What besides AT???
 

It's slow around here so thought now would be a good time to get some conversation going.

Let me first off say that I'm not in the market right now but I am always shopping, looking for a deal and always reading this forum to learn more.

I am completely sold on AT's! There isn't anything that I don't like about them but feel when the time comes for me to step up, I won't be able to find one (can't afford new). I have a single now and most likely want twins next. My criteria is no bigger than 35' OAL with a good amount of room and good in the rough. Obviously, I would like it to be fast but I think I would rather have a good handling hull be first over speed since its easier to make a boat go faster than it is to make it handle the rough. I would love to have a 32 or 33 AT but just can't seem to find any. I know that there are only a handful of 33's but, to me, there's only 1 32 out there worth looking at.

Am I worrying too early or should I start thinking about other brands? I have been starting to look at sonic 31ss and scarab 33 avs. The only reason I ask you guys about other brands because you have the best and probably have the best knowledge of what's closest or second best.

Thanks

33 Powerplay. Mine is 34'11" including the platform.

It took me a solid year of looking and kicking the tires on many boats before pulling the trigger. I didn't even buy what I thought I wanted. I looked at an AT, a couple Powerplays, pantera and a couple Sutfens and a Phantom. All around 32-34'. Even put up a "WANTED 33-38" thread which got some real good leads. It is not important to tout what I got as much as it is to say there are many good deals for boats you might not have thought of out there. And they are nice ones. Even if you love the AT don't restrict your search. Other factors are resale if that is important to you, it was not to me. I have found that if you buy a boat no matter how new and they don't make that many the market is smaller for them hence less money they bring. IMO

Would love a Cig but can't justify the added $$ when you figure nothing but a Marauder is outfitted like an AT. We stay on our boat every weekend comfortably crushes big water and run mid 80's how do you beat that?

Yeah its always tough. When you have the money in your pocket can't find what you want. When your not ready to buy you find amazing deals! Happens to all of us

Bwd has some valid points.

There are a ton of cool boats out there, and none of them are perfect. I always like to buy the overall best bang for the buck no matter what the brand. They all use the same parts, and the majority of us "recreational" ,boaters on a budget, Under 100mph, never even use the hulls to their full ability.

I love my Baja, overall I feel its a lot of boat for the money. (its not for sale though) http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/b...utlaw-fun.html

My advice is to buy the best overall value and have extra money left over for FUEL and FUN!

Be patient and you will find a sweet deal when the time is right. And don't worry that it might not be your dream boat, because all of us boaters have a sickness that makes us want MORE "2ft itus". Life changes, wants and needs change, and most likely the next boat you buy won't be your last!

Enjoy!

If you're not ready to buy, then I really wouldn't worry about it now. Make your decisions based on whats out there for sale when you are ready to purchase. I would not be expecting to find any fire sale deals on 32's, but you never know.

As far as whats next best, that depends on your personal wants, tastes and needs.

My mind is 99% set on a 32 or 33 AT but basically wondering if anything really does compare? Like bonesmalon said, it has it all, so why look any further...but my fear is that I won't be able to find one or it would be way out of my price range.

Griff, I'm not looking right now but I always like to keep my eyes open because you never know what your going to come across. I know you can't tell the future and I really shouldn't be looking until I'm ready but I just want to be prepared and have my research in order.

I went through a similar search, and research process, before pulling the trigger this year. I'd been ringing Sydways periodically over the years inquiring about various 37s...keeping tabs on what prices were doing and whether I'd be able to swing it...and (luckily) getting a ride on boatfreak's in a little slop to see what it rode like. I set the 37 as a benchmark, and tried to find something else that fit my boating needs as well. Considering I had ALWAYS wanted a Top Gun, and had made no secret of it, my wife was really surprised that I would be so RATIONAL in choosing the AT, but that surprise didn't last long once she really took into consideration the amenities offered by the AT that weren't possible in the Cig.

