What Drive?
 

Like others, I've had to rebuild my XR's with Sportmaster shorties. In the very near future, I'm going to rebuild my 575's to +700hp. What drive would you go with? Arneson's, B-Max, or Imco?

Scx

areneson bravo conversion. You have no excuse not to. You will BLOW your bravos with that power.

Imco scx = loss of speed, more moving parts, still wears out gears about 4-500 hours, better then 50-80 in a bravo but not as good as the arneson!

B-max = xr lower gears (junk) upper is strong but ugly, are they even making drives??? taking orders but actually shipping? Are there any parts in stock for warranty? I have not called in months to know but something to check. John is a super guy though.

You have it easy compared to most because someone on OSO has already put arnesons on your boat with amazing results. I believe 11-14mph gain!

So....Proven design, all new parts from the transom back, sell your current parts from the transom back, if you can affford to do the motors then do the drives or you will hate your decison to build the motors. The broken drives will ruin your summer on the water.

70 on the water is better then 0mph at the dock!

Arneson Arneson Arneson!!!

what is the cost of the Arensons? compared to others?

My Scx/sc Combo Is Workin Great,and I Believe Everyone Else That Has Them Will Say The Same(i Have Not Herd Of Any Failures),i Did Not Loose Any Mph!!!.they Are Easy To Install,and Easy To Take Off If You Want To Sell The Boat!!! I Believe If Your Gona Bite The Arneson Bullet,u Better Like Your Boat And Plan On Owning It For A Long Time!!!

Some would say alot less in the long run.

And they look sooo badazz:coolcowboy:

My 382 made 630hp fully dressed on a dyno....but made 700 ft/lbs of torque. I got 3 years out of standard length XR's but boated mainly in fairly calm waters.

I talked heavily with Arneson. They claimed a good 10mph gain with the exact same engines.....both at WOT AND cruise. The cost is high but you'll be replacing not only the drives but transom assemblies, inner plates, trim pumps, even the hydraulic steering. These are all things you can sell to offset the costs. You'll be replacing props too, which you would be with a power upgrade anyway. I was worried about how far back these things would stick out but was told it's about 4 inches further than a boat with extension boxes (which I did not have).

FYI: I ran 32P bravos or 28P 15 5/8 labbed maximus. The boat was a little over propped for cruise speed. 3,500 was 58GPS, 5,300 was 82-83. (30P bravos would run 5,600 at 86). All speeds are listed in flat calm water.

I'm running twin 700hp thru Imco SC's and have blown both uppers, the lowers seem to hold up fine. i'll be switching over to SCX'a as soon as my pockets get $20K deeper. That seems to be the best choice SCX uppers and SC lowers with the simplest conversion. just need to change the Gimble helmet and bolt on. I like the Arnesons but don't want to do the re-rigging nd would need transmissions?

The Arneson kits include the transmissions.

Cost on those kits? Do the transmissions fit between the bravo gimble and the engines or do the engines need to be moved?

Rik can answer on costs but the engines come out, new transom assemblies have extension boxes that house the transmission, engine goes right back where it came from. I really wanted to do this conversion but couldn't swing the $$$. They actually market/sell the kit as a bravo conversion.

I think the bravo conversion arneson kit is going for low 20's a side

I think i can answer some of this for you as i was up there last week. The lower gears he puts in are all cryo treated and seem to hold up alot better than mercs. Yes, he is taking orders and shipping them out. Yes, he does have plenty of stocked items. He is also selling NEO oil and the heat reduction and lubricity of the oil combined with what he has done with the drive/gears has drastically increased longevity. Dean ruined a great idea and John, IMO is doing great to build it back. I have dealt with them both and there is no comparision as Johns workmanship and dedication are unrivaled.

Now, on the anreson thing. Yea, the rooster tail is just plain bad-a$$ and they seem to be an awesome drive.. :evilb:

Cost is a major factor, but longevity also needs to be considered. A drive I would also consider would be the Dry Sump NXT, but it's only rated at 700 hp.

My plan is to buy the Drives before I detonate my XR's again. That way, I should, hopefully, be able to get some good pricing on the XR's.

We've got quite a few of the 382 Formula's with the Arnesons and they all run beyond expectations, both in speed and handling.

Value is worth what you pay for things but I can guarantee the Arnesons will last for a long long time, and as we've seen well beyond the life of most of the motors out there so you will not have any worries.

Speed, handling and lifespan are all addressed in one package that we have in the #7M Kits.

The NXT is cool, but too expensive, much more involved install, you have to FILL in the lower part of your bravo hole and cut the upper part larger, drill new holes, some even say you have to move the engine up 1 inch and forward 1 inch. Just a pain in the a** IMO. The NXT was never intended to be a bravo conversion as a after thought. It was intended to be a bravo replacement when rigging a boat new that was originally engineered for a bravo.

Arneson is your best choice.

Just to throw another log on the fire.... what about a Konrad 540?


As for the cost of things, I can help out there as I was looking to swap from a Penta DPX to a new drive.....

SCX/SC combo - $28K


Arneson - $23K

Thats it!:bsflag: I'm raising my prices! :lolhit:

I agree the Arneson is the clear way to go, but once you add in props and some applications having to fill the transom step, it can become a little more expensive of an option. If the money is of no concern, I'd go with the Arnesons.

Regardless, doing some type of 'conversion' BEFORE the factory bravo goes south is the smart way to go... at least this way you can recoupe some your money by selling it while it still has some value.

99% of applications do not have any issues with a notch! Also you have to purchase propellers regardless of which out drive you use and we offer two different propeller hub choices, Bravo and Speedmaster.

If your upgrading power enough to where you're considering Arnesons.......your changing props anyway.

What is the pros and cons of each prop? IF you have the Arnerson surface drive.

