41 apache worth.
 

let me start by saying - no fanboys. please. the 41 apache is IMO the best example of true offshore performance ever built. however, they are all over the board as far as price.

I'm interested in "yellow warpath" and "warpaint"

both are listed competitively at around $125k. both are 1985, and have been for sale the entire time I've owned a performance boat.

which tells me the sad truth is they are overpriced... as hard as it is I think a lot of us need to realize times are changing with the economy and the glory days are over. myself included.

so, realistically - what are they worth and how much $ in maintaining a boat like this per 100 hours ( 1 season) - keep in mind while I would wring the boat out from time to time - I'd be more interested in cruising in a poker run until it was somewhere snotty.

sort of a day dream, sort of a reality if that makes sense...thnks for the help.

Buying the boat is the cheap part. Fuel and maintenance will be $$$$

Hammerhead can be bought in the very low $100K's.

Ive asked this question before and could never really get a solid answer, when is the last time a staggered 6 person 41 sold, and what did it bring?

My best guess is Ghost Runner and I think it brought $75k...

yah in two motors and drives you'd be close to purchase price of the boat. :daz:

kind of what I'm getting at. Tonto is by far my favorite, but @ 225k - its double the other boats listed. also I can't find anywhere to book the 41. Nada lists 36,42, 47.

edit - didn't I see pics of hammerhead with the bow sticking up out of the water? (sunk) - thatll change negotiations for anyone with as much brains as money.

The problem is the boats are "underwhelming" in many areas. While we have all seen the Apache raceboats running 100 mph in 6 ft seas with Saccenti working the magic sticks but in reality a new boat with 565s will run the same speeds with modern amenities/styling and none of the hassle of maintaining a 30+ year old boat that needs huge HP to run 80 mph.

There seems to be 2 moves with Apaches:
1. Over restore, make it perfect for 3-4X what you could ever sell it for (Spirit of Apache 47 and Sacred Ground 41 come to mind)
2. Take the boat apart, restore it on a budget and it never sees water again (Jay 13 41 and Razz 41 boats come to mind). What kills me is both boats were running boats, looked fine before the "restorations" began........yet neither boat ever got put back in the water again! I suspect the 45 Apache Kid boat ended up this way also.

You have good taste my friend. That is by far IMO the best 41 Apache. I've been in it many times and it's incredible in the REAL rough. Also Robert has kept that boat in showroom condition. Also he doesn't need to sell it but that is a prime example of what a BRANDNEW 41 Apache looks like.

great post IMO... you're exactly right about taking a boat like this completely apart without spending top $

Might run the same speed but definitely not in the same conditions of REAL 4-6 ft seas. Remember many people say " I was out today in 6ft seas" and when you see the video, they're like 2-3ft. But I agree with your "2 moves"

The way I see most of the 41's listed for sale forever at prices higher than comparable vintage cigs etc is that:

1. I have been on a 41, they are one hell of a boat.
2. It takes a certain person to own one to begin with
3 The common saying is "everything is for sale"

So you have a guy with a 41, he likes the boat, but like everything else its "for sale" at a price that shows he likes the boat, doesn't really want to get rid of it, but if somebody shows up with a suitcase full of benjamins....


The ones that have sold have sold for considerably less because the owners actually wanted to sell them, take the chief for example. ( not the first mohican, but the white/pink apache).

Your going to need fairly healthy blower motors to make one fun, not huge but starting around 850's and decent drives both which take a bit of care and feeding. Granted today you could build a decent cube motor with fuel injection, whipples, hyd.roller cams and make it "realitively dependabe" with modern tech, But most of the old boats have carbs, big roots blowers, solid cams etc.

If things go right, its not that bad to run one, but if things go bad it can get real expensive real quick.

Consider in my little boat, I hit a log the other day, tore up the drive and prop. thats going to cost a couple to get the drive fixed up and got a used prop from hotrodlncn. Do that in an apache, a set of new props for a 6's can cost as much as a new kia....... So that 120k boat can easily cost 240k if you have a bad season.

100% correct but plenty of "offshore boats" never run in big seas......if it is rough, boat stays home. I know an old guy with a 525 38 TG that has never run WFO, he is a 50 mph cruise kind of guy. His favorite thing is to show off the power sliding door to the cabin.......like it is Star Trek or something!

Razz 41- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whQ3cl9UR2w
Razz at LOTO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5byUqOSEGs

Jay's 41 Apache: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oELmN45re2A
Running Boat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKJAD...5yf6-Q&index=8
Guy had great intentions and started with a good boat (running, decent condition) but once it was dismantled we never heard back again.

From the comments below the video:
Yes I have already started the planning stages and have done some computer art work to figure out my project plan for it. Going to do the work back to front, meaning paint the colors I want on it in the design from paint masks, so shoot the colors I want on the sides and deck, then use computer cut paint masks, then cover up the colors in the pattern and designs, then shoot the whole boat Cadillac Pearl white, then peel the masks exposing the colors underneath then clearing the entire boat.
Super Speed Master #3A big shaft drives. Yes Merc Drives, they made the speedmaster line for years and years for the bigger HP equipped boats where the TRS and Bravo drives would not hold up and would blow apart right away. So the SSM 3A drives were a great drive and still are. Konrad drives are making direct replacements for them and replacement parts as well so getting them repaired is not a problem. Props are interchangeable from #3a, 4, 5, 6 drives so I have an easy time finding props

whatever happened to Jay13's 41 Apache? Is he running it now?

list up the makes of the "new" boats that will run with an apache 41 in big water... please there are none...

you need to pick your friends more carefully lol

Come on Rat.....the crowd is going to roar now......

