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are pleasure boats running too fast?

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Old 03-03-2004, 10:27 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by super termoli
Mr. Velocity, that's exactly my thinking. Why is it that running 150 mph requires all that safety gear for racers but running 170 requires virtually nothing for poker-runners, not even experience? I am just intrigued by this double standard. Is there some magic involved which makes "pleasure" 170 mph much safer than "racing" 150 mph?

Thanks to C-Spray and Super Termoli for your excellent comments.

Now here comes the hard part...... If the Lavin guidelines apply to 90+ mph race boats.... The same rules apply (even more actually) to 90+ mph pleasure boats.... but canopies, harnesses, proper cockpit construction and helmets are not very fashionable.
However, these things save lives.

On the topic of speeds north of 150...... That is a whole different animal, wherein the guidelines have to be updated........ since most calamities at those speeds with multiple occupant boats...are potentially not survivable.

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Old 03-03-2004, 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by C_Spray
I'd wager that the vast majority STILL don't meet the guidelines, and none of the SBI/OSS/APBA/MOUSE groups have ever had the cojones to mandate the requirements for fear of the competitors b!tching about the cost...
It wasn't the cost... it was the competitors, builders and riggers believing they had a "better way"....or in the case of one .....deceased...... racer...
He found the restrictions "claustrophobic".

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Old 03-03-2004, 10:35 AM
  #123
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Default Two things and then I'll shut up

1. The introduction of motorcycle issues......while well said and timely....is taking away from the boating related topics herein.

2. The issue of the timing of this thread..... needs to be addressed head on. If we don't do something quickly....and talk openly and directly. All these fatalities will hurt us more than simply in the hearts. While we can sentamentalize and machismo-ize this issue all we want..... the truth is people have died....who didn't need to.

For too d*mn many years.

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Old 03-03-2004, 11:47 AM
  #124
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First, I think the timing of this thread (although hard) is appropriate. We are the individuals buying, building and driving faster and faster boats.
Are the boats ready for the speeds we are pushing them to, with family and friends on board? Probably not. I see high performance pleasure boats with Intercoms, quarter canopies, V-cut seats with grab handles, etc. But if you are running over 100, why do these boats not have Supplemental air? Helmets with intercoms, or 5 point harnesses (With supplemental air for flips)? Because they are uncomfortable? Because they don't look good?
Are Pleasure boats really made to go this fast? Yes.
Safely? No!

Question 2,
Are drivers ready? I know many owners of High Performance Pleasure boats on the West Coast. Are they Qualified? How did they train? Did they move up in steps, or just buy the best?
The answers to these questions scare me.
I personally feel responsible for the qualifications of many drivers here today. I have taught people to maneuver around docks, trailers, slips, other boats at low speeds and progressed to boat handling up to about 70 MPH, after that, I'm done! I refer people to Race boat drivers for training. And do people take the reference? Nope, Never, Not One Time! I am not talking about everyone out here, two people I know recently purchased boats on the East Coast and stuck around to learn how to drive them, they will most likely enjoy the sport more and for a longer period of time for this descision.
Thank God for groups like SCOPE, NJPPC, COPS and other powerboat clubs. Members ride in each others boats and share experience. I honestly believe the clubs today are accountable for experience shared and lives saved.

Question 3:
Poker Runs. Is it really that fun being in front? Honestly? I like looking at a boat on either side and passenger smiling and digging the ride. We run as a pack and watch out for one another. Running in front is not a social event folks, its bragging rights. Who has more fun, and who is just being irresponsible?
So are we going too fast in pleasure boats? Probably. I don't want to give a straight answer to that question considering it is up to the individual who boards the boat (And that goes for passengers too).
I just wanted to add food for thought about the boats and the qualifications of the drivers.

