CrazyEd,

I'm afraid that the "facts" you stated are only partially correct. Your right that the boat rolled but your not finishing the whole story. The boat off of Pompano is the AT F2 race boat. They were out testing last year when at the last moment they say a diver way out in the water and made an emergancy turn to avoid hitting him. As far as your "safety" concerns, I have 2 children and we have boated all over the country in all different types of water. I have a 32' and wish I could move up to the 37' step. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to put my kids in that boat and head out anywhere. I know this that when I was looking for an offshore custom boat I too looked at Sonic. And when I asked Pat what his opinion of the boat was he had nothing but good things to say about them. I liked the Sonic vedry much. For me it wasn't so much the differnece in the boats as it was dealing with the man behind the boat. Pat is a straight shooter and doesn't hold back in telling you what's on his mind. He is the most honest person I have come across in the South Florida custom boat building scene. And take this from someone who lost a considerable amount of money trying to get a diffent boat built back in '95. After knowing what had happened to me with this other boat builder Pat did some things for me to earn his respect and trust that NO ONE else was willing to do to get me into a boat.

Ed I would like to know how many other boats you know of that have rolled over. I know of fountains and cigs and outerlimits and I'm sure there are others that have. It all boils down to getting to know you machine and being smart in how you operate it. I'm sure there are plenty of non-stepped boats that have gone over as well. If you make statements in the future I would just ask that you would tell the whole story not just a small part to suit your aggenda.

Todd Kjell

Ed,

If you read my post I asked you some other questions? What Thunder have you seen that had fit and finish and gelcoat problems?

I also asked how you knew about the 28 Thunder sitting on the floor at Active Thunder with a 496 HO in it? Have you been to the factory before? I saw that as one of your first post and made an assumption, one that I thought was correct. If I am mistaken then I apologize for the second time. In my previous post I gave you the reason why my assumptions were made and apologized in advance if I was wrong.

As far as the hiding behind a alias, you have no e-mail address in your profile nor did you sign your name to any of your posts. That is why I asked what your name was.

You are right about a few things, I do love my Thunder and do stick behind it. Take a look at Todds post about what did happen to the f-2 boat and why it rolled. That is why I posted that you need to learn how to handle any boat before you run it.

You stated the facts, but not the whole story about the F-2 boat that rolled. You are correct, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

My posts were always asking you questions and in a good natured way. I was not attacking you, just trying to get some clarification to your response.

That is all folks...

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: thunderdan ]

So Ed, who the hell are you, where do you work, what do you do for a living. What is your real name or at least give us your initials. Your absoutly correct, this board is about information, but correct information, not bull****, if you want to slam or talk about nothing you know about, take it someplace else. I have been to the Sonic factory, my buddy ownes a 42ss, great boat, I almost got talked into by Jay, I bought the Active THunder, for me they gave me everything Sonic did but more, and bottom line its quicker, rides awesome,better cabin, ass kickin graphics,best warranty in the business. Why dont anwser some of our Qs so we can straighten you out on a couple of things.

I got an e mail from Steve @ Thunder today. Yesterday (Sunday) I requested info, he put it in the mail today! Plus the personal reply. I'm impressed. I love my Sonic more than most, but I don't get that kind of service from Jay. Definately has me thinking....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miller:
[QB]Sonic is a semi-custom...

Semi custom???

A while back I posed a question on this board asking for the definition of a “Custom Builder” and could not get one. General consensus was that a custom builder is different things to different people. Now I’m seeing the term “Semi Custom”. WTF

As far as the issue being discussed – I would go with the A/T. They satisfy my definition of a custom builder. Sonic does not.

29Outlaw, I think generally agree on what the terms production, semi-custom and custom can mean. However, discrepancies often arise when trying to fit the terms to particular builders.

To me a production builder is a company that offers a standard boat, standard pricing and only limited options for the models they construct (Baja, Donzi, Scarab (excluding the custom shops some now offer)). If you want the boat you see in a magazine, with Merc. power and nothing out of the ordinary these are the builders to use.

A semi-custom builder is usually a builder that offers a base boat, a set of pre-determined options and standardized options but who is willing to add features to the boat that are not listed on the option sheet for additional money. Usually, adding exotic power, customized amenities and graphics, are priced on request. However, special layups, radical changes to the cabin or interior layup and changes to the molds (like a lowered cockpit floor or flat race-style deck) cannot be accomodated (Sonic and Hustler are good examples).

