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are pleasure boats running too fast?

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Old 03-03-2004, 06:32 PM
  #131
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ironmanwb
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by SummerObsession

.
2. ANY boat of ANY speed or design operated by someone with no common sense or regard for themselves, their passengers, their equipment, or anyone else on the water.

I believe the latter is the larger of the problems.

I could not agree more ...that was the point of my comment about the speed doesn't matter whether a boat is going 10 or 100 mph it is the ability and sense of the driver that makes the boat safe or not.
All the skill and common sense in the world is irrelevant if you seize a motor at 125 mph....... or have your hull delaminate.

I submit that whats needed is a performance boat industry oversite group that will jointly handle safety standards, hardware specs, driver training curriculae and etc. similar to C-Spray's suggestion.

With all due respect to whomever is offended, there is such a thing as too much power for a hull........... and too much speed as well.......

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Old 03-03-2004, 08:40 PM
  #132
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Technology will advance, speed will increase. Hopefully with all the above some modicum of safety will as well. High performance boating is just like any other potentially fatal sport. Problem with boats... it is supposed to be a pleasurable environment! Hence, closed canopies, 5 point harnesses, air systems, big ass rubber ducky bumpers probably isn't going to play in the mainstream. The damn boats cost enough already anyway. If ya' wanna go fast PROTECT YOURSELF. Licensing,government regs is total and complete HORSEKAKA...it will destroy the sport and the recreation there of period. I LIKE to go fast on the water, in a car whatever (you dudes on bikes now....Harley guy myself). Whenever I go out, I'm very clear...**** can happen if ya' wanna' go fast. Same in the Porsche with even less odds of living on a big dump. Live free...Run fast...the IRS is just behind you!

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Old 03-03-2004, 10:47 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dano
Same in the Porsche with even less odds of living on a big dump. Live free...Run fast...the IRS is just behind you!

quite frankly you coudln't be more wrong.

A buddy of mine backed a formula continental intoa tire barrier with a concrete wall behind it at about 115. He walked away. I clipped a barrier (also at watkins) atabtou 70 in a 1994 bmw 325is and walked away. FYI The entire right side ofteh car was destroyed. These weren't loss of controls wher eyou slide out onto grass and stop they were hardcore instantaneous high G impacts. Impact the water in a out of control offshore boats and your probably not walking away.

It seems to be much of the effort in deisng in boats has been placed on making them faster. In race car design the efforts goes of course into making them faster BUT making them safer as well ie. beter restraints, anti-intrusion reinforcement, energy dissapating crumple areas, ect (much of this technology eventually filters down to production cars). The main reason for this is that everyone knows when you race (aka pushing your equipment to its and your limit) you are going to crash. It happens. Its the nature of pushing the envelope. Somtimes you have to go over the edge to see where it is. Once you find the edge you know what to expect and how close you are too it. The concept is to make the design stand up to this kind of test becasue its not matter of if it will happen but more of when.

Push to the edge eventually you go over.
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Old 03-04-2004, 10:17 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sydwayz


"He owned a series of sleek, swift racing boats and participated in high-speed races on the Chesapeake called "poker runs," Doetsch said."

I HATE the media. Not only did Powerboat Magazine step in it by telling the Post the speeds, but this sealed our fate right here. I can't imagine what this Doetsch was thinking when he said this.

Powerboat mag has done several articles on ITS boats over the past couple of years. I'm sure the news media just read the info from the PB Magazine articles that are right there on ITS's website.

http://www.integratedturbine.com/news.htm



And you'll find the speed is listed here:

