Why are headers so expensive?
08-22-2014 | 12:45 PM
#21
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From: Northport N.Y.
They use a low melting alloy between the tubes. It gets pored in between them when they are standing up and they bend them. And it gets melted out in hot water after they get welded. Very cool stuff to have in a machine shop for odd projects.
08-22-2014 | 01:28 PM
#22
Neno the mind boggler
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From: toledo oh
Actually makes sense and i had never heard of that before.
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08-22-2014 | 01:40 PM
#23
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From: On A Dirt Floor
Just found this interesting tidbit on different mediums used for mandrel bending:
So, maybe CMI is using Cerrobend or an equivalent ?
Besides the above mentioned three types of mandrels, different materials are used for to lend stability for tubes when they are bent. The three most common materials are sand, frozen water and cerrobend. These materials are compacted into the tube to create a mandrel effect. Cerrobend is a metal alloy consisting of bismuth, eutectic alloy, lead, cadmium and tin. It is also called Wood’s metal since it was invented by Robert W. Wood. Mandrels made out of these materials do offer the required support for all kinds of bends. However, they are not highly precise.
08-22-2014 | 01:41 PM
#24
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From: cleveland ohio
And, to think I used to think my stainless kooks headers were pricey at 1100.
08-22-2014 | 01:46 PM
#25
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From: Northport N.Y.
Look it up in MSC Its called fixturing alloy melts at 158F 63 dollars a pound. Sure you could use this for something! I use it to make spline sockets for outdrive tools! 
Dave stellings told me on the phone how they make them and I saw small piece floating around my collector.
Dave stellings told me on the phone how they make them and I saw small piece floating around my collector.
Last edited by 14 apache; 08-22-2014 at 04:52 PM.
08-22-2014 | 01:58 PM
#26
Neno the mind boggler
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From: toledo oh
ya know for the money Lightning has a pretty good header. Bunch of guys have them around here without issue. I also like the Dana Torque Flows but dont have any first hand knowledge although i think i will wait till that place stabilizes before i would order up any
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08-22-2014 | 02:08 PM
#27
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From: Bay Area, CA
Jan builds a real nice product at Lightning, and he's reputable! He builds a number of private label headers that you see on the market too. I'm no Ed Snowden so I don't want to spill any industry secrets here but I think you might be surprised by his production line if you ever get to Lake Elsinore.
08-22-2014 | 02:14 PM
#28
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Good info thanks for sharing
08-22-2014 | 02:21 PM
#29
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From: Traverse City, Michigan
Nothing wrong with CMI's, but CMI built Merc 525 headers have a problem specific to that header system.
Why are they so expensive? Well look at material costs; you've got around $2k or more in Stainless alone. Then look at a CNC Mandrel bend machine that does double wall - cubic $$$ . Add in your design time, testing, jigging, welding equipment, polishing, heat treating, etc. Then CMI being the capitalist pigdog industrialists they are, want to make some money too, is that a bad thing? I don't like how much headers cost either but if you look at it from a manufacturers standpoint their not such a bad deal.
I just had a set of custom stainless headers made for a little 4 cylinder Lotus Cortina, nothing special just 4-2-1 single wall no polish. $3,500.oo .
We had to send the exhaust out on my Cessna twin for an AD (Airworthiness Directive) inspection. This requires them to open up and reweld some of the components. $ 9,500.oo.
CMI's or Like headers for what, $ 7,500.oo? Polished and ready to go, like bolt on ready to go? Deal, write the check! CMI's been around for a long time and builds some quality products, there are some other less expensive alternatives but they may not be around in 5 years for you to complain about them. I don't like the cost of this stuff but it is what it is and these companies need to be profitable too or they won’t survive. I know some have had less than desirable experiences but you normally only hear the complaints not the praise.
I've got two pairs of old E tops on our Fountain that have worked flawlessly since new back in the late 90's. I never overheated them, made sure they had the CORRECT water flow when rigged, drain them when not in use and pickle them in the winter. Most people don't do this I know and when you mistreat your equipment it doesn't last as long.
Why are they so expensive? Well look at material costs; you've got around $2k or more in Stainless alone. Then look at a CNC Mandrel bend machine that does double wall - cubic $$$ . Add in your design time, testing, jigging, welding equipment, polishing, heat treating, etc. Then CMI being the capitalist pigdog industrialists they are, want to make some money too, is that a bad thing? I don't like how much headers cost either but if you look at it from a manufacturers standpoint their not such a bad deal.
I just had a set of custom stainless headers made for a little 4 cylinder Lotus Cortina, nothing special just 4-2-1 single wall no polish. $3,500.oo .
We had to send the exhaust out on my Cessna twin for an AD (Airworthiness Directive) inspection. This requires them to open up and reweld some of the components. $ 9,500.oo.
CMI's or Like headers for what, $ 7,500.oo? Polished and ready to go, like bolt on ready to go? Deal, write the check! CMI's been around for a long time and builds some quality products, there are some other less expensive alternatives but they may not be around in 5 years for you to complain about them. I don't like the cost of this stuff but it is what it is and these companies need to be profitable too or they won’t survive. I know some have had less than desirable experiences but you normally only hear the complaints not the praise.
I've got two pairs of old E tops on our Fountain that have worked flawlessly since new back in the late 90's. I never overheated them, made sure they had the CORRECT water flow when rigged, drain them when not in use and pickle them in the winter. Most people don't do this I know and when you mistreat your equipment it doesn't last as long.
sent you a PM.
ed
08-22-2014 | 02:25 PM
#30
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From: Channel Islands, So. Cal.
ALL CMIs ARE NOT JUNK.
CMI gets a bad rap for all the 525 and similar header issues.
However, CMI submitted a spec for the 525s when they came out.
Mercury didn't like it. They wanted something cheaper.
What CMI ultimately accepted was a product that wasn't built as well, but built within the $$/spec they were willing to pay.
CMI built that spec and sold them thousands for OEM Mercury packages.
Then after the headers started to fail, CMI got the bad wrap as they everyone pointed fingers in both directions.
CMI gets a bad rap for all the 525 and similar header issues.
However, CMI submitted a spec for the 525s when they came out.
Mercury didn't like it. They wanted something cheaper.
What CMI ultimately accepted was a product that wasn't built as well, but built within the $$/spec they were willing to pay.
CMI built that spec and sold them thousands for OEM Mercury packages.
Then after the headers started to fail, CMI got the bad wrap as they everyone pointed fingers in both directions.
Last edited by thisistank; 08-22-2014 at 02:31 PM.