A true custom builder will, for a price, build your boat anyway you want it, as long as the boat's safety and structural integrity are not compromised (Active Thunder, Outerlimits, Cigarette and Skater are good examples). So, if you want the cockpit floor lowered, new dash panels molds, radically different rigging, race layups, etc. these are the builders you go to.

Anyway, this is how I think of the differences in builders. My definition and the way I view certain manufacturers may not be in agreement with everyone.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

I must agree with Miller, he pretty much hit the nail on the head!

I thought of an example that might help clarify things. Suppose for a minute that you are a professional football player. What's more you play tackle and stand 6'7 and weigh 350lbs. Now, you like boats allot and want a performance boat. You've narrowed your choices to the following: Donzi 38zx; Sonic 386; Active Thunder 37AVH. You would really love to own any of the three but you don't feel comfortable at the helm of any of the models you were on at the Miami Boat Show because the bolsters are too narrow for your hips/waist, when you stand in the bolster your ass sits on the headrest and you feel you're standing both too close to the dash (you're knees hitting is an indication you could use more room) and standing too high above the freeboard. You'd like more cockpit depth. So, you approach the three companies at the Miami Boat Show expressing your interest and tell the person at the display you'd like to pay cash but need some changes made. This is what might happen.

At Donzi display, the salesman says, we'd love to have you in on of our boats. And, goes on to say that you can use the adjustable footrests and McLeod bolsters to lower yourself in the boat and find a way to get comfortable. You try lowering the footrests all the way down and do feel you're more comfortable but still feel too close to the dash and your body is tightly squeezed in the bolster. The salesman mentions that you should be "Criscoed into the bolster in an offshore boat so you don't bounce around" but that because of the nature of the build process Donzi can't change the bolster location to give you more legroom. So, you go to Sonic.

You talk to J. Ross and he listens intently before offering some options. First, he says he can move the bolster stanchions back a few inches, swap the standard stanchion mounts for ones with a longer frame, so that they hit you at your hips and aren't too low to the cockpit floor, and he can make the bolster wider to accomodate your girth. However, he can't do anything about the boats freeboard but does offer to make a custom plexiglass windscreen that is both higher and with a more pronounced rake than his standard version to keep the wind out of your face. You like the options offered and feel you'll be more comfortable in the Sonic than in the Donzi.

Now, you go talk to Pat at Active Thunder. Pat listens to your needs and mentions that this is no big deal and that there are several things he can do depending on how much you want to spend. He can offer all of the options that Sonic offered you on a price point competitive with them. However, if you're still not happy, Pat (for extra money) can lower the cockpit floor by installing custom fuel tanks with 160 gallons of capacity instead of 200 gallons because the 160 gallon tanks require less height under the cockpit sole. In addition, he'll add a custom wrap-around windfairing of solid fiberglass that will be bonded to the existing fairing and will also extend around both sides of the cockpit thus adding as much additional freeboard to the cockpit as you're comfortable with. He assures you that the extension piece will be made of solid fiberglass and will be completely bonded with the existing fairing so well that it will be covered as part of the lifetime hull warranty against any type of failure. He also states that the fairing will be imperceptible to anyone else. In other words, it will look as tough it were part of the original design. Finally, to insure perfect comfort behind the wheel, all the controls and the entire dash layout will be designed around your dimensions and your layout preferencse so that you don't feel cramped. You really like what you hear start walking around the boat again imaging that you own it.

As you're thinking about all of your choices you see a number of coochie mommas hanging all over one of your teammates jut before your teammate disappears into the cabin of the Magnum he just purchased. You promptly forget any ideas you had about a performance boat and run to buy a 50 foot Magnum... You then announce: "Hey Ladies..."

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Miller ]

Hmmm,

When I bought my Donzi I asked them about some pretty strange stuff and they said "...if you got the money, they can make happen".

As far as Baja - I know they will make minor mods for you (moving a seat location back - no problem). When I was at the factory, I saw boats being built with Diesel power, wild power, and even no power. I also saw boats shipping with no paint and also saw boats getting ready for custom paint.

29Outlaw, Donzi, Baja, Scarab and many other traditionally production oriented builders now offer a service whereby they will take a boat off of the production line and customize it for a those with enough money. However, by no means do the majority of the boats they produce undergo this process. I specifically mentioned that some have custom programs and for the sake a giving you and idea of how the terms production, semi-custom and custom are used, exclude the custom shops for the sake of getting an understanding of the general differences.

In any event, maybe my view is wrong and if you choose to disagree with what I wrote, that's cool. I thought I would try to answer your question and be helpful, but it appears you disagree with me and that I wasn't able to assist you. Sorry about that.

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Miller ]