Not knocking the scx its a good drive. I already broke a sc lower taking an easy on it plus i put to many hours on the bravo gears in the sc will wear to fast. I also sold my complete broken sc drives instead of a $9000 dollfar Bandaid fix. Was about to buy scx then fell in love with the arneson. Almost saved enough just waiting for the new scx to make sure its not better....or cheaper. But 99% sure the arneson is a better choice.

Why do you see the tranny as being a PITA? It's in the box, so no need to move engine. Yes you might not loose speed with the SC's, but you won't gain anything either. Not sure what the ADS's weight in at, but I doubt they are heavier than a SCX setup, it is a pretty "simple" design. According to Rik, and others here who did it, about 10 mph. How much power do you need to add to the 575's to get 10 mph, and what will that cost? On top of that, you will have the extra fuel bill, running 700 hp + added reliability issues with the increased hp.

It was up earlier in the thread, about speed vs. cost and reliabllity. The ASD's seem very hard to beat.

You can either go with:
1: 700 hp + IMCO setup at a cost of xxx $
Or you can go with:
2:Stock power + ASD's at a cost of xxx $, and then most likely have the same speed or maybe even a mph or two more.
And of course the fun one:
3: 700hp + ASD's at a cost of xxx $.

What would the cost of option 1 be, if that should run as fast as option 3, not to mention the life of the drives, pushing about 875+ hp per side though the SCX with SC lowers?

It's all in how you look at it.

I ask a serious question. If the Arneson drive
is so good why is it not seen on new boats and why isn't it the only upgrade people do?

I agree totally with SkiDoc, Why aren't Dave's Customs coming standard with them? good Question!! They only run 130-150 out of the box??

I really ask objectively, not making a point. There must be a reason even if it's not a good one necessarily. Mercury dominance would be one, but why hasn't Merc. Produced a similar drive system?

It is seen on new boats, just not normally as a "bravo conversion kit". Arneson makes lots of other drives , some sharing some of the same parts as the bravo conversion minus the stand off box which houses the transmission. MOST newer, more expensive, faster, boats build them new with room under the hatch for a transmission. Arneson was super nice to build a conversion kit for us. WE as typical bravo owners are just to cheap to afford the kit even though its well worth it.

A lot of the new DCB boats have 1350's which merc sells packaged with the M8 SURFACE drive. Very similar to the arneson in what its acomplishing, it just looks different. Personal choice why they did not use the arneson, better package price using all merc. Obviously merc has a monopoly, it does not mean they are better though. The NXT, #6, Ilmor Indy, and BPM are all surface drives. Why, because they are better! IMCO's new drive based off the scx is a "surface drive" also. Why, becasuse they are better!

Why should they? Arneson already has it. BPM has a very similiar design. Mercury just has their own design. The NXT, #6, and M8 are all surface drives. Good drives just like the arneson they just look different.

THE ONLY SURFACE drive that bolts up to a bravo built boat is the arneson at this time. Thats what this thread is about. So if surface drives are the best choice (since every fast boat has them), and the only option for a bravo built boat for a easy bolt on kit is the arneson, then why are we having this conversation?

No hard feelings but people either have enough money for a fast boat/surface drives thats reliable, or we do not and are stuck with bravo based junk! Yes the SCX is better then other bravo based drives but not what everyone is looking for.

I think the fact boat has to be converted, the price tag being around 45000-50000 and set-up might be trial and error with expensive props stops a few people from making the jump. I'm not saying people shouldn't use them and some people will keep pouring money into bravos just to break them. I have seen magazine articles where boats have been built with big hp and sold with imco sc's or Merc Xr's where you just know the owner is going to be constantly breaking them, makes no sense other than the extra price tag to go bigger right off the bat, Smitty

Offshore check out the Scx on my boat it is sufacing. Why was Speed Racer converted from BPM's to 6's?

I think Offshorexcursion has it pretty much dead on with the monopoly. Lots of brands simply refuses to put anything than Merc or Volvo drives on their boats.

Also. The majority of the 20-40 foot pleasure boats run Merc 350-496HO's (now 8.2HO's). For those folks, the Arneson isn't that important, in terms of reliability at least. It would still be a good choise in terms of efficiency.

When building a hi-po cat or vee with twin 1200's or so, then have to choose a drive, Offshorexcursion has a vaild point again with the packages. That is the logical and "easy" choise. But if you choose to run Sterling, TCM, YPM ect. I highly doubt that an ASD #8 or #10 is a more expensive way to go. And when setting up. There are prop testing progams for those running surface drives. Would a set of ASD #6 or #7's put together with a pair of bobtail 496's, 8,2's or even 525's on a formula 353 or the like, be that more of a price deal, compared to a B1? Not to mention all the 28-40 foot cruisers running B3 props. They aren't exactly cheap either, and corrode like hell.

Another thing is. And this is only something I've heard, and got no personal experience with. But the word is, that the Arneson's and BPM style drives are even more efficient than the #6 and M8, and they are also stronger and more durable. Maybe someone has some info on this.

