Same happens over here..
I did 10 yrs ago Repos and chapter 11 overseeings here and it started again this fall.
Last Friday two trucks got sold for less then 50% of the market value..or the market is 50
% down currently.
Actually I´m Happy some rotten tomatoes will be off competing as it levels the field a bit.

Nice try but I´m the Father of two stunning
blondes named Julia Carol Shelby and Emilia Lisa Patricia.
Also Im not homofobic or politically challenged as some..

If you want a succesful night club ( and those do make loaqds of money ) for example hire Gay( ?) good looking and muscular Males.
Why, well the Girls all want to try to score or just be around them as they won´t harrass a woman even if they would be out by themselves alone in a powerboat.
Plus the male customers will follow the girl customers...usually.

But I won´t squel like a pig or bend over.

Not even the Banks will let them go for that low a price publicly, all the other rotten ones probably but not the Brand that is the most recognized.

Yes and no...
If you credit it personallly no tax witdraws but if you buffer it thru a company then maybe yes even in the states right?

Want to know how some racetoys have so much stickers on them and some don´t ?
Not necessarily sponsors but "sponsors"... If you know what I Imply you must be a racer...

A Jihad?


No way.. start to make products in the USA and I´m all thumbs up for them and willling to sell them overhere.
But try to sell Chinese Mexican or Canadian with a US Brand no thanks.
I had one Trans Am made in Canada and the Electrics reminded me of a French car...

Come to think of it..stuff I´ve been disappointed with since the last decade has all come from the Aftermarket in engine parts for American Iron. ( intakes cranks rods camshafts etc)
I won´t publish any names but the most well known brands are all outsourced.
There´s small shops I rely on in the midwest that still do it themselves.
The same shops also makes parts to raceteams that are sponsored by the big names in the business with the big names partsnumbers even but only for racing use and specific customers.
OT.
Regarding Jihads I think we have it coming... but I Still think it was the right thing to do.

http://www.finlandforthought.net/200...ce-deportation

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Omb.../1135221079512



And as of today :
http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2008/...is_446950.html

Note thet even after 16 yrs not granted citizenships despite having family and all here so no Mayflower2 getting docked here for real.

My rule of thumb is don't buy anything that I am unable to pay cash for. With that said, I don’t pay cash for everything. If you can make money elsewhere with the cash, then finance the boat. Today it may be a different story because it is hard to make money, but I still have liquidity. If I had that money in my boat, I am not getting it out any time soon. Cash is King, especially when it is in the bank not the boat!

Be careful with that statement............ I was getting killed 6 months ago saying you can buy early t/s TG's for 125K and the proverbial sh!t hit the fan. Yes they would have been 500 boats but now the 03-newer boats are the 525 boats and they are now 5-6 years old.

A few were quoted saying even straight bottom boats were worth well over 100K......... don't think anyone would take that position now.

The blue 07 in Chicago has been for sale for over 18 months and was 279K this time last year (a friend was trying to buy it, he ended up with another 07 for 250K (demo boat, 70 hours). They want 257K now, boat won't sell for over 225K sitting on the trailer in today's market. Me being the cheapskate couldn't pay over 200K for it as long as snow is on the ground!

Some other used guns have popped up on OSO for EXACTLY what they paid for them in 07 after putting a 100 hours on them. Don't see those selling either but maybe I am just a pessimist! :drink:

It must be wonderful to know everything

I think your post are totally off topic, you have no idea what American business owners go thru to make and run thier business in this country, we work long hours, put up with alot of B.S. and pay lots of Taxes. My Grandfather faught in the 2nd world war, he was a B-17 Pilot, he flew 56 missions over Germany from his base in Italy, he was not drafted!!!!!, he is the reason you can come on this site and spout you anti American rederic!!!, if it was not for America, your country would be part of Germany, or Russia? I know things are not great in this country right now, but if we had to defend our friends or ourselfs, we could do it hands down, without any help from any country in the world!!!!! As for boat builder's going out of Business, I am tired of hearing about it, or any American business going out, it does not help the market or our sport!!!, There are real people behind these companies, with dream's and familie's, not just internet talk. Please think before you post, it may hurt some people!!!!!!

Well said WMF!!! Now lets go boating. D@mnit it to cold here. Im going SOUTH!!

No it doesn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT, 38' Cigarette Top Guns with 525EFI's are going to be 2004 model or newer and last spring they (2004) sold for $225,000.00 to $250,000.00 on a Myco trailer, "YOU CAN'T BUY ONE FOR $125,000.00"

Set em straight Blume!!

so an 04 last spring sold for 250k

and there r demo 07s ASKING 250k

so now for same $$$$ u get 3 tears newer.... hmmmmm

and i never said an 04 was 125k... im talking 01,02, maybe 03

btw i know an 06 that sold for 240k allmost 20 months ago

the one with no paint and weak options?????????????

show me a new dealer demo for 250k??????????????????

