Thoughts on switching to Holley Super Sniper EFI?
 

Hey guys,

I've got a pair of Roots blown BBC's being redone right now, they'll be around the 1050-1100HP all said and done. Currently they're dual Holley carb setups. Like most of you, my other hobby is cars (anything with an engine honestly) and I've installed and ran Holley Sniper EFI on a few small and big blocks and absolutely love the system. I'm pretty familiar with Holley EFI as well as monitoring and tuning them myself. The options with a Holley ECU are nearly unlimited and the fine tuning capability is awesome. I'm sure some wizards can get a Carb setup to run incredible as well; however, with the Holley Sniper it's like snapping your fingers. Things such as Rev Limit, Temps, MAP, TPS, AFR, Timing, Enrichment, Idle Control, etc. all at your fingertips.

Anyways, besides all of the known benefits, anyone running Holley EFI on their offshore boats or know of someone who is? I'm just trying to think of any problems or differences that would come up in marine application. All opinions welcomed! (Including just to leave it alone and save the ~$8k LOL).

You need to find ICDEDPPL thread, he converted from carbs to Holley efi on roots blowers motors..........Im sure he'll see this post.

Thanks F-2, I will do some digging to see if I can find it in his profile. If anybody has anything else, add away!

I personally don't own anything running HEFI, but I have worked with a couple dozen people who have switched their boats, and more lately, a bunch of air boats. A small learning curve, but no one seems interested in going back. Compared to all the other aftermarket ECU options out there, bang for the buck, a great choice.

One fact you won't hear from Holley, and that initially got me involved with some members here, is the dash options aren't very marine friendly. Hard to read in direct sunlight. But if you all ready have gauges your happy with, not an issue. If you do plan to upgrade the gauges to digital or a MFD, I have that side covered.

-K

Awesome thank you both. Continuing to research this...

I haven`t seen the post yet .

I have the Terminator TB`s , with those 8 injectors my duty cycle is up there . for over 1000hp you`ll have to go with bigger TB`s IMOP
The sniper I believe is good for 1200hp (the new kit)
It seems to be geared more towards blown applications.

My set up wasn`t so I had to do a bunch of rewiring and moving of sensors that were useless above the blower like IAT, map.. wiring the IAC`s in paralel and such.
With efi and IAC`s you can run the engines much leaner (13.5vs low 12s ) it`s much healthier for the engine.

Gas savings are significant . fuel curve is excellent as you know.
gauges that run off one data wire and piggy back off each is great. No more miles of sender wires/hoses
tons of info at your fingerprints
Turbo is right , the screens are hard to read in sunlight.
Setting up safety parameters may save the engine and make it all worth it in just that one respect.

Alex Haxby set me up with everything and was great with tech support. (I took the 101 holley class in KY, that helped some and the cheater book you get is great)
Tuning the surge out took a couple days on the water. Learned the "self tuning" is dumb and screws everything up on a blower motor .

Another guy that can tune you remotely is : https://www.fastmanefi.com/tuning-help
Seems to really know his stuff.
Keep in mind I`ve only ran it for 3 days at the end of the year.
Ran great and started even in 40* temps , idled very well even without a warm up .
Mounting the coils was a pain.
Took the schematics to a printer and blew them up, that helps a LOT!! lol

Try this link

https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...-everyone.html

Alright so this is the setup I'd be going towards: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/550-531

I have distributors and MSDs that will allow the Sniper to control timing. I would need to do a high pressure fuel setup (high pressure pump, filter, regulator, filter, and return line) but that's fairly simple.

I'd have to have my headers or exhaust pipe (wet) sent out to have O2 ports put in. Probably plan on buying a fresh pair of O2 sensors every summer.

I am in the process of converting 525SC clones to Sniper, engines were freshened and dynoed at around 620 with the sniper and Daytona ignition. I don't have the boat back together yet for real world testing. The options and tuning of the Sniper system seem excellent. however the cost was significant, after buying the unit the fuel pumps, filters, lines and relays added up. I made my own wedges for the manifolds for the O2 sensors.
I'm really looking forward to trying it out on the water

Cool, be sure to post up on how it runs. The tuning capabilities are very good, you'll love it once you're running the boat. Plus the monitoring and peace of mind factor will be much greater.

Looks like it would be around $6,000 for the full conversion at minimum for my setup. Honestly that's not horrible, considering other figures I've dropped on this here boat LOL.

At this point one of my worries is how reliable the O2 sensor will be in the headers as well as picking the right fuel pumps.

Not a blower motor but did add it to my rebuilt 502, have 18 hrs and seems to be running fine,
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b52228a738.jpg

I had the o2 bungs welded into my Lightning Headers at the factory. I would get about 30 mins out of a sensor before it would go bad from moisture. Of course depends on your cam choice, style of exhaust etc. When the o2 goes bad the Holley HP that I was running would default to full rich if you were running in learn mode. So what I did was run the o2 sensors in learn. Once all the learning was complete. Shut them off and pull them out permanently.