37 AT with the DDC hull!
41 Pantera, 41 Saber!
Any Fountain, after all they have won more races!
Any Cigarette because it says #1, if it is a Lipship then double points because it will be better!
OL will make the list because they are the fastest Vee bottom on record now......

See the list will never end........

The point is, nobody is running these boats in big water like the boys did back in the 80's/90's like those race videos.

i would take a boat with 3a's over a six boat after seeing the mait schedule for rebuilding 6s is 200 hours....

I wouldn't say it to that extreme because there are some of us that do and still ENJOY IT. These old resin buckets were made for this.

Bobby Saccenti is still building new boats........

A 50 Nortech, 46 Rough Rider, or a 47/52 Outerlimits will run circles around a 41 Apache with equal power and in any water.

With the market today, you can pickup all of them for under what they are asking for Allez Vite, Tonto, and Tatonka.

Todays tech is way ahead of the old straight bottom resin buckets and somebody on here had a good saying a little while back: "Nostalgia is one of the biggest blind folds in life"

It will cost you roughly $20-25,000 per year to own a boat like that unless you build your own motors and drives.

This is my budget based on my Donzi, Twin 700hp Potter Engines. It does not include travel or poker run costs.

Yearly
$5000 - Fuel
$5000 - Storage
$5000 - Boat & Trailer Maintenance

Every 5 Years
$20,000 - Motor Rebuilds
$10,000 - "Oops I Broke...."
$10,000 - Upgrades
-----------------------------
$40,000 - Total ($8,000/year)

Love these Apache Powerboats Threads....An Iconic brand that many love and some target, but nevertheless an incredible rough water performer. Carry on men! Up, up and awayyyyy!!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pDV7vHF2G4

the 41 saber is a resin bucket that cme out of the apache molds correct. i dont belive a 37 at will run with an apache 41, you ever see an o/l owner beat the piss out of his hi tech boat? in real 6 to 8s i would lofe to see the video... it you can find one. lol

granted saccentis new warpath is a beast that will run over a 100 with 725s, it a stepped hull and probably a few pounds lighter than an original 41 apache resin bucket, but basically the same boat as i understand it. i havent seen the new 41 pantera has one been delivered to a customer yet, is so what mph will it run with 725 a side? with out the weight/mass it wont be a wave crusher like a 41 apache period...

Harley makes it work. :party-smiley-004:

Does anyone owning an Apache that is running actually doing any mechanical system maintenance on their boat or do they shop it all out ? Guys like Jay13 had big ideas but he probably wasn't capable of maintaing the mechanical elements in boat, he seemed more interested in painting it. I'd say he ran out of money and/or skills. Last we heard he had a lifter problem on one engine.
ed

RM............you clearly missed the sarcasm in my reply! :D Everyone thinks their boat/brand is a wavecrusher!

what "tech" are you referring to... the cnc cut plugs for the molds? the hi tech materials used today and vacuum bagging? that tech will enable the builder to build a nice "light" fast boat with 525's that will beat you to death in big water...

please for the love of god explain to me what new technology will make a 41ft 6500lb boat crush waves like a 41ft 10,000lb boat...

i look at my experiences with my cig mistress which is where the apache 41 came from. my mistress is built like a resin bucket apache 41. i dont know of a heavier 35ft boat on the market. and yeah running down the icw lots of new high tech 35ft boats with a lot less hp pass me.

but when they have hurricane warnings on the gulf and im out there hammering that beast through real 6 to 8s, the boat is totally at home, that boat doesn't groan, creak, or flinch in that kind of water. it just hits the next wave head on and pounds through it... i dont see any of those other high tech boats out there running in that stuff... not a one..

its the exact same thing with a 41 apache... 30 some years after coming out of the mold you can still run them like that with no fear of hurting them...

47 with triple 800's just to spice it up a little
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niwjMgDl02k

I suppose you could commission a heavier layup boat. Buyers seem to be demanding more speed however. If you commissioned a new resin bucket, I suspect it would depreciate faster. The cc guys seem to be more demanding of build quality and structural beef for good rough water capability. Witness all of the threads on the hull truth about build processes and techniques.

The gtmm 39 had beefier buildup to get a more solid feel according to the articles on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcXg_tkcyCQ We woke up a 41 today...

As stated Bobby is building new boats with new technology. I think it would be cool to see an epoxy 42 Chief with 540 Mercs and see how it sizes up.

the new epoxy warpath is a monster with the arnesons and 725s running well over a hundred... cnc cut plug, best rigging, bagged epoxy, first class, but a ton of coin, a lot more people can afford an 41 apache resin bucket lol

I would buy hammerhead in a heartbeat....love that old bucket. I don't care how wet it got.

my bad, i see so many peeps saying that crap tho it gets tiresome lol... carry on

Is Sabre still building boats?

My bucket is a ripple crusher, real waves are launch ramps.....

Warpaths and the Fire Fly boats are not an expoxy boats, that's a new idea the fellas came up with after the Miami show.

They think we can cut the price down some, shave off around 1,500 pounds and still keep the quality, speed and ride up.

Sure, you want a brand new 41 they will build it better than the old days.

!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSMf9HPxIQk

The rough water Benchmark!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRt-luHB2Zs

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