Rik, would that hold true when you include the difference in the cost of the props (ASD surfacing vs. Bravo non-surfacing)?

Michael

So what does everyone on this thread (especially those who DISlike the Arneson) Recommend for drives for the OP? List in order from best choice to worst choice, And why?

My List

Arneson....................Strength, reliability, Speed gain, proven (especially on a Cig), bang for the buck, Expensive but MUCH better props
X-Power....................Strength, reliability, Not proven as much but some, Very Expensive, Expensive but MUCH better props
SCX Upper & Lower....Strength, speed loss, shifting problems, Fair price
B-MAX.......................Upper strength, lower weak, Ugly, speed loss, Fair price
SCX Upper SC Lower...Upper strength, weak lower, sexy looks, Fair price
SCX-4........................Strength (should be similiar to SCX), NOT proven, expensive, expensive props

Keep Current drives stock, Have spare drive (if you want less downtime)....Least expensive, save for YOUR idea of a "perfect drive" or a new boat!


Personally not impressed with Konrad, All American Drive, Max Machine, Teague

#6, NXT, Indy, all require to much work, better off buying a different boat already rigged with them.

Offshore I'm not sure you or anyone can speak about the best choice for a bravo replacement unless you have tried them all on the same boat and same power. How may X power drives are even out there where you have the results that you have posted?
You guys seem to be stuck on speed lose for the Bmax, have you or any of your key board friends tried a Bmax with a 1.5 ratio?
If you have a personal experience with a current model on the market today lets hear it if you are spreading BS keep it to yourself please.

I think you are just wanting to pour more gas on the fire.

John, Waconda. I have spoke the TRUTH about your drive. I have also spoke very highly of your excellent customer service in MANY other threads.

I have seen the X-power in person (boyne thunder poker run) and it rocked!

If you want every person to only post a comment if they have personally owned EVERY drive on the market, then I doubt there would be many replies, none from YOU either.

Sorry but gear ratio choices go hand in hand with prop selection. Please explain how a 1.5 ratio is going to make my 100mph boat currently running a 1.36 ratio go faster????? And who makes a prop with the pitch I will need running the 1.5???

Update your lower with better gears then XR, maybe even make it look sleeker, and lower your price a couple grand below IMCO and the BMAX will be a winner.

If you read some of my other post I have been very "up beat" "positive" and excited to chat about boating just like we are all tied up together on a sandbar. Not trying to pour any gas. Actually trying to get back on topic for the OP.

So lets see those list of recommendations for the OP!

Offshore- I don't dislike the arneson. I can't dislike something I really know nothing about. My problem here, is that I don't like reading all this bs about how great it is, when in fact; nobody honestly knows how great it is for every application. God himself could come on here and tell me there's a 99% chance it will work great for me. Unfortunately, that has not happened, and likely won't. I'm not willing to spend that much money with the hope that it "might" work very well, with as strong a chance that it might not. With that said, I'm also not willing to ever spend another dime on another Imco drive, nor am I willing to invest the time or money on a surface drive until someone else with a comparable combination can show positive results with. This is not an arneson bash, I've said it before, and I'll say it again... I have a tremendous amount of respect for the man and his product. What I don't like, is being told that it's better... Better than everything else available, and that it will work for my application... No doubt about it... But with absolutely no factual basis whatsoever. This also isn't a money debate, or a post by someone pissed off that they couldn't afford this conversion. I think it's great that we live in a time that there are so many options available, I just think its only fair that all options be given a fair shake. If I had your model boat, and you had factual data showing the benefit of the arnesons on that hull- I'd have been all over it. Several years ago I inquired as to the suitability for me, and I got the same answers everyone else is still getting now. I searched high and low for someone that had a similar setup- but couldn't find one. I settled on a bravo replacement, because I knew it would work... Not because a few people said it would, but because I could see it for myself thousands of times over. Has it cost me more finding a good one than it would have to test the arneson? Yes. No doubt about it. I have now found myself in a position where my drive lives on, where I cannot find a prop that will hang. Why don't you tell me now how much better a ssm prop would be... Then you can explain to me afterwards why cleavers don't work on my hull, or any other smaller singles for that matter. It's all relative, let's just give everyone a chance without all the bashing.

so lets understand this you come on here and throw up what if scenarios and post a long semi frustrated attack and you call him wrong? you promote bmax but when someone pushes the arnesins you call them a cheerleader? you put a huge motor in your boat you think that reliability from a bravo or anything like it is owed to you? at least he takes time to answere your questions then you act beligerant insultiung and say in a recession someone else should gurantee your boating success? you have not even told us what boat you have but its success is someone elses responsibility? looks like when others stated that brand x cost this much and state arnesin cost too much and he lays the numbers out and the opposite is true the bravo style drive cheerleaders cry. i don’t see him pushing it down your throat as you stated he did not promise you it would be anything and that frustrated you. ever think he told you 260000 just to make you go away? guess he regrets that as you showed him.

