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Old 12-03-2002, 10:16 PM
  #61
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Default I must disagree !

The AT / Sonic comparison was "well thought out". Both boats have the same published deadrise, 25 degrees, are within a couple of inches in actual length and with the new infusion process weigh about the same. But the AT will cruise at the same speeds with lower engine RPM with equal power.

Now if you still disagree, lets use a couple of other examples where the step did increase the speed/efficiency of the boat. Fromula 382 SR-1 to FasTech, Powerquest 380, Powerquest 340, Fountain 38 Fountain 35, 35 single step, 35 twin step (each faster than its predecessor), Cigarette Top Gun, Top Gun twin step.

Take any of the boats mentioned and with equal power the stepped version will be more efficient/faster than the non-step version.

Reckless288, I do understand your position on steps. Your boat is less than 30 feet, has a step and can be beaten by a non step boat with the same power. All in good fun. Steve Stepp does make a fast boat. He does not use steps, but he does lay'em up light, uses notches and pads.

Last edited by h2owarrior; 12-03-2002 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 12-04-2002, 10:10 AM
  #62
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Default Re: I must disagree !

[QUOTE]Originally posted by h2owarrior
[B]Fromula 382 SR-1 to FasTech, Powerquest 380, Powerquest 340, Fountain 38 Fountain 35, 35 single step, 35 twin step (each faster than its predecessor), Cigarette Top Gun, Top Gun twin step.

Each of the boats listed above is also NEWER than their non-step predecessers and benefit from more up to date laminates, mold finishing, propeller development and engine tweaking. In addition all comparisons were conducted by marketing people who would be fired if the newer hulls showed no advantage....I repeat.... Caveat Emptor


Originally posted by Tom
"I would much rather be in the water with control and efficiency than loose on the last 18 inches of the boat."

Funny, the last time I flew over one of these babies in a race it was unable to stay in its own lane.......... My opinion only....The bat boat would be just as fast...without the steps.

T2x....a hindrance to nonsense.
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Old 12-04-2002, 10:48 AM
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We are talking wetted surface here. Harry Schoell built models for the Gentry Transatlantic project in the early 90's. He (we) discovered that there is an ideal angle for the planing surface to be presented to the water. It seems that there is a finite lift/wavemaking resistance ratio. I can't share the info. It is Harry's, but I have seen it work on many occasions. It REQUIRES a step to get both surfaces at the same angle. Before most of your times, Lindsay Lord said "The most significant development in planing hulls in the 20th century is the invention of the trimmable drive, rotating on its own axis, which can control the running attitude of a boat in various sea-state and load situations". T2x is right. If you can pry the nose up and lower the wetted surface, you go faster. If the step is out of the water, what good could it possibly do? Harry's designs are aimed toward a comfortable, dry ride, and certainly accomplish that mission. Bear in mind that probably 8 out of 10 performance boats were designed by people without proper training.
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Old 12-04-2002, 01:07 PM
  #64
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Hmmmmm.....The facts thicken. And H2o, my feelings on steps is irrelevant of my partially stepped boat. The step meant nothing to me when I bought it other than to be assured that in it's partialness, it wouldn't spin or roll out on me because I like to cut turn a lot. I just generally don't subscribe to the "...it makes ya go faster" concept. The only way to uniformly prove it would be to take an older, say 382, and shave it's hull down creating steps then compare. But oh wait! Then the hull would be lighter wouldn't it....Essentially I concur with the old versus new example and too many other considerations to credit all improvements on step design when in fact the negatives should be getting all the press. Sad part is when I move up out of the "under 30 boat" my options will be limited to another Sunsation (pretty good choice I think) or non-stepped boats that have other questionable aspects about them and simply don't pull my trigger in the sweet looks department...
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Old 12-04-2002, 01:50 PM
  #65
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Looks like if you step up to the 32 foot Sunsation you will get one of those stepped boats designed by the marketing department.

I agree with both Reckless and T2x if you are talking poorly designed steps. How do other boats choose step location, height, etc.? Flip a coin? Skater, arguably the best along with Buzzi and Mannerfelt, uses steps. Who else is in that league and what do they do or say about it? I already posted what Ocke said, where are the comments from the others.