The last thing is. People like what they know. When the Alpha, Bravo, SX, DPX ect. is the "standard", that is what a lot of people want, simply because they know what it is. I've spoken to plenty of pleasure boaters over the years, that don't know what a surface drive is. Even some who did not belive that you could run a surfacing prop. So there is also some education to this. In a lot of people's eyes, a boat outfitted with Arneson's is of less value, because it "scares" them, so to speak.

I think your dead on Razor. With my hull it was not going to be bolt on. I was going to have to glass in the notches in the transom. I could not overcome the possibility that I would not be possible to reverse. For me if there was another similar hull with the drives, that would have made a difference. I think for Arneson to sell more units they are going to have to educate. I would make a deliberate effort to get my
drives on a wide variety of boats even if I had to give some
away. It would be the best marketing they could
do.

That's cool that you made your drives surfacing. If you get me a deal as good as you got I would do the same! The speed racer prob had a rudder. So that's why they changed it just my guess I have not looked into it.

B/C it was setup with a Rudder and the rudder boats are terrible at steering when going slow or docking which is one's first and last impression of the boating day.

I'm getting my pricing together and now I'm looking at props. The top of the list are a set of Hering 17x31 5 blades. Any other comments or suggestions? Best place to buy?

Bblades demo program. It gets expensive trying props buying them.

I decided to go with Arneson drives.

Although I sold my 382....I REALLY want to hear how this turns out!!!!!

Badazz:coolcowboy:

Are you still going to up the power, or will you see how things work with the current power and drives alone?

Start a thread when you start building. Should be an interesting and popular one for sure.

Good luck with it.

I'm going to start with the drives. Last year intercoolers were installed and I had the upper half of the engines inspected. Everything still looked good. So I decided to hold off a few years on the rebuilds.

Awesome! I can't wait to see how it turns out. Good luck with the project.

Drives are ordered and should be delivered within two weeks. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. :)

Congrats! I am really excited for you! Your boat is going to be so much fun to drive now without the worry of breaking! You can stab the throttle and get air any time now. Looking forward to hearing more

Like others, I'm looking forward to hearing about your progress and results. I'm glad to hear you're not touching the power at this point, this way you'll have good before and after data!

Hey any news on this awsome project? Any guestimates on when things start to happen?

Drives should be delivered by the end of this week.

I have a Velocity 280 with a single B1 and after my rebuild I will be around 700hp. Has anyone done a B1 to Arneson on a single drive? I'm really concerned about low speed maneuvering and docking With the cam I have and a single screw it's tough enough now.

kjm5125

Did you recive your drives? A few pic's of the drives and parts before install would be cool:)

There is a 28 Active Thunder with a single Arneson running a 600ci Ford engine.

I ran next to him a bit about a month or so ago, his boat got on plane very well and appeared to handle just fine. The only issue that he had was that since his boat is a straight vee he needed more bowlift than what the surface drive could offer. Still ran in the mid 80s.

With a pad bottom boat like your velocity you could get by with much less lift. I cant comment on low speed / docking with a surface drive, but cant imagine that it could be any worse than my current setup, which is just barely below the bottom, so it might as well be a surface drive.

That's what I'm afraid of. I'm having problems now with a Bravo 1 prop that won't take any trim. Mid 80's with a surface drive, I'd be crying. I'm rebuilding my NA 524 BBC and hope to be in the high 90's with my Bravo 1.

Project started this past Monday, my mechanic said he would take pictures. I'll post when he sends. I'm hoping he will be done tomorrow.

Well you also have to remember that his 28 AT is NOT a velocity or a Kryptonite. it is a heavy straight bottom that relies on bow lift to run well. A bravo AT with 800hp or so only runs in the mid to high 80's depending on setup.

Went to the shop today
 

Conversion should be done next week!!

Nice :D

Looks good, enjoy. Still plenty of summer left.

I'm impressed.
:drink:

Strainers
 

Current set up has water pick ups for the Intercoolers and no strainers.

Do I install sand strainers for the Intercoolers and then install another set of strainers and pick ups for the engine?
-OR-
Feed everything through the existing pickups with just two strainers? My concern is will there be enough water volume to feed the engine and coolers?

I've been looking at Hardin Marine Strainers
http://www.hardin-marine.com/c-1101-sea-strainers.aspx

Thanks

You'll need two pickups per engine. There is more than one way to do this but I believe that this set up is the best. One pick up for the intercooler to the Hardin strainer that you posted. Pressure feed the intercooler. No flow needed at idle. You will need to adjust it for pressure so will need a temporary guage. The second pick up to a strainer then pump. You will need to adjust pressure as well. Both pickups should have cutoffs and pressure relief valves. Set up will take some experimentation to get right.

Thanks, going with 4 pick ups and separate strainers.

Looks sweet.

Rik. Are the extension boxes supposed to sit below the notch? It looks like they do.