I would assume if you run full dry exhaust that issue would go away correct?

If I'm unable to run an O2 for at least a month or two that might severely change my mind. Being able to monitor AFRs and have the safeguard of the learn or even just being able to datalog is one of the biggest reasons to go with such a setup.

Kinda defeats the whole purpose of EFI and fuel compensation to pull the 02`s.
I converted mine to run 80% dry and there`s a thread how to keep 02`s alive in teh tech section.

yes it would

I too and looking into the sniper system for my twin turbo blow thru 454's Join the Holley Sniper EFI owners and tech facebook group. This is a group that Holley monitors and the techs provide very quick feedback. from reading most of the peoples problems stem from bad wiring practices and emi. Keep wires away from spark plug wires. And make sure your fuel system is solid.

Are you running a thermostat ? Would like to add EFI to my old race boat motor. But it doesn't have a thermostat.

I don`t run a stat, not sure why it would make any difference . All coolant enrichment is turned off.

I used a big marine cooler and an oil thermostat...in my setups to keep engine oil up to temp. Was very impressed with my temps even in 50° water.

If I understand it,the learning will not turn on until the motor is at 160 deg. ?

Yep this is true on my current Sniper setups. That may pose a bit of a problem, if I remember correctly my engines run pretty darn cool. I am not sure where the temp sensor is at, they recommend a cylinder head pickup which I believe is going to read hotter than where it is now.

However, even with "Learn" inactive, the system still corrects and makes "Closed loop" changes on the fly to keep everything safe and at your commanded target AFRs and Timing table specifications. However, these changes do not write into the Learn table without the engine being fully warmed. So essentially it may do the same 20% correction every time coming out of the launch on fuel, but without being over 160, it's not going to save that.

I'm getting to be a pretty good tuner with the Holley system and with data-logging and monitoring am able to perfect and apply the closed loop corrections even without the aid of the learn table.

Sniper must be different ...I uncheck the box and done . V5 software
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...f2c06080be.jpg

No sir, Sniper has the same exact screen. Closed Loop is different than learn mode. The only time you would want the Closed loop to be restricted based on RPM/CTS/TPS etc. are very specific situations. Like perhaps, if you have a decelerations fuel cutoff tables turned on and want it to leave <1500 RPM alone, or if you don't want it making closed loop corrections to your hot or cold idle etc. Closed Loop are UNSAVED percentage (%) corrections from 0-100 that the computer automatically makes during all situations to maintain your commanded level of fuel and functions off of the O2 sensor constantly. Also, worth noting that once you have a good tune in place, you will want to significantly decrease the compensation limits across the board. Usually something around 25% at first and then it can be further reduced to 2%ish in the idle range and 10% in other areas. This also protects against O2 sensor decay. Notice your table is 100% across the board in that pic which basically means at any point the computer can make serious corrections when you might not want it to.

Learn always requires 160 and above. Learn changes are actual sticking changes made to the Learn table which is separate from your Base table. They function over the top of each other. Without "Transferring To Base" or making manual changes to the Base, the Base table always remains the same as setup upon install. Then the Learn table functions over the top of it to make changes when above 160 to correct. These changes are percentage modifiers of the Base table. The reason learn requires 160 on the CTS is because the system is based upon normal operating temps. Then you have Startup Enrichment, Coolant Temp Enrichment, etc. to correct for different temps, throttle position, etc. But Base is always around normal operating temps and then all of the modifier tables are variations upon that.

If you haven't already, you want to let a good learn built up, Transfer it to Base, then spend some time CAREFULLY manually smoothing the graph. That is the most important part. Also, make sure your Spark (if applicable) and commanded AFR tables are relatively smooth and safe.

Great points, Thor39

The coolant temperature does not effect the learn parameters. The coolant enrichment must be at 100% in order for the learn to activate. Same thinking as Thor pointed out, no point in modifying your fuel table before the engine is up to temp, but the software lets you determine what point warmed up is.

So are you saying that if I go into Coolant Enrichment and define 100% Enrichment at 80 degrees on the CTS the learn mode will kick on at that point and I'll see "Learn Active" on the dash? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm pretty sure Holley has that 160 temp set there across the board. I have not read ANYWHERE that you can change the temp of the Learn model activating and I've read a lot of documents, threads, and posts on Holley EFI forums etc. I really wish I could lower it for cold idle etc. at least in my earlier days of tuning when it was taking me longer to figure things out. If you're right I'll be happily surprised. Thanks.

On the HP and Dominator systems, yes your learn goes active when the coolant temp enrichment is 100%. Remember the system interpolates between table values so if you have 120% at 80 degrees and 100% at 100 degrees and your engine temps drop below 100 degrees the learning will shut off.

I run in Lake Michigan with no thermostat. My water temps run right around a 100 degrees and I use closed loop and learn while running.

