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-   -   Need help with excessive oil getting into cylinders on new build (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/368971-need-help-excessive-oil-getting-into-cylinders-new-build.html)

underpsi68 10-16-2020 10:47 PM


Originally Posted by zz28zz (Post 4761971)
Seeing any oil in the intake runners?

Crazy oil on head intake ports, all 8. Single plane carb intake(converted to efi). Just oil in lower part of intake runners. Just a bit up from intake gasket. Upper portion of intake is bone dry. Again doesn't appear to be the turbos.

Oil can only be coming from rings, intake gasket, valve guides, valve seals or intake rocker bolts. And keep in mind it is all 8 cylinders.

I'll take some pictures of the heads and intake tomorrow. I did not clean them yet.

This picture was looking down the intake towards the heads. Also another picture of oil sitting on closed valve. This is what was left after the engine ran. Even if i had no valve seals i don't think that much oil would get through.

I'm still thinking hone because that was the only thing that probably stayed the same all 4 builds. Again just a guess now. I'm not looking forward to putting it together again till I figure this out.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...472bb94022.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...d92fa822b0.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...ca18417d50.jpg

underpsi68 10-16-2020 10:48 PM


Originally Posted by zz28zz (Post 4761979)
Guess I should have said runners in the intake manifold as opposed to in the head. I do see oil in the intake runners of the heads. Reason I asked was if a malfunctioning PCV sys ( if present) might be responsible for oil burning. Kinda lines up with "after a hard run" (elevated crankcase press) and "heavy deceleration" (super high intake vacuum). Just a thought.

No pcv on the engine.

mcollinstn 10-16-2020 10:50 PM

Viton seals on the intake valves should do it.
if your turbo/intake plumbing is clean, then it's not turbo seals. There's only one other place that you'll get oil on the intake valve, and that's from "above".

zz28zz 10-16-2020 11:34 PM

Does sound like bad intake valve seals but all 8 cyls, on a fresh build???
Have you verified the oil drain back passages in the heads are completely unobstructed? I could see oil getting past all 8 intake valve seals if they were submerged.

Edit
BTW, this might explain why its happy on the dyno too.. Under hard excelleration, all the oil is pushed towards the rear drain back passage. On the dyno, oil would use both (front and rear) drain back passages.

underpsi68 10-17-2020 06:13 AM

New viton seals installed multiple times. Running 11/32 valves. Went as far as installing 8mm seals on the intake. No difference. On the last build I went as far as running it on a carb in my driveway at an 1800rpm idle(high vacuum) with turbos spinning but the piping just blowing in the atmosphere. Slight incline on driveway. Smoking like a freight train. It wasn't residue oil that was sitting that had to burn off. After the high idle run is when I got the picture of the oil sitting on the valve. Seems to me it happens more under vac, just a guess.

Same block and heads were used first 3 builds as well as on my last single turbo setup. Ran it for last 10 years and spun it to 7500rpms with no issues.

Funny thing on the dyno he had a slight oil pressure drop during the first pull. He was sucking the pan dry. He said it was common. He added another qt of oil and all was good. He said it was the perfect storm where the engine is level on the dyno and could fill the heads up with oil and no g force with the car accelerating forcing the oil towards the back of the head/drain.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...0c61cf7347.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...df156da999.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...2de380ba95.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...4a3cbc10db.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...6e48329e12.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...ebfc6b6175.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...5aac5c2c4a.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b2a889b9af.jpg

speicher lane 10-17-2020 06:56 AM

Are all the Oil rings lined up the same way as in the pic with the top ring gap over the wrist pin?

What oil are you breaking in on the dyno and when you are having issues in the car?

underpsi68 10-17-2020 07:15 AM

I have 7 pistons with the rings still on them. I'll check ring orientation when I get home later and report back.

Different oil each time. First build was one qt drivem 5-30 break in oil with remaining 5-30 reg oil. 2nd build all oil was driven 5-30 break in oil. 3rd and 4th builder put oil in. I know he said he usually just uses plain 5-30. I brought him 7qts of driven bresk in oil for last build. Not sure what he used. He workmanship was Excellent. Bearings look perfect.

I have always ran 15-50/20-50 on this engine. I thought the thinner oil might have been an issue. Last build I drained oil and put 10-40 in. I thought there was some improvement so I drain it and put in 20-50. Was smoking badly again. All of this was during 30 miles and 30 minutes of run time. That's when the engine was pulled with frustration.

Nothing makes sense. Something is being over looked.

F-2 Speedy 10-17-2020 08:31 AM

is this a small block ford ?

underpsi68 10-17-2020 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by F-2 Speedy (Post 4762010)
did you thread seal the through bolt holes on the intake ?

The intake rocker hold down bolts? Yes, many times. You can see all threads completely sealed. No oil on threads when removed. Had to fight it out to the last thread.

Also pressurized intake on 2 different build looks for leaks. Put 1" steel plate over carb pad on intake, installed air fitting, removed all intake rockers and put 30-40psi in looking for leaks. None found. Just heard occasional very faint tiny pop. Thinking it was valve seals. Hardly there but wanted to mention.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...3836c258e5.jpg

zz28zz 10-17-2020 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by underpsi68 (Post 4761996)
Funny thing on the dyno he had a slight oil pressure drop during the first pull. He was sucking the pan dry. He said it was common. He added another qt of oil and all was good. He said it was the perfect storm where the engine is level on the dyno and could fill the heads up with oil and no g force with the car accelerating forcing the oil towards the back of the head/drain.

This seems to add credence to the theory that oil isn't draining back down from top side of heads quick enough. You can "gasket match" (using old head gasket) the oil return holes in head to same holes in block to see how well they align. I've heard of people "moving" the holes slightly to improve alignment. I may be off in left field here, but it's a quick and easy thing to verify/eliminate.

Just realized this is a Ford which I have very little experience with. Don't they have oil return passages at front and back of head? Hard to tell from the pics.


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