Check out www.batboat.com. 28 ft. twin outboards, 126 mph. 0 - 60 in 4.6 seconds. Steps. Just ignorant and curious, does the 28 Skater have steps? What engine package, speed etc.? What would happen if they raced?

I am very interested in this topic and am not trying to bash anyone or call your boat ugly, etc. and really like the input by all so far, just trying to debate if well designed steps really work or not. The trouble is there are so many factors like weight, etc. as reckless has pointed out. Is there anyone other than Ocke testing in wind tunnels? We can give Heidlen? of Skater the benefit of the doubt based on experience alone, but again he uses steps.

attached image is 32 Sunsation from their website.
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Last edited by Tom; 12-04-2002 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 12-04-2002, 05:14 PM
  #66
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One of the pleasures of boating on Lake Winni are the old wood boats. I got a ride in this one and it was an awesome experience. Made you really grab on to the safety bar in turns. http://www.nhacbm.org/Obsession.htm
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Old 12-04-2002, 05:48 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by BROWNIE
Bear in mind that probably 8 out of 10 performance boats were designed by people without proper training.
More like 95 out of 100......................



[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tom
Check out www.batboat.com. 28 ft. twin outboards, 126 mph. 0 - 60 in 4.6 seconds. Steps. Just ignorant and curious, does the 28 Skater have steps? What engine package, speed etc.? What would happen if they raced? [QUOTE]

.................The Bat boat would accidently run into the Skater.....in the first straightaway.

T2x....................enjoying the heck out of this

P.S. Speaking of wind tunnels.....I know a few sources of unlimited hot air

Last edited by T2x; 12-04-2002 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 12-04-2002, 06:57 PM
  #68
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More like 98 out of 100 manufacturers.

I guess that means the batboat would smoke you since they never ran into anyone before and win all the time. Unless you mean it will hit you when you blow over when it gets rough while it laps you.

3 world champion titles
50 first place victories
11 wins in 12 races one season
twin 300hp outboards
28 ft long
126 MPH

Mine is 22'8" long 600 HP big block goes 100+ and 85 in 4 - 6 footers. No matter where I go almost everybody comes out of the restaurant or shop to see the boat and says it is the coolest thing they ever saw. I know I own one of the rarest and coolest boats in the world and I enjoy the heck out of it.

Name calling me or my boat with blatantly wrong statements does not help your credibility or make me feel any less secure about what I own and love to drive. I do have an average penis though.

Now back to the facts or are you afraid to admit them? What engine package on your 28? how fast in calm and 4 - 6 footers? Why does the maker of your boat use steps? I am really just curious, not looking for a pissing contest.
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Old 12-04-2002, 07:06 PM
  #69
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First off let me say I am not a "hull expert" by any means. I frequent this site and Hot Boat for fun and information. I'm running a 25' stepped Eliminator hull, stock 502/415[air cleaner upgrade] and a blueprinted prop. We GPS'ed the boat at 72mph with all the usual stuff on board. I question the under 30' part of steps coming into play. I like to compare the speed of other boats in my size range as I'm sure most of you do and I find my boat to be faster than most in a apples for apples comparison. Looking at the LOTO shootout the boat in the V1S1 class ran 67mph. Maybe T2x could shed a little light on this.
 
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Old 12-04-2002, 08:00 PM
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Default I don't know!!!!!!

I am not aware of any major weight reductions on any of the boats I mentioned when they went to steps. 382's have had published weights between 10,450lbs and 11,000 lbs ever since I can remember. What about the Top Gun versus Top Gun TS ?

If you have equal boats, same length, weight, power, drives, props, etc, yet one has a step, the step boat will be faster. I do agree that it needs to be a properly designed step. I use design loosely as fluid dynamics in an open enviroment is a very difficult thing to model. Imperical data (testing) is a must in this type design work. From there you can develop formulas etc. But it does take time and money.

Hey Reckless, I understand "partially stepped". Fully stepped boats do have to be driven differently and require a little more "driver Skill" than non or "partially stepped" boats.

I am sorry for that last comment. I could not resist All in good fun. I really like the topic and the comments
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