If you got a 165K wholesale bid on one. Then that is what it's worth. Why should dealers be the only guys that get to pay what boats are actually worth. I'd love to see one sell for what it's worth one of these days. Maybe then one of us poor boys could afford one. :cool:

I guess when a dealer that you know bids 165k that's a real offer you can count on. :ernaehrung004:

Not ....Well I'll give you 165k but I have to ask my wife,bank,friend,mother,dog. :angry-smiley-038:

Is there a point to that?

A Lot of retail people....Not all..... are full of B.S.

When we take a car in on trade I know the only real money I can count on is wholesale money from another dealer.

Retail $ is an if come maybe.

My only point is that it is to bad no one will pass along the savings to a retail buyer.

They will...All you have to do is find the boat you want and offer the dealer a real money offer with a deposit.
I'm sure in this market any dealer will take a small profit
rather than sitting on his inventory.

Not the ones I have been dealing with. They are still waiting on the silver lining that is coming when the market magically turns around and boat buyers who want to pay retail will magically start falling out of the sky, and of course this is all going to happen in 2 - 3 months when spring comes.

Jeff....... What kind of boat do you want to buy & what do you want to spend?

38 TS Scarab or Donzi with A/C and Genset. I'd love a cigarette, but the cult will never let one go.

Price is not the issue. Looking for a good deal. I'd go outside my budget, if it was a killer deal. Something priced behing the left side of the book, where you guys buy them at.

My son Bobby (LSJr.) says he knows of a 38 ZR with low Hrs.

Call him 954-328-2022. Maybe he can hook you up

I found one that I am interested in. I will look him up if I decide I don't like this one.

I had been working a deal on a scarab that I really liked, but the dealer that owns it wouldn't get realistic on the price.

I had the credit union ready to do a loan. I'll find something eventually. I always do.

Good luck.....I hope you find what your looking for.

Despite this being the Xmaseve I have to reply.
I have never had any vacations until I turned 41 as an entrepuneur I did 8yrs workhours in 4 yrs.
Oh I think here we have many fine Hard working ( and succesful) individuals,
Myself, I know how to drive a Big Rig at 130Klbs without a rest 15 hrs straigth in the winter, pedal to the metal, taking deadly risks to myself and others, just to catch the ferry for Xmas yearning to see the family.
I´ve also looked sometime in my life off business opprotunities overthere and found out how the systems worked.
So don´t tempt me.

Both grandfathers got wounded in WW2, dads father limped the rest of his life (uptil 1991) and carried a Handgun daily because of the fear of Commies.
Mothers father had to get by the next 50 yrs with one lung as the other was torn off while he jumped on a US made grenade to save his crew and succeeded in that.
They both had personal issues after WW2, didn´t talk about them and just plugged on and succeeded somehow.
We defended our homeland as we were attacked an invaded on our homesoil.
I don´t blame the American citizen but the government, regarding their foreign policy which has a history of being less than mediocre regarding our point of view.
Your grandfather did his duty as good as he could just as mine did or anyone else who were less than collateral damage.
I salute all of them despite the side they served, they were soldiers and let´s honour them and their legacy.

Looking from my window over the river I can see as long as there´s a view condos instead of old wooden houses that got bombed away (civilians) and I don´t need to walk more than 600yrds to find holes in the granite groundings the size of my head of bombings Russians did on purpose on civilians at the centre of the City..not some factory targets here.

If The Finns wanted and Germans demanded us to do it we coulda shut down the only supply road to St:Petersburg ( then leningrad)with ease and starve the whole 5 million in progress of civilians, we didn´t do it nor bomb them despite being able to shred the city to the ground.
And Seeing the beautiful St:Petersburg at night all lit up this summer I´m glad we choose not to.

Allies did choose to bomb civilians and your father was just one in the progress just carrying his orders.
In fact it was the western allies who came up to that idea.
I say it wasn´t your grandfathers choice but There´s some to blame ( the high staff) and certainly they ain´t Finnish who only protected their homesoil and took the help from those who where ready to help and sell their war equipment, we did turn to British who promised but didn´t deliver and USA who sold some planes that were decomissioned but too late to help when it was needed so more blood had to be shed later.
*Like I said Roosevelt was all for helping us but the senate wasn´t .


Now we have a history of being ruthless warriors and even the catholichurch has a psalm made to ask gods protection from us way back.
In Maroc a town called Rabat was invaded by Finns one time I´m told of the locals.

So yes we´re at least as agressive as the Irish and should both natives be caged unless needed in general IMO.
But I´m proud of the rebellious heritage and no Nazi or German can come even close to us if you tick us off and they knew it back in the day and the US Military staff new it too.
Just go to Fort Bragg and ask about it and the buildings names.
End of story.

