We hurt the 496....
10-25-2024 | 09:50 AM
#181
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From: Merritt Island, FL
I totally get the built not bought, we do it a lot.
On the nothing direct except MerCathode, also do not forget about the auto run for the bilge pump. On mine on lead is direct and the manual on all go through the switch, on both boats.
I know a lot say well I never leave the boat in the water etc. Had a buddy that thought and went down to the dock that he left it at and almost lost the boat because a leak on the through prop exhaust (deck boat).
On the nothing direct except MerCathode, also do not forget about the auto run for the bilge pump. On mine on lead is direct and the manual on all go through the switch, on both boats.
I know a lot say well I never leave the boat in the water etc. Had a buddy that thought and went down to the dock that he left it at and almost lost the boat because a leak on the through prop exhaust (deck boat).
Wildman,
Typically, I am 100% in agreement with this mentality. Buying is almost always cheaper and easier than making. But, quite often, I can't buy what I actually want. Be it quality or design, what's market available just doesn't suit my needs. In this case, I am very particular about how I want to set it up, mostly due to space constraints. If I were doing a full resto-mod, where I were going to strip everything out and start from scratch, I would likely just buy something, and plan accordingly. But I'm not doing that. I'm working with what is already there, and just correcting what we see as sub-par wiring.
Plus.... I like making stuff. There's just something very satisfying about looking at a completed project and reflecting on the fact that "I made that". It's particularly rewarding to see it on other people's boats.
Ultimately, I am going to have the whole ship running off the battery switch; nothing coming straight off a battery except the MerCathode.. I don't want to ever by drawing on both batteries at once, except in those rare occasions when fate and poor decisions make it necessary, or drawing on a battery that isn't actively being charged while running. I'm going to have a 4ga wire running from the switch to a fused distribution block (I bought that.), then running to the fuel pump, trim pump, main breaker box and ECM as isolated circuits. Don't worry, it's fairly well protected from the elements. If water is getting to this, I have bigger problems than a short in the system.
Shockingly, I found a 12v HOT strap, completely exposed, under the dash, during the oil temp gage project. I covered it with several layers of 3" wide duct tape.
Thanks. Brad.
Typically, I am 100% in agreement with this mentality. Buying is almost always cheaper and easier than making. But, quite often, I can't buy what I actually want. Be it quality or design, what's market available just doesn't suit my needs. In this case, I am very particular about how I want to set it up, mostly due to space constraints. If I were doing a full resto-mod, where I were going to strip everything out and start from scratch, I would likely just buy something, and plan accordingly. But I'm not doing that. I'm working with what is already there, and just correcting what we see as sub-par wiring.
Plus.... I like making stuff. There's just something very satisfying about looking at a completed project and reflecting on the fact that "I made that". It's particularly rewarding to see it on other people's boats.
Ultimately, I am going to have the whole ship running off the battery switch; nothing coming straight off a battery except the MerCathode.. I don't want to ever by drawing on both batteries at once, except in those rare occasions when fate and poor decisions make it necessary, or drawing on a battery that isn't actively being charged while running. I'm going to have a 4ga wire running from the switch to a fused distribution block (I bought that.), then running to the fuel pump, trim pump, main breaker box and ECM as isolated circuits. Don't worry, it's fairly well protected from the elements. If water is getting to this, I have bigger problems than a short in the system.
Shockingly, I found a 12v HOT strap, completely exposed, under the dash, during the oil temp gage project. I covered it with several layers of 3" wide duct tape.
Thanks. Brad.
10-25-2024 | 01:42 PM
#182
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From: On A Dirt Floor
10-25-2024 | 02:48 PM
#183
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From: SW Ohio
I totally get the built not bought, we do it a lot.
On the nothing direct except MerCathode, also do not forget about the auto run for the bilge pump. On mine on lead is direct and the manual on all go through the switch, on both boats.
I know a lot say well I never leave the boat in the water etc. Had a buddy that thought and went down to the dock that he left it at and almost lost the boat because a leak on the through prop exhaust (deck boat).
On the nothing direct except MerCathode, also do not forget about the auto run for the bilge pump. On mine on lead is direct and the manual on all go through the switch, on both boats.
I know a lot say well I never leave the boat in the water etc. Had a buddy that thought and went down to the dock that he left it at and almost lost the boat because a leak on the through prop exhaust (deck boat).
