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Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

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Old 08-08-2004, 12:56 PM
  #131
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Default Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

They ALL break Including the Sterlings. Usually its not the builders fault, just an inadvertant part failure. When you are trying to make 1500+HP for relatively long periods its a ticking time bomb, something WILL fail.

Pro-stockers don't break because they change parts after every couple of passes and know how many they can get on a set of lifters, etc. Those are 7 second passes....just look at how many "passes" a marine engine does in just 20hrs....its amazing they last as long as they do.

I've been to the RENO Air races a few times and the motors in the unlimiteds are no different, teams HOPE they make it through the weekend. Many don't. Of course they are making 4000+HP in race form, injecting water and Alcohol into the intake to control detonation even while running 130+ Octane fuel. My point is a stock V-12 Merlin engine will last 500+hrs, you turn it up to almost 3X's what it was designed for and its a time bomb that lucky if it survives 2hrs of running. These are 200k motors!

We might think its "no big deal" to have a truckload of spare parts when in reality its a ton of cash to have out there.....especially for just a kilo run. Sure there are sponsors, but its still a big investment.

For all practical purposes 1300hp is about it out of a Big Block V-8 while still expecting to maintain a respectable amout of reliability for an "endurance motor". V-12's etc can go a little more. The aviation industry and hydoplane racers learned a long time ago that if you need more, its best to step up to a turbine if you want any reliability.

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Old 08-08-2004, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

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Originally Posted by cuda
Excellent point radioboy!
Thanks Tilemaster!!!

I just do not see how people can not understand that there are already runs/records being made with STOCK SEALED motors in F1 and F2 boats. Guess what, NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THAT!!! There seems to be a few that say they care but for the most part people want to see the HUGE numbers and the envelope pushed. A lot is learned from this and the R+D WILL go into future hulls. Should Cig, Formula, and others try? I think so as they will learn a LOT about their hulls even if they ultimatly can not make their boats go that fast, or just don't care.

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Old 08-08-2004, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

i agree with jdnca1, all performance motors break if they are nut freshened. We don't know what broke or what caused it, so i see no reason to bash the engine builder. He did his job. If OL chooses not to get the motor freshened up it is not racecrafters responsibility. Thats the sucky part about building performance motors, you don't know who ends up with them, or what your customers do to your motors after they take control of them, but when something goes wrong you are always the one whose reputation gets ruined. And it is not the engine builders responsibility to supply racers with spare motors so they can attempt a kilo run. It is really disapointing the way they are getting bashed over this.
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Old 08-08-2004, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

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Old 08-08-2004, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

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Originally Posted by Hustler40
We don't know what broke or what caused it, so i see no reason to bash the engine builder. He did his job. If OL chooses not to get the motor freshened up it is not racecrafters responsibility.
Is this even true? Who came up with the statement that there were 27 hours on these engines? And that the engine builder recommended that the engines be rebuilt at 30?
I just find it hard to believe anyone would show up with a motor that was ready for a rebuild to do this kilo. Especially OL.
With any part of racing, you have your gremlins. Obviously they were in both Fountains and OL this week.
Remember, had the weather been right on Friday, neither boat was 100% ready for this Kilo run.
Reggie had cooling issues, and OL had whatever problems with their engines.
With the delay, Reggie had enough time to do what he had to do. Unfortunately, OL did not.
It would have probably been better that there was no delay in the event.
It may have had much different results.
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Old 08-08-2004, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

This is nothing but a monkey **** fight! Nobody has given an eye-witness account of what happened. Just one loud mouth after another posting one rumer/acusation/ b.s after another.

Bottom line, Fountain ran an unbelievable run and deserves all the credit in the world. And also has continued a legacy of being on top of the game and cutting edge technology.

Outerlimits... I know nothing about their participation, but if they meant to show up and run, then they also deserve credit, above and beyond their own accomplishments prior to the run. If they had a problem...hey, thats the way it goes. I break down almost every weekend and I'm not even trying to break any records!!!

Bottom line, if you don't know what your talking about, shut up!!
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Old 08-08-2004, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamer
they are NOT racecrafters!!!

and i told you all they wernt going to run before all this started


P.S. u can buy the outerlimits... there are 4-6 of them outthere allready, not a special one off kilo boat!!!
I have been saying this all along. Try doing this in a boat a customer can order from Fountain. Not knocking what they acomplished but you have Fountain owners on here now saying that Fountain's are the best boat out there. Lets compare real world boats. My.02.
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Old 08-08-2004, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

facts are undisputable,,
Fountain won ol was the 1st loser.. it is what it is,, when i raced and didnt have my chit together, i lost!! thats that,, no matter if boats cars motorcycles etc he who is dialed in and finishes 1st wins,, the rest doesnt matter!! dnf, dns whatever.

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Old 08-08-2004, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

There is an old saying for those who look to win "Dont take a knife to a gunfight".
Nobody is saying that OL brought the wrong weapon, but he sure forgot the ammo, and thats just as bad as bringing nothing at all.

There was some serious hype and smack talk from both parties and both groups of fans (And this is the first time, in a long time this sport has had so many fans at once back there team!) There was also alot of money put up to run this. Showing up to a KILO with 10% left on the engines before suggested rebuild and no spare engine was a novice move. If it was a matter of money, I am sure RACECRAFTERS could have built an extra so they would not end up with all of this bad press.

Additionally, Outerlimits has posted on this site and Mike gave OSO TV an interview. I am sure that misconceptions could have been straightend out by now spending 10 minutes in front of a computer.

But then again, if it wasnt for OL being a contender, FOUNTAIN wouldnt have invested this much or run this fast. On an R&D standpoint, we as Go Fast Boaters are lucky they both are competeing!
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Old 08-08-2004, 04:38 PM
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Arrow Re: Kilo Time!!!! Outerlimits vs Fountain

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnca1
They ALL break Including the Sterlings. Usually its not the builders fault, just an inadvertant part failure. When you are trying to make 1500+HP for relatively long periods its a ticking time bomb, something WILL fail.

Pro-stockers don't break because they change parts after every couple of passes and know how many they can get on a set of lifters, etc. Those are 7 second passes....just look at how many "passes" a marine engine does in just 20hrs....its amazing they last as long as they do.

I've been to the RENO Air races a few times and the motors in the unlimiteds are no different, teams HOPE they make it through the weekend. Many don't. Of course they are making 4000+HP in race form, injecting water and Alcohol into the intake to control detonation even while running 130+ Octane fuel. My point is a stock V-12 Merlin engine will last 500+hrs, you turn it up to almost 3X's what it was designed for and its a time bomb that lucky if it survives 2hrs of running. These are 200k motors!

We might think its "no big deal" to have a truckload of spare parts when in reality its a ton of cash to have out there.....especially for just a kilo run. Sure there are sponsors, but its still a big investment.

For all practical purposes 1300hp is about it out of a Big Block V-8 while still expecting to maintain a respectable amout of reliability for an "endurance motor". V-12's etc can go a little more. The aviation industry and hydoplane racers learned a long time ago that if you need more, its best to step up to a turbine if you want any reliability.
Right! So taking what you said to heart do you bring a fresh engine to a KILO full-bore series of run's or one ready for a re-build?

'nuff said
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