What comes to the ability to defend your own homesoil or friends (?) I don´t doubt it. I doubt the time to react and act right... I think by giving the Red Army all on a silver plate USA didn´t do nothing but let half of Europe be stomped on by Commies.
Now even Russians themselves greeted the Wehrmacht from liberating them from Soviet goverment terror, so guess the times were not that happy in Soviet ?
I think someone hasn´t told you that.
Regarding USA keeping the Europe or us free from German or Russian terror because of it being a superpower I disagree on.
The help didn´t come when it was needed and Germans didn´t try to press us because we were strategically too delicate .
We had cannons that could reach the Soviet Baltic fleet main harbours, the biggest fleet they posessed and could put them put there if needed.
I told not to get me started on the matter.

Sadly The Truth HURTS and it´s up to the workers to tell the managements if they don´t see the morale in it to consider supporting Domestic workers.
MY message is that I don´t buy anything packaged in (a) US (brand) and made in XXX ( = fill your favourite here) despite givcing the packagers getting jobs. It´s up **** creek.
I may even browse over the shortcomings unless they are not to the size of a Harley as long as it as much as possible giving ordinary people ( in USA) Jobs and making their day.
*I test drove a Harley 1200 Sportster prototype this fall and yes it was quite ok but to shell out any money over it no.
Regarding a V twin scoot I´d look for Aprilias or Ducatis for the same price plus the spare parts ain´t made in China for those two like they are for a Harley, Told by the dealer...

I maybe the only Finn to think this way too..
I buy American everytime it is truly American. Like VP-Race fuel despite it being over 5 dollars a gallon for me compared to the others at half the price.
Because I´ve used it before and found out it has something I FEEL I can trust on.

Sorry to be so bitter on Xmas but I´m getting short on Vodka...:drink:

Have a Merry Xmas and hopefully we´ll manage the years to come with pride and success despite these times.
And I hope at least Cigarette cruises by this recession with pride.
If the Banks would look themsleves in the mirror and be human this crisis would be allover by now IMO.

October 07 (at the Laud. boat show) the OSO Top Gun sold for 250K, no trailer delivered to FL. Was a demo with 70 hours and full warranty/never titled.

That was a plain white boat in a substantially better economy but it had been for sale for 285-299K for about 5-6 months (hinting it didn't sell for bigger money because it wasn't worth more than 250K).

Got snow ?
We don´t and you can still boat here. Mid 30´s thou..

Yeah, he wants $259k now with 235 hrs on the boat :rolleyes:

That is what I am talking about. Guy gets a decent deal on a boat and figures because it says Cigarette on the side of it that he is entitled to make money on it.

He should pass his good fortune along to the next guy and make someone else a good deal.

Well, reality is he'll lose $ when he sells it.

However, (and this is my opinion) to say he should pass his good fortune to the next guy....that's up in the air. If he bought that TG for $100k should he have to sell it to the next guy for $100k? The answer is no but a boat is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay and that is definatley true in today's market.

Also, a bidder is better than a looker. I got laughed at on an offer I made to someone this morning. He may have thought it was low, but it was a cash offer and I doubt he's had any other offers.

I hope this makes sense.

If he had the good fortune to buy it for 100, and considering 250K is all the money for that boat. Somewhere inthe middle would be fair. That way the buyer isn't buried in it and the seller makes a little cash.

I hate it when a seller gets cocky and tells me that if I am offering a certain amount, I must really want his boat and then he TELLS me that I will pay a certain number because that is what he wants for it. IMO that is just to cocky.

At that point they are lucky when I just don't walk away from the table all together.

There is no god...

"wanted" is the term........ he sprayed 20K in paint and thoroughly used the boat. Got excited with the prospect of using the boat for free while passing the used boat onto someone else to fix. Wife was pressuring for a Searay cruiser but that has subsided for now. For a few years in years past the concept was easy, buy and use it and in the meantime the manufacturer raises the MSRP 25% in a couple years and suddenly your used boat is worth what you paid for it since the price of a new one skyrocketed. The inverse relationship is happening now, the newer boats can be had cheaper than the older ones since they "overpaid" in the white hot used boat market.

He stroked a check for the boat and it sits on the lift at his free and clear ICW home so when the time comes to sell it the guy with the green money offer will get the boat and the title in the same afternoon.

Funny story on a used Cigarette......... My buddy got a low offer on his boat. Thinking the buyer was talking but not buying he told him sure you can have the boat for that amount but you have to be at my house in an hour with a certified check. Buyer choked with got to get financed, got a trade to sell, etc etc etc...... My buddy said never make and offer you can't complete.

Buyer called a week later to ask if the price was still good, my buddy laughed and said nope, you missed your chance.......

I thought it was funny the guy called a week later after being called on his original offer.

The thing is that if you want to sell something. You can't get cocky. You have to recognize when it is time to sell wether the price is right or not.

It is that way with everything. If you get stupid, you may never sell it. There will always be that nagging that you paid to much or sold to low, but once the deal is done, you don't have to worry about it keeping you up at night any more.

You guys can put all the bottom feeding slant you want to about everything!!!!!!!!!!! Let's try some easy math, 250k for said OSO 38' Cigarette (stripped down boat), paint 30k, Myco trailer 15k. So that looks like 295k to me. How good a deal was it or how cheap??????????????????