The way it WAS wired was that the switched power came from the helm and the auto power came directly from the battery. The auto power is now coming from the center post from the switch. We almost never leave the boat in the water overnight, and we don't turn the batteries off then.
Thanks. Brad.
Last edited by Brad Christy; 10-26-2024 at 05:36 AM.
10-26-2024 | 06:05 AM
#184
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From: SW Ohio
Guys,
So, I'm working on my wiring. As stated above, the boat has been wired for 22yrs and counting with two batteries and a Perko switch between them, with the vast majority of the boat being powered from the center/output post of said switch, including, I have to assume, the Motorola 555 ECM that is on the Merc 496. Literally, the ONLY thing that have not supplied power through said switch has been the bilge and the trim pump. Both of those have been drawing power directly from the port battery, presumably because that's the side both the breaker panel with the "bilge pump" breaker is in and the side the trim pump is on. With the new wiring, the only thing I'm changing is that these two components will be powered from the Perko, and the addition of the fuel pump (relay triggered from the ECM), with proper fusing and adequate wiring to support said component. I'm being told that I HAVE to power the Holley ECM directly from the battery. And, sure enough, I've been provided links for advisories, from Holley, indicating as much. The itch comes from that fact that, in exactly ZERO of these advisories, are they dealing with a multi-battery setup, let alone mentioning the use of a selector switch for the purpose of isolating these multiple batteries, like, I think it's safe to say, pretty much every single one of us use in our boats. While I'm not discounting these advisories, or throwing any of the individuals pointing them out under the bus, I've run just about every wiring scenario through my head, and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how to wire directly to either battery, and not leave that battery without a charge circuit or eliminate any benefit of a switch-selected, multi-battery set up. I also cannot understand what, exactly, the difference is between wiring the ECM directly to either battery and wiring it to the center post of the Perko, which is, in turn, wired directly to the batteries. It's the exact same charging circuit the boat has always had. The only thing I've changed is that I've added is a few feet of 4ga wire and a distribution block and the brand of ECM. Again.... The 555 hasn't had a problem with its power coming from the Perko for the last 22yrs, nor has any of the other boats out there with pretty much the exact same setup. Is Holly openly admitting their ECM is even more fragile than the 555? Or have they just not taken a switch-selected, multi-battery setup, almost universally implemented in the marine market, into account?
Care to weigh in on this?
Thanks. Brad.
So, I'm working on my wiring. As stated above, the boat has been wired for 22yrs and counting with two batteries and a Perko switch between them, with the vast majority of the boat being powered from the center/output post of said switch, including, I have to assume, the Motorola 555 ECM that is on the Merc 496. Literally, the ONLY thing that have not supplied power through said switch has been the bilge and the trim pump. Both of those have been drawing power directly from the port battery, presumably because that's the side both the breaker panel with the "bilge pump" breaker is in and the side the trim pump is on. With the new wiring, the only thing I'm changing is that these two components will be powered from the Perko, and the addition of the fuel pump (relay triggered from the ECM), with proper fusing and adequate wiring to support said component. I'm being told that I HAVE to power the Holley ECM directly from the battery. And, sure enough, I've been provided links for advisories, from Holley, indicating as much. The itch comes from that fact that, in exactly ZERO of these advisories, are they dealing with a multi-battery setup, let alone mentioning the use of a selector switch for the purpose of isolating these multiple batteries, like, I think it's safe to say, pretty much every single one of us use in our boats. While I'm not discounting these advisories, or throwing any of the individuals pointing them out under the bus, I've run just about every wiring scenario through my head, and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how to wire directly to either battery, and not leave that battery without a charge circuit or eliminate any benefit of a switch-selected, multi-battery set up. I also cannot understand what, exactly, the difference is between wiring the ECM directly to either battery and wiring it to the center post of the Perko, which is, in turn, wired directly to the batteries. It's the exact same charging circuit the boat has always had. The only thing I've changed is that I've added is a few feet of 4ga wire and a distribution block and the brand of ECM. Again.... The 555 hasn't had a problem with its power coming from the Perko for the last 22yrs, nor has any of the other boats out there with pretty much the exact same setup. Is Holly openly admitting their ECM is even more fragile than the 555? Or have they just not taken a switch-selected, multi-battery setup, almost universally implemented in the marine market, into account?