And Last:
Should we need a license?
Yes! Everyone is dead against this, Why? Would it really be that big of a deal? Its something to take away and make people accountable. Take Dennis Rodman for example. Keeps speeding through Newport Harbor and pissing everyone off giving all of us a bad name, and keeps paying the fines. How about just pulling his boaters license and then he cant drive? Hmm, problem solved. Drinking and driving? Get a DUI, No more boating...Good! As for a test, If you cant pass it should you really be on the water? So why not have a license for performance boats? I am with John on the FAA thing. I have studied and trained and am proid to hold my ratings and Commercial Pilots ticket. Its something earned and something to be taken away. It keeps me accountable in the air and to my passengers. Its not a macho thing, its a safety thing.

Be safe!

MD
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Old 03-03-2004, 12:55 PM
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Very well said Matt! I enjoy reading your comments as they are from a different point of view than most of us here. Most of us don't sell boats, and therefore have no insight to the "average" type buyer.
I am really on the fence as far as liscensing goes. I would not mind doing it, I just would not want to go through the hassle if it was not enforced.
It seems to me there are two seperate issues developing.
1. New ultra-high performance boats that are/may be exceeding the ability to be operated safely, particularly by inexperienced owners.
2. ANY boat of ANY speed or design operated by someone with no common sense or regard for themselves, their passengers, their equipment, or anyone else on the water.

I believe the latter is the larger of the problems.
Leaving Party cove last summer at LOTO, we just got on plane and were cruising with traffic (probably 35pmh or so), when some (terms removed for taste, and I can't think of any nice ones) person came flying around the corner, weaving in and out of boats heading the opposite direction!!!
I had to turn hard left to avoid being hit.
Liscense or not, fast boat or not (it was on old solid black V-hull with red interior) this guy WILL eventually kill someone if he continues to be an *sshole on the water.

What is the answer? Not a clue. As always with history though, nothing will remain as it is forever.
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Old 03-03-2004, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by clearcut3
You bring up a good point:

The Internet has made information accessible that years ago most of us would have never heard of...

Unfortunately, especially when reporting news items, the internet contains extensive mis-truths and mis-information that often paint a picture of what someone else wants us to see, not necessarily what is.
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Old 03-03-2004, 01:49 PM
  #127
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this horse has been dead a while!
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Old 03-03-2004, 02:16 PM
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Interesting choice of words.
If this subject is not discussed and resolved by boaters. It will become mandated by governing bodies.
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by T2x
Thanks to C-Spray and Super Termoli for your excellent comments....T2x
Quote:
Originally posted by IDRPSTF
...If this subject is not discussed and resolved by boaters, it will become mandated by governing bodies.
Looks like we're all pretty much on the same page, although possibly in different paragraphs, but that's close enough.

Like T2x says: "Now here comes the hard part":
How do we get all the various organizations on the same page?
1) Every one of us needs to lean on the management and fellow members of our various organizations to get pro-active about safety and image.
A) Image is important as anything. The sizzle is as important as the steak & "it IS all about perception".
B) Let everyone know the rules are coming, they will be posted, published and enforced.
C) Don't just say it - DO it. When someone screws up - take action.
2) Lean on the management of your organization to communicate and work together with all of the other organizations.
3) Push your boat dealer to get involved.
4) Push your boat's (and engine's) manufacturer to get involved.
5) Coordinate with the mainstream boating safety organizations. Talk to the USCGAux, Power Squadron, BoatUS, etc. The NJPPC has included Safe Boating Week materials in some of their promotions/events, and gained a lot of respect (and information).
6) Push for a formal meeting of the various powers that be at a venue they're likely to be at anyway - the Worlds, Miami Boat Show, whatever. It's in their best interests anyway - getting together on this could save their jobs/organizations.
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Last edited by C_Spray; 03-03-2004 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:31 PM
  #130
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by SummerObsession
[B]
.
2. ANY boat of ANY speed or design operated by someone with no common sense or regard for themselves, their passengers, their equipment, or anyone else on the water.

I believe the latter is the larger of the problems.

I could not agree more ...that was the point of my comment about the speed doesn't matter whether a boat is going 10 or 100 mph it is the ability and sense of the driver that makes the boat safe or not.
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