Not so much specific to an Arneson but the propellers in general are very much different from one another.

Rake: The Bravo styles have much much more.

Diameter: The Speed masters have the edge by far

Bite: Speed masters

Cost: Bravo's

Thanks RIK,

So if someone is think of or doing the bravo conversion on a boat that hasn't been done how do you go about determining which style to go with?

Size and power.. Smaller boats are best for the "Bravo" style housing and the larger boats run best with the cleavers.

It appears most think Arnerson is the way to go. Does anyone have any negative points?

By that, do you mean running bravo style props on an arnie, eh?:party-smiley-004:
Never seen that before. How is that done? Sorry if this is a stupid question, just can't figure it out.

There really are no negatives to the arneson. There are some minor negatives to "surface drives with cleaver style props" but nothing specific to the arneson. ALL new, fast, powerboats run surface drives and there is a reason obviosly!

Excursion! how are the Arnesons coming along on your boat? have you had a chance to run them yet?

Yes, the benefits of one is not the same on both sizes, mostly due to the cost relationship as well as boat size and HP

Thanks, I've heard of maneuvering issues at docking speeds and the exposed props.

Does anyone know the location between the Arneson prop location vs the Bravo set up?

It appears the Arneson conversion for two drives would be approximately $ 53,000.00? This does not include props. What would a good set of props cost? I currently have boxes, XR's with Shorties and Latham steering. Anyone have any idea what my existing setup would be worth?

For my application, the SCX/SC combo also seems to be a viable option. I've read Imco is coming out with a new drive in the very near future. It does appear that because of my existing equipment and from a cost perspective, Imco my be the preferable application.

I know the Arneson drives are practically indestructible and I'll gain speed, but I need to keep everything in perspective.

Any insight or advise is appreciated.

I'm going the guess all the equipment you replace will have a sale value of about $12-15K (it's worth more, but that gets it sold fairly quickly)

Switching to Imco will make you more dependable, but no faster. What do you expect to spend to make your 575's push 700hp? Why? To go faster right?

Well, spending the money on ASD's will make you "bulletproof" (more so than Imco's) AND will make your boat faster while still running stock engines. Essentially you need to compare the cost of Imcos AND engine upgrades to the cost of ASD's alone since both would net you additional speed.....and in reality, 700hp with Imco's will still be slower than 575hp with ASD's.

I thought I heard the ASD props will stick out 4 inches further than your current set-up......can't verify that though.

Very good points, smart info here!! keep engines stock and gain speed and reliability!

Arneson "LISTS" about $24,000 ea. (could pay 22k-23k out the door aprox)
Includes Drive, stand off box, hydraulic steering, Trim, Transmission, transom assemblie, etc. EVERYTHING
Needs $5000 #6 prop ea.
Can sell to recover $5-7,000 ea side, boxes, transom ass, hydraulic steering, drives, tie bar, etc.
Now ALL parts on the back of your boat are NEW and TIGHT, much safer when running over 100mph!
Total price $40,000-48,000 (worst case paying list and giving your parts away)

SCX "Surface Drive" $13,800 (listed on OSO, if priced the same as the current SCX) $15,000 (SCX Listed on IMCO site)
Includes upper and lower drive
Needs $1500 IMCO forged Gimbal ring, Helmet, fluid resovoir, $5,000 in #6 s$tyle props, $500 shipping
Nothing left to sell just stuck with 10 year old worn out parts
Total price for a pair $41,100-43,500 including herings

All the new parts, the proven design, less moving parts, and more speed increase make the arneson the winner.

I was just getting so excited since my boat currently has no drives after breaking my SC's for the last time. Been saving for the Arneson but not there yet. Could afford the SCX but only because I could use my props. Untill I added this up the new SCX surface drive was exciting me but I am back to saving my spare change. I am still excited new products are coming out which is great for our powerboat industry.

So actually the only way you can save money is to get the STANDARD SCX.

Arneson wins again!

Put arneson drives on before engines you will be much happier boating every weekend then looking at it in the garage with broken drives like me.

I'm going to have to meet up with you this summer, I HAVE to see the first Baja with Arneson drives, I toyed with the idea years ago but after the problems I had with trying a extension box and trying a Imco shorty I would be scared to re-rig my boat with no others to compare with not knowing what the outcome would be and I could picture spending the rest of my life trying to get the set-up right, Smitty

LOL! Hopefully I am the first to have a Baja with arnesons! My boat is paid for and I truely love my boat, but if I could do it again I would have only put half down and financed the rest so I had money for arnesons, well I thought I had good drives (complete IMCO SC's) but obviously they did not hold. I will be able to save enough by next summer for sure, just sucks that I might be down this summer? Oh well I will figure it out!

I was scared at first but when you look at it ALL fast boats have surface drives. I rode in a 41 saber (wicked won). Aweosme boat. Its a similiar designed hull to mine, non stepped v bottom. #6's. Works great. There are not many single engine boats with surface drives though so that I agree would take more to dial in.

I am sure we will boat together some day though. You are friends with some of my other friends (Ryan and Jason) and for some reason they talk good about you!! J/K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxjsIl3F3x8

KJM5125 has no excuse to not install some arnesons! His EXACT boat has them, with fantastic results.

Excursion>> just make a bandaid repair to your bravo and get out this summer while you save for the Arnesons. just be easy on it for one year.

Smitty: would love to see you come to T.C. and boat with us!

Im a little confused over the knocking of the SCX drives verses the Arnesons? For the extra cost and rigging time, extra PITA with transmissions etc, has to be more weight involved verses a bolt on helmet and upper and GO! How much more speed do you think he's going to see on his Baja for the added expence just to look cool? I haven't heard of a broken SCX yet and with the SC lower no loss of speed.