That said, when we decided to move up (which happened whilst drinking prior to a Red Hot Chili Peppers concert this June), we knew we wanted a bigger cabin with built-in air conditioning and an actual usable head...hopefully with a microwave and fridge. Twin-step Guns do not have very accomodating cabins...not much more headroom than our 35 Fountain, port-o-pots, no a/c, no other cabin ammenities...so they were out right away. I looked at older, straight-bottom Guns...I actually like the cabin in them, especially the V-berth, but finding the right power/drive combo made it difficult...I was really after STOCK power...and it takes a LOT to get that hull moving. Plus, they are short on amenities as well. Looked at a couple 42 Fountain Lightnings...I have driven that hull and always been impressed by it...they can be had with amenities, but the cabin is just like a longer version of our 35, with a bit more headroom. My wife is the one that shut the door on that one, saying she just didn't want another Fountain. Sonic has all the goodies for sure...but the weight and the straight-bottom turned me off...takes a lot of power to get a 38 Sonic moving in the mid-80s, and I had drive concerns...plus they tend to porpoise. Nor-Tech's older 38s are just...weird...everything on them seems very vertical...they SHOULD have more storage space and useable room, but they just don't. Plus, as a short dude (5'8" on a good day!), I couldn't see over the dash. 39 Nor-Tech was awesome, but couldn't find one in my price range. Looked pretty hard at a 37 Outerlimits Stiletto, but most of them are currently rigged with HUGE power...not interested. There was a gorgeous 39 OL Quattro for sale up in Wisconsin for a price similar to what I paid for the AT, but with Whippled 600s, it was just more than I wanted in the engine dept...plus, even though it had a "full" cabin, it didn't have nearly the comfort that the AT offered.

So, there you go...the long version of my answer to your question.

The short version is "No, there really isn't anything but AT."

I looked at the layout of the 33 Evolution outboard, and was amazed. Nice cabin, enclosed head, available climate control, TV etc... and all of this in a twin outboard version. I've seen a lot of other boats as well. But when you see the overhead storage in the AT, nice cockpit layout, and a civilized cabin, it's not a choice anymore.

I'd own another 33 at ill tell you that. But wow, go for a rip in a 33pp if you get a chance. They give up some cockpit room and might not be as fast but they are solid and capable!

Spoken like a true cult member mike.

Hahaha! Thanks Laz!

Might be heading north this weekend or next if the snow holds on....looks like Kalkaska got a good load!

I want the extra room and I would give up some speed for the room but it sounds like it's just a plus that it doesn't. AT seems to have everything that I want in one package! This is why I feel I am already married to AT!

Yep! Essentially the same hull as the 32 AT including length if you ever plumb-bob one. But ya just can't touch the 33 AT ride! :party-smiley-004:

Seriously though, that cockpit in both those boats are why we built the 33. Ya gotta say we got it "just right"!

I'd like to give a comparison of the 33 AT to PP but somebody sold theirs before I got a chance....:whistle::lolhit:

If you're looking for amenities similar to an AT, I'd bet a Powerquest or Formula might be there. If you're looking for a ride similar to an AT, a Powerplay is there, but a combination of both probably is a pretty tough combo (depending on the years and features of the AT of course).

[QUOTE=rlj676;3821786]I'd like to give a comparison of the 33 AT to PP but somebody sold theirs before I got a chance....:whistle::lolhit:


We will take ya for a rip in my buddy's 32. Doesn't ride as good as the PP but the helm and seating position is exactly the way every boat should be.

Amenities are top notch on the AT fo sho
I have a stupid question not related... so the AT is supposed to be a wave crusher AND not take a ton of HP to run fast.
How is this accomplished?
Characteristics of a wave crusher is weight, but its not heavy since they run fast so how can you crush waves AND be fast?

Yeah I had a 2008 custom 30 Outlaw I had built right from the factory. I got the itch to go bigger, looked at a 42 Tiger at Pier 57 and wasn't impressed, looked at an '09 37 AT with Whippled 525s and didn't want to replace drives monthly...along comes 37 with 525s 2 hrs from home...went to see it and wham...two boat owner. Not the least bit sorry. There's things I'd like to pull from my Outlaw and things from a Cig and add/swap on my AT. Search Bonesmalon or 2012 Buff Poker Run in Thunder and that'll will convince most that AT is not average.

I have always wanted to ask, everyone says that a straight bottom hull rides better then stepped hulls.

How does the non step 37 compare to the step 37?