Boatless- if you are just that, than you have no place to chime in. If you read my sig- it will tell you what my boat is. This thread isn't about my boat. I have never demanded any kind of reliability from any manufacturer- I'm the idiot that decided it would be fun to put more than double the recommended power to such an application. My frustration here, is that simple answers to important questions can sometimes not be had with regards to the arneson, or any other surface drive for that matter... Especially in my case. With the lack of information to compare to, how can you tell me that 1 is better than the other? And it's not just my particular case that I refer to. I have been a part of this forum for a long time, and read a lot of threads regarding this debate- the common denominator amongst them is this... Rik gets defensive and angry when people disagree with his opinion. At that point, his loyal group of followers chime in and try to stuff his technology down everyone's throat. Again, if you have nothing to compare to, how can you honestly say 1 is better than another? Do I like the B-Max? Absolutely. Will I offer my opinion in a thread or elsewhere? Absolutely. Do I think it's the best drive for every application? Absolutely not. Do I think it was the absolute best choice for mine? Again, no... But it seems to be the absolute best compromise... For MY application. My application isn't an everyday occurrence. There can't be too many others out there as stupid as I am. Now I will admit that I am long winded at times, but your illiteracy and inability to read what I have written, is also not my fault. The reason I didn't go into great detail about my combination is this... There are only a few people on this forum that have a combo similar to mine. Why should I bother the rest with details of something completely different than the norm. I reserve these details for those that I would expect may have some insight as to what may or may not be feasible. Rik is on that short list. I was not content with his lack of available data, and therefor did not purchase his product. I don't fault him for that, it's not his fault that there aren't more idiots in this populus whom have tried such a dangerous project. His lack of data combined with his willingness to tell me that it works better on everything is my problem. Again, how can you say for sure. I haven't tried his drive, so I can't tell you either. This thread started as a question about which bravo builder was the most reliable. At some point, arneson got brought up. The original question was what is the cheapest route for a stronger bravo- Teague, Imco, or Bmax. My opinion is this... I wouldn't take a Teague drive if it was wrapped in a stack of cash... Bob screwed me on a pair of props a few years ago, so my opinion of him is biased. I have not seen very much positive data on his drives. I will never buy an Imco drive again... I've broken too many in too short a time, with failures that weren't entirely power related. The scx is proving to be fairly strong, if you can get past the known issues with shifting problems and porosity in the castings. The porosity is mostly a lower problem from what I've seen. The Bmax is a DIRECT bolt on to a bravo transom assembly. It's heavy, but it's reasonably priced and has been PROVEN to be very strong. On top of that, the bravo shops customer service is impeccable. My personal experience says that xr's and Imco sc's go away quickly- in my application. I haven't tried the scx, so I can't offer my opinion on them. The Bmax is strong, is it best for you? I don't know... But it's working quite well for me.

Sorry for the again long winded posts. I'll go climb back in my hole now. Goodnight gentlemen.

the only person gettin angry and defensive is you. you have a lot of anger it seems and if rik answered your questions how does that make him the angry one? instead of being thankful for the information you seem to once again attach someone. hey charlie, are you winning?

So you seen a Xpower and now you know by looking at it that it will out last the rest of the drives on the market?
I don't care what Imco sells for I know what I have in cost and if you can by a New SCX complete with all the parts you need to put it on your Bravo Transom for less than a Bmax then go buy it. But maybe you should check around first and see how they are holding up.

You and a couple others on here are very good at switching up what folks say and mean. If you have 1.36 and can pull that much gear now I would not have you go to a 1.5 and why would someone with your experience even ask that question?

Boatless I told lvrepoman that what he was doing with his boat was a little over the top and that no drive would last behind that kind of power even the Bmax. He told me of how most of the drives would last less than 1 hour. So I have never had a Bmax put to 1800 hp and I also was wanting to see how it would hold up. He purchased a Bmax with no warranty and knowing it would give up at some point and yet it is still hanging in there. I do NOT recommend this for a Bmax or any drive but some folks just have to push things to the limit.
And for that we all get to see what happens on someone else's dime!