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are pleasure boats running too fast?

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Old 03-03-2004, 01:23 AM
  #111
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i think settgin up an actual school might be very difficult. The only way to run soemthign like taht is by havgina large company back ie. IE. wellcraft (if they setill made scarabs, formula, baja or one of the larger productions companies, or maybe fountain)

they'd need the ability to have school boats and a teaching facility.

To setupa schoo liek i went to for racing www.racenow.com (bertil roos) might be difficult. MY thinking for a perf baoting school was perhaps a monthly classroom session manufacturers could hold and invite customer past, present and potential (can you say marketing oportunity). They coudl discuss theroy, technique and hopeflly onboard video. I find in car racing on board video analysis is one of the single best tools i can use to see what i'm doing right and what i'm doing wrong.

If all manufacturers offered some kind of seminar like this based on a mutually agreed upon curiculum its really might make thigns in general safer. Additioanlly they could offer some kind of incentive other than becoming a safer better boater such as letting the students/attendees chekc out some of thier newest boats or perhaps even a demo which which could servre to demonstrate some of the techniques described AND serve as a great sales platform.
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:54 AM
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Mr. Velocity, that's exactly my thinking. Why is it that running 150 mph requires all that safety gear for racers but running 170 requires virtually nothing for poker-runners, not even experience? I am just intrigued by this double standard. Is there some magic involved which makes "pleasure" 170 mph much safer than "racing" 150 mph?

However, not everyone in the racing community always agrees on the need for safety gear. Remember the argument between Reggie and MA of APBA when Reggie showed up in a canopied factory boat. If I remember correctly, MA didn't think that was necessary for close racing at 90+, infact he was concerned that consumers would not be able to identify that canopied factory boat as the boat they could buy on Monday at their local dealer's. Bad examples often come from the very top...
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Old 03-03-2004, 08:12 AM
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Lots of good points here, and the general consesus is strongly in favor of policing our ranks from within, which is always the best scenario. The question is: Who is going to be the one/organization to set and recommend the standards? In motorcycle poker runs, the AMA sets the standards, yet in boat racing, none of the (myriads of) sanctioning bodies have enough organizational skills to put together a drunk-up in a brewery. It's a disgrace.

For 3 years now, there has been a set of standards floating around for Poker Runs (longer if you count PRA's rules), yet only one or two organizers actually post and enforce those standards. We are our own worst enemies, and we're all guilty of occasional transgressions. Yet there are still organizations out there (and you know how you are!) who openly allow alcohol at their events, do not use Pace boats, or allow people to run without vests or lanyards - real, basic, "duh"-type safety stuff.

I'm not talking about a a few ultra-high-speed accident like the unfortunate tragedies in Biscayne Bay, Tampa, and Chesapeake Bay. I'm talking about where "we" get 99% of our visibility - Poker Runs and everyday cruising.

I have met the enemy and he is us. Boaters - heal thyselves.
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Old 03-03-2004, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by super termoli
Mr. Velocity, that's exactly my thinking. Why is it that running 150 mph requires all that safety gear for racers but running 170 requires virtually nothing for poker-runners, not even experience? I am just intrigued by this double standard. Is there some magic involved which makes "pleasure" 170 mph much safer than "racing" 150 mph?
150? What race boats run 150? Supercats are lucky to see 130 in race conditions so the speed differences are far greater. The main problem is many people feel they are indestructable when they climb into a boat, including many racers. Take a look, even a few years ago, how many Supercats didn't meet the lavin guidelines, ie removing the lid and cutting the opening larger, then look at the effects.
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Old 03-03-2004, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr_velocity
..Take a look, even a few years ago, how many Supercats didn't meet the lavin guidelines, ie removing the lid and cutting the opening larger, then look at the effects.
I'd wager that the vast majority STILL don't meet the guidelines, and none of the SBI/OSS/APBA/MOUSE groups have ever had the cojones to mandate the requirements for fear of the competitors b!tching about the cost...
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Old 03-03-2004, 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Mr. Demeanor
Clearcut, if I had children I would reconcider my choice of motorcycles but I think I will always own then.
I'm with you there...people who don't have the addiction to the two wheels don't understand it as well. When it's something you have always had it's hard to get away from it...it's a way of life.
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Old 03-03-2004, 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by clearcut3
I'm with you there...people who don't have the addiction to the two wheels don't understand it as well. When it's something you have always had it's hard to get away from it...it's a way of life.
I got my first bike at age 6 growing up in the back woods of PA. I had the addiction. Living and driving in NJ cured me of that addiction pretty quick and that's why I love fast boats. However, I'll never venture into Barnagate Bay, again too many crazy people.
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Old 03-03-2004, 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by RollWithIt
T2X I understand the statement about liability issues involved with trainers during civil actions. It is only a concern if you are teaching incorrectly. As long as you instruct people on a accepted curiculum then you will have nothing to worry about. As a field training officer I would be held accountable if I tought somebody improperly and they based their actions on that. As long as I tought them properly, even if they go out and do something wrong, I am not held accountable. Same goes for any instructor, teach properly and you will not be held accountable if somebody decides to ignore that which youve tought them and do something stupid. I think that there should be some sort of standards and curriculum but established by boaters for boaters. Not wait until the government decides to do it for us. I say lets beat them to it and do it right. Being a Police Officer I get to see more than my fair share of reactionary rules and regulations because of the innability of Officers in the past to take the steps to correct the problems themselves. Got to the point where the government had to step in. Often times these rulings are the results of Court cases where the courts say there needs to me more regulations. I enjoy the freedom associated with power boating. Its one of the last bastions in our society that is relatively unregulated. I would like to see it that way. But the only way to protect that freedom is for us to police ourselves first, so others dont decide that they need to do it for us.
Thanks for the clarification....and I respect your first hand knowledge. There is one slight problem, however. Even when one is not culpable in a liability suit..... one has to hire a lawyer at his own (non reimbursable) expense to prove it. This has been the leverage used in the past few years with many of the lawsuits around offshore racing governance. "Do it or I'll sue you." really means "Do it or I'll assault your pocketbook with legal fees". In that regard many "settlements" are coerced because they are cheaper than the ultimate legal bill...not because they are merited.

I, for one, would like to see manufacturers and insurance companies, rather than individuals, stand behind any training programs. ( This may be a Pollyanna idea) Our original purpose with Skaterfest was education as you may recall....... but not in an official capacity.

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Old 03-03-2004, 10:13 AM
  #119
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Originally posted by super termoli
. I'd much rather be regulated by someone like T2x than by some guy sitting in D.C.
According to my employees...... you may be out of your mind.

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Old 03-03-2004, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by puder
i think settgin The only way to run soemthign like taht is by havgina (if they setill
.

To setupa schoo liek They coudl discuss theroy, and hopeflly thigns chekc thier servre
Thanks Puder..... We can always count on you.

For what is the current question......

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