I was told when they added the step they gained 8 mph. A big part of rough water taming is balance too. A boat that pops up is no friggen good. My 37 flies flat. You see Pats 37 in his avatar...that tells the story. Guys I run with will back off way before I do and they're running formulas and hustlers. I have to believe it would come down to how big of stones we have if I came up against a 39 TG in the rough.

I'm sorry to sound stupid, but can elaborate on this more? Is the PP the same hull as the 32 AT or the 32 and 33 AT are the same hull?

Can you just build me a 33 and sell it to me at 1/2 price for R+D so I can quit going nuts!?!? I'm like a little kid the night before christmas that can't wait for presents, only I cant wait to be a part of the cult!

Not the same hull as a PP. What is your budget? There are some nice 32 AT's that pop up from time to time.

32AT and 33PP came from the same roots, way back when; but Pat had modified the strakes several times over the years which contributes to different ride charactieristics. I think we can agree to disagree which one rides better. AT and PP were very much so friendly compeitors when the original PP was in play.

The 33AT is a 9/10s scale design of the 37AT; pretty much literally. The 33AT and the 37AT share the EXACT same cockpit dimensions; done on purpose.

The 32AT and 33AT really do not compare. COMPLETELY different boats.

It's also difficult to compare a 37AT 'Offshore' (straightbottom) with a 37AT 'Excess' as layups, materials, weights/densities and other attriutes have evolved in the same timeframes. That said, on paper; 13-15% better speed efficiency step over straight. But we play with the step on occasion as well. :D

I've posted before on the DDC hull, and why it rides different than a straight bottom, AND why it's different and better (and in many folks' opinion) than other step bottom hulls. DDC has the word "duo" in it. Hint: It's two hulls at the same time.

Bones, you have my curiousity piqued. What attribute would you take from a 30 Outlaw and put on an AT? The abundant engine room access? :eek: :drink:

32 AT and 33 PP are similar, but not the same. The 33 AT is a newer design and based off the design of the 37 as Sydwayz said.
The cockpit area in the 32 AT and 33 PP could use aother 6-12" of length between the bolsters and backseat.
The 32 AT is a deeper boat with more freeboard than the 33 PP.

Sommerfliesby- I'm surprised you did not mention the 38 PowerPlay in your search for a boat, hard to beat the room in those and from what I hear a pretty solid ride. You ended up with a very sweet looking ride though, looking forward to seeing it up at Boyne Thunder.

As far as room in a 32'-34' boat you're not going to beat a Powerquest Vyper, they are huge. Jordan's (288Kid) 33 had much more room in the cockpit and more in the cabin than my 33, I haven't been in a 32 but they look similar to the 33 as far as useable room. I do like the ride of the PowerPlay better BUT the 33PP isn't what your looking for if you're wanting a lot of room. I've seen a few 32's come around here and there and not priced bad either... Jay, I thought your buddy was going to be putting his up?

It sounds like you are pretty convinced of wanted an AT regardless so why not wait for one? You know as soon as you buy something else one is going to pop up and you're going to be pissed, it always works that way lol. Patience is your friend. Good luck!

I've only ever SEEN one 38 Powerplay! Not too many 37 ATs around...and even FEWER 38 PPs, so it never really entered the radar.

Agree 100% on the 34 Powerquest...TONS of room in that boat, and a sharp-looking design with a windscreen (not a big fan of windshield boats). When I was shopping for my first boat (which ended up being a 29 Powerquest), I had a dealer tell me I'd have no trouble pulling a 34 Vyper with my V8 Grand Cherokee. Lol. Some guys will say anything to get you to move up, I guess.

Keeps going back and forth on selling. I'll post something in the AT section if he does decide to sell.

Haha... I also had a 29 PQ, and I thought my half ton was going to have a stroke going up any hill of considerable size... A grand Cherokee would be just plain unsafe! Might as well hook her up to a diesel chevette! :lolhit:

Guy by me tows a blown 29 Outlaw with a Trailblazer. :lolhit:

Guys, thanks for all the replies! I am learning a lot and enjoying the read.

PPJ - I'm not ready to buy yet, probably be a couple of years...just trying to get my ducks in a row. Before I even started this thread I was in love with the 33 AT but there just aren't enough out there to be had. I have been window shopping for AT's for a couple of years now and they are hard to find. I feel I have a better chance of finding and being able to afford a 32.