Thank you! This helps a lot. Excited to play with this. So all I have to do is go to my coolant enrichment table/graph tool and position 100% enrichment at a lower temp and learn will then kick in? I will experiment to make sure this is true so don't feel like you're being held responsible here, LOL, but just wondering on the process. Thanks again, very helpful.

That`s not my actual tune just pulled up the software on my PC
I never see more than 110* and learn is what actually screwed us up for idle tuning so as far as I know learn works at any temp.
My compensation limits are set at 15% . I monitor those and if I start to see them getting closer to 15% (usually around 5% unless it`s a cold start) then I`ll know my 02`s are going to $hit.
Either way not having a stat has not affected anything and learn kicks in right away even at 50* temps, no thermostat necessary
.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...3fb64e6d43.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...e21c7819de.jpg


Like Kris said .. (no temp requirement)

I don`t think I gave that table a whole lot of thought .. I believe that was a base tune from Haxby.

Well, that's a bit different than what the manuals say for the Sniper. Maybe they assume the Sniper is more aimed at non-professional tuner users.

From my brief research, it looks like if I turn the Enrichment to 100% at X temp and turn the A/F Ratio Offset to 0 at X temp, it will then enter learn mode at that X temp. Definitely something to utilize for a marine application.

*EDIT*

Just wanted to add, I appreciate the input! This has helped a lot already.

If you are not using the Sniper for your dash you could run a resistor and trick the computer into thinking it's at 160°F when it is more like 120°F. Did this with the Fast EZ efi system when running a 140°F thermostat.

I'm going to be installing my Holley HP systems soon. Probably going to be asking questions here shortly. I am new to this system.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...6470fe7c80.jpg

Good time to start a fight. LOL Wet or dry,TBI or Runner injector ?
I have all the N/A 840 BG stuff with a Victor Jr . So I don't really need to have a new manifold,but ?

I was pretty happy with my Sniper on my 509. Don't skimp on the fuel system and with careful wiring it's pretty much plug and play. Due to a short season and other gremlins (alternator cable was broken in the jacket) I didn't get much time with it but it was pretty straightforward. A couple of challenges were I was not able to get the IAC down under 30% where it's suppose to be under 10 or 12 or so (It's been a long while since I've looked at the manual) so it whistles at idle. Jeff Harris commented that this can be a common challenge.

A side note is the fuel smell is actually worse than the carb that I had. Perhaps it can be tuned out but I've even tried setting the idle AFR to 14.2 and it's still there, and a quick look on the internetz shows that it's a common issue with injectors so close to the top of the TB.

Genvi 509, airgap intake, 525EFI cam. 10:1CR

Just don't under any circumstances buy a Fitech, cheap, Chinese built GARBAGE!. I built a 550 hp sbc for a customer, e85 deal. I ran it on my dyno carbed then with the customer provided (new in box) 1200 fitech. Everything seemed ok, a few things that I wasn't fond of though. Got it in the vehicle, have accell settings, gain settings etc maxed out, still lean on a quick tip in. Then things just got ALOT better (yeah right), a injector stuck even with a 10 micron inlet filter. Pulled injectors out and flowed them on my ASNU injector machine, one of the 4 on one side has such a weak coil it does not EVER fire above 35/36 psi (system runs at 4 bar/58 psi) , flows fairly even up to THAT point, its NOT dirty. Flowed the 4 from other side, 2 of the 4 do not fire above 50/52 psi, so I essentially dynoed it on 5 injectors. I did wonder why my idle pw was quite high but the linkage is 1-1 , open plenum intake and 2" carb spacer so there was enough fuel from the 5 75# injectors it never went lean. I have seen this before, about 2 years ago I bought a set of "genuine merc oem" magghetti marrelli injectors for a 454/502 mag off ebay to test, well, they DEFINITELY were NOT "genuine" anything, they were EXACT Chinese copy's, hence the 180$ a set price new. What they did is started clipping or failing to lift the pintle around 35 to 40 psi, I hear the Chinese use less copper or whatever in the coils so they are "weak", by 45 psi non of them would flow at all, literally shut off. A "good" siemans deka injector doesn't do this even at 85 or 90 psi. Well, I joined the Fitech forum on FB, posted up the video I took of my testing and quickly heard from several people theve seen the same issue. Even Fitechs good ones quit at 62 to 65 psi, JUNK! I went thru great pains to retrofit different injectors into it (whittling away on TB to get it to bolt together). I have NOT used a Holley Sniper yet so I have no opinion on them as of right now but thought Id pass on my findings! Smitty

That's just what I don't want to do. Thinking that maybe the Edelbrock Pro-Flo 4 may be a way to go ? But would like to use all my old stuff.

Valako (JimV) has been running the Fast EZ EFI 2.0 system on a customers/his new boat since 2014. Pretty nice system and very user friendly. Keep the O2s dry with the extensions and it has been very relaiable.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...16485ab1c3.jpg
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