to divert blame.

There is always somebody who is going to reframe the facts to absolve the police of their actions no matter how clearly they were in the wrong.

I have been going by the facts as they are known. There was numerous witnesses at the time of the accident that stated the kid jumped. BUT... that is subjective because NO One was on the boat but him and the officer and the witnesses were at a distance. So did he jump or was he bounced out, that is the question. If you read the entire article, he did not leave the boat at the same time as they hit the wave. It was after...And if he was "thrown" out of the boat don't yopu think a persons body would look like a bobbling mass and people would expect it to look like that as he went in, not appear to jump. (This is MY hypothetical observation, truth is no one here knows)

Here is the facts: 1) He was 3x the legal limit for adults BAC + a trace of Cocaine was also in his system 2) He was underage. 3) someone served him or made available the booze and Drugs 4) he was arrested for that infraction. And then ALL the facts start to get blurry except the obvious, he was handcuffed and an improper PFD was placed upon him. And finally: 1 career will likely be over and another ones life is over.

I Don't think anyone will disagree that WP officer needs some type of reprimand. But was it criminal or civil. At this point, it appears it will be civil. And we as tax payers will get to pay the bill. NOT you out of staters, but those of us that live in Missouri.

At this point I think the question is what is the settlement going to be and how can that be used to make things better overall, not just pay a bunch of money that does no "real good".