http://www.integratedturbine.com/index.htm
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Old 03-04-2004, 12:06 PM
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T2X, the liability issue and attorney costs are a concern. The key is to get the school or what ever organization that you are doing the lessons for to foot the bill if the need arises. In law enforcement, the borough will pay the attorney fees as long as your conduct was within the boundaries of your duties as a police officer. Sometimes this is bad because as you mentioned, its usually cheaper for them to settle and payout rather than fight it because you are right. I think it could be possible that some sort of "union" or organization could be formed that would be able to provide legal aid and act as a negotiating body when the need arises. Or the existing clubs can incorporate a function like this for their members. Think about it, how often have we read about people getting stupid citations or new laws restricting this or that because of somebody who has ties with special interest groups wants it that way. We should be able to have a powerful body to represent our side of the equasion. OSO is not too far off the mark when you see how often people ask for advice here and get good advice. You figure we already have over 15K members, think about the might behind something like that, I am not advocating that OSO should do this, but to have a large organization that could legally represent individuals or lobby for/against rules, regulations, restrictions and the sort. Obviously members would have to pay a due for the services, but if you were a driving instructor and a member, then you would not have to pay out of your own pocket for any expenses that could arise. There are a lot of details that would need to be worked out, but this was just meant as a generalization of what could be done. Remember, this isnt meant as a sheild so people can do what ever they want and get away with it. I know personally that if you go out, act like an a$$ and violate laws and safety guidelines, I am not going to spend money to protect you.
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Old 03-04-2004, 12:11 PM
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And as far as a license to operate a boat, the day is coming. Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commision already requires that all users of PWC's need to take a test and get certified to use them. No matter what their age or experience is. I believe the fine is 100 dollars if you get cought without the certification. Now they are starting to look at boats. I will attempt to post the info from their website below.
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Old 03-04-2004, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
[i]And Last:
Should we need a license?
Yes! Everyone is dead against this, Why? Would it really be that big of a deal? Its something to take away and make people accountable. Take Dennis Rodman for example. Keeps speeding through Newport Harbor and pissing everyone off giving all of us a bad name, and keeps paying the fines. How about just pulling his boaters license and then he cant drive? Hmm, problem solved. Drinking and driving? Get a DUI, No more boating...Good! As for a test, If you cant pass it should you really be on the water? So why not have a license for performance boats? I am with John on the FAA thing. I have studied and trained and am proid to hold my ratings and Commercial Pilots ticket. Its something earned and something to be taken away. It keeps me accountable in the air and to my passengers. Its not a macho thing, its a safety thing.

Be safe!

MD [/B]
You are going to open a big can of worms you can't close if boat licensing is implemented. Why do you insist on getting government involved in this? Once they sink their hooks into something, they just get deeper and more intrusive ever year with increased fees and lower speed limits. How would you like a law stating that 65 is the maximum legal limit? What makes you think they would allow speed limits higher than the highways? You just bought that brand new Outerlimits with twin 1300 Sterlings. What are you going to do with that power? This would spell the end of all poker runs because you would have bowriders keeping up with you. I'm telling you that the licensing idea is a BAD one and it WILL lead to speed limits. It ain't worth having something in your wallet to be proud of.

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Old 03-04-2004, 01:02 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by robyw1
You are going to open a big can of worms you can't close if boat licensing is implemented. Why do you insist on getting government involved in this? Once they sink their hooks into something, they just get deeper and more intrusive ever year with increased fees and lower speed limits. How would you like a law stating that 65 is the maximum legal limit? What makes you think they would allow speed limits higher than the highways? You just bought that brand new Outerlimits with twin 1300 Sterlings. What are you going to do with that power? This would spell the end of all poker runs because you would have bowriders keeping up with you. I'm telling you that the licensing idea is a BAD one and it WILL lead to speed limits. It ain't worth having something in your wallet to be proud of.

Roby
The biggest problem is the license just becomes a revenue generator for the govt. If you can afford a boat then you can afford a HUGE license fee. In NJ boating DUI is tied to your DL. No reason they can make other offenses the same. NJ has a boating option that you can attach to your DL, if requires no testing just pay the fee and you get it. It does nothing to help what's going on.
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Old 03-04-2004, 02:15 PM
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We've digressed from the too fast/safety issue to licensing, which are two different subjects. On the subject of the original thread, I'd be all for a consortium of marine industries and clubs to organize a formal safety and boat-handling program oriented towards performance boaters. Anything I can do to help this along - give me a shout.

(Off-topic) Licensing: A double-edged sword. Yes, any time you get government involved it tends to get more complex. However - what better way is there to stop repeat offenders (Dennis Rodman, SuperCrash, etc.) than to revoke their privileges? Sure, just like DUI's on the street there will be some habitual offenders who won't care if they have their license or not, but sooner or later even they pay, usually with jail time (right, Troutly?).

Case in point: If you violate NJPPC policies during a club event, you get (A) dressed down by the club president, who is 6'8", (B) sent home for the day and your money refunded, and/or (C) kicked out of the club.

Guess what? There are virtually NO disciplinary problems in the NJPPC. Imagine that.

The PWC crowd brought a ton of $hit down on their own heads. We can learn from that.......or follow.
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Old 03-04-2004, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr_velocity
The biggest problem is the license just becomes a revenue generator for the govt. If you can afford a boat then you can afford a HUGE license fee. In NJ boating DUI is tied to your DL. No reason they can make other offenses the same. NJ has a boating option that you can attach to your DL, if requires no testing just pay the fee and you get it. It does nothing to help what's going on.
You're right about the word HUGE. DUI/BWI convictions are NOT going to keep the offender off a boat. The only time I ever got stopped by the water patrol it was just an equipment check-see. I was never asked for my ID nor did they ask who owned the boat. The officer apparently chased me for about 3 miles before he caught me at the marina. He politely asked me if I realized he was trying to stop me. I replied no sir and I apologized. He said "no problem I just wanted to see life vest, fire extinguisher and current registration sticker" He saw them, said have a nice weekend and was out of there.

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