Care to weigh in on this?
Thanks. Brad.
Last edited by Brad Christy; 10-26-2024 at 10:34 AM.
10-26-2024 | 08:40 AM
#185
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I would say wire to center post of switch. Holley only cares about their product working correctly and not all variables. There would be no difference in direct to battery vrs the switch post as far as the ECU knows. Holley deals with a lot of people/projects and easiest for them to say go directly to battery.
10-26-2024 | 02:06 PM
#186
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From: Indiana
Brad, agree with zfrilly, think the center post will work. Manufacturers want to ensure there is a good clean 12V source with out interruptions or variation. Going straight to battery probably cuts down on customer support calls in aftermarket world.
10-26-2024 | 07:57 PM
#187
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
Wire it directly to the battery like Holley states. Yes it does cut down on customer support when someone is trashing the product and then are asked, "did you wire it to the battery?" The Holley ECU is voltage sensitive, just like all other aftermarket ECU's (which also state wire directly to the batttery). The battery is the largest filter in your boat for RF interference. I have had my Holley ECU's wired directly to the batteries for years with no issues. Will it work off the post, probably 99 times out of 100. They have to protect themselves for the 1.
10-26-2024 | 09:57 PM
#188
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From: SW Ohio
Wire it directly to the battery like Holley states. Yes it does cut down on customer support when someone is trashing the product and then are asked, "did you wire it to the battery?" The Holley ECU is voltage sensitive, just like all other aftermarket ECU's (which also state wire directly to the batttery). The battery is the largest filter in your boat for RF interference. I have had my Holley ECU's wired directly to the batteries for years with no issues. Will it work off the post, probably 99 times out of 100. They have to protect themselves for the 1.
I don’t disagree with any of that, and I’m not opposed at all to drawing straight from a battery. I’m just trying to figure out how to make it work with my current setup.
As it sits, I don’t have a “starter” battery and a “house” battery. I have “battery 1” and “battery 2”, and the whole boat runs off whichever battery the switch is set to, including the charge circuit. Whichever battery is on is the battery being charged, and the other is not. And, honestly, I like that setup, except the part about not charging the off battery. As it is right now, if I were to wire the ECM directly to, say, battery 1, and I set the switch to battery 2, the engine will run until battery 1 is low enough the ECM shuts down. So, my challenge is to figure out how to charge both batteries without the issue of a dead short battery killing the other. Suggestions?
For the record, I am reading through your HP conversion thread as we speak. I'd be very curious to see how you have your batteries set up.
Thanks. Brad.
Last edited by Brad Christy; 10-27-2024 at 08:25 AM.
10-27-2024 | 10:02 AM
#189
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
Rookie,
I don’t disagree with any of that, and I’m not opposed at all to drawing straight from a battery. I’m just trying to figure out how to make it work with my current setup.
So, my challenge is to figure out how to charge both batteries without the issue of a dead short battery killing the other. Suggestions?
For the record, I am reading through your HP conversion thread as we speak. I'd be very curious to see how you have your batteries set up.
Thanks. Brad.
I don’t disagree with any of that, and I’m not opposed at all to drawing straight from a battery. I’m just trying to figure out how to make it work with my current setup.
So, my challenge is to figure out how to charge both batteries without the issue of a dead short battery killing the other. Suggestions?
For the record, I am reading through your HP conversion thread as we speak. I'd be very curious to see how you have your batteries set up.
Thanks. Brad.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Perko-Ba...Koneo0#overlay
10-27-2024 | 12:16 PM
#190
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From: SW Ohio
You'll probably need to change out your switch and run on all to charge both batteries at the same time.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Perko-Ba...Koneo0#overlay
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Perko-Ba...Koneo0#overlay
Yeah…. That’s not happening. That’s the surest way to need a tow. If you have a faulty battery, it will drain the other battery in no time.
Dan the man turned me on to this:
Automatic Charging Relay
It allows for the charging of both batteries without allowing for any communication between them.
Got the battery switch relocated and mounted
Got the oil filter mount and drive oil reservoir located and “mounted”.
Now that I have all aluminum hardware that is being mounted to the transom, it will all go out for black anodize. When I get it back, I’ll fill all the holes with 4200 and get it all permanently mounted.
Thanks. Brad.