Sure did. We got 16" at our house overnight official report was 15". See you up there soon.

As said above that 33's are nonexistent and 32's are slim to nil.
The only 32's that I know of that I would consider is the one in the classifieds with 496 HO's but seems nice but a little and makes me wonder why everything was replaced?
The pier 57 redo...this boat is in my backyard and it came out awesome but I don't think Scott will sell it. He will probably keep it for a show piece. If he does sell it, it will probably be priced up there with a 33, so the 33 would be the choice.
Also saw one on Craigslist from Miami...has boxes and 525sc's. This one is interesting to me because of the setup but the saltwater scares me so much that it doesn't interest me.

Keep the info coming about the 32 and 33's. Would love to learn everything about them. Pics, speeds with what power, how or if boxes helps.

Powerplays are as hard to find as well but would like to here if any other mainstream boats "somewhat" compare. My heart is with AT and will probably have to wait as long as it takes for the right one to come along or win the lotto but just wondering.

Thanks!

How about a 33PP with outboards?

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...MERCURY-300X-s

Thats cool. You have time to find a nice one. Can't beat the amenities in the AT especially for overnight. My buddy made a filler for the lounge and can sleep 4 adults.

It was a repoed boat that was partially stripped and was not taken care off. It was never damaged or under water, at least not prior to 2007. Mainly it was just neglected.

I build them "heavy". Not a resin bucket but a very thorough and expensive lay-up where everything is double bonded and will not come apart. Essentially what we refer to in the bodyshop as a unibody.

The hull design kinda counteracts the weight and gives it speed.

In a different business where we repair and paint/ graphic boats I see failures from some high profile builders that make me shake my head as to why they would be put in a position of liability and warranty for the sake of a few MPH.

There was a period of time where we ran faster and were lighter than many builders but warranty issues made me rethink being the fastest in smooth water to being the most fearless in rough water.

I chose the rough water. Hence a boat that rides very well in rough water but is agile and quick through design. When I land that solid "thump" is all I want to hear.

So the answer to your question really is that it is a wave crusher with a combination of weight and hull design but at the same time fast to hull design alone. DDC patented. I don't see a patented hull design with any of the competition but many will pay $100k+ to get a boat that doesn't handle safely and has warranty issues for a better advertised name.

Why?

[QUOTE=ActiveThunder;3822355

There was a period of time where we ran faster and were lighter than many builders but warranty issues made me rethink being the fastest in smooth water to being the most fearless in rough water.

I chose the rough water. Hence a boat that rides very well in rough water but is agile and quick through design. When I land that solid "thump" is all I want to hear.



If more went that route less would break up. I can think of a few...

I much prefer playing in the rough over all out speed on flat water. Good job!

[QUOTE=Bad-Influence;3821992]Keep the info coming about the 32 and 33's. Would love to learn everything about them. Pics, speeds with what power, how or if boxes helps.

Powerplays are as hard to find as well but would like to here if any other mainstream boats "somewhat" compare. My heart is with AT and will probably have to wait as long as it takes for the right one to come along or win the lotto but just wondering.

Thanks![/QUOTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcYIJ...e_gdata_player

Please don't take this as any kind of correction but most of the old V-bottoms are pretty much the same. The 32 AT and the 33 PP as well. The PP measures 32' and the AT measure 31'6". All boat builders lie about the length. Sorry, but it's the truth. Tell me you've never lied about size.....

Both my boats and Dan's boats had long, straight keels with wider lifting strakes in approximately the same place. If you can get Steve Koss to way in he would explain better.

Why do the handle well and fly so level? Go to your local "rack and stack" and walk under the boats and look up.

Where do the inner lifting strakes end?

A 45' Sonic ends where a 33 Sonics end. Same with Cig and so on and on. But only on the Vees. They stretched the boats but not the lifting strakes (aka WING). Good reason why the porpoise and nose dive all over the place. They have no lift!

Simple reason any good ol' 32 AT or 33 PP will run better with the big boys! We fly level and true.

BTW, before I bought AT I had a 30 Sonic SS and spent time at PP discussing a new 33. But I am 6-1 and slightly larger than Weinstein and just didn't fit. Hence the last 20 years building the ATs.

Done rambling......

B-I., don't give up!