:food-smiley-007:

You said it, it's not a race so why are these guys running 150 mph to the first card stop? Don't get me wrong I love poker runs but with the speeds some of the boats are capable of it is getting out of a fun run category. Lets save the high speed pass for the shoot out.

Glad to hear all are ok

My God there is a lot of b*tching, whine bag, cry babies on this forum. They go to fast, it's not a race, what were they thinking, why this, I'd of done this or that.... Accidents happen every day, everyone besides the poor little girl get to go home to their familes(rip) :-(. It's something we all on here love doing & enjoy. If you think they go to fast don't go, if you don't like it stay home, take up knitting or painting or something. Relax & be happy we all can do this geeze....

Perspective is the ruin of civilization.

A very small percentage of the US population have ever heard of a poker run, let alone Desert Storm, or even Lake Havasu. To include the world's population causes poker runs, desert storm, and lake Havasu to be nearly non-existent.

Approximately 1,000 deaths in the US are attributed to falling in the bathtub each year. Construction continues to be the number one spot in accidental deaths, far outstripping war in the US and police officers killed in the line off duty. Bathtub deaths cleans up on police officer deaths every year.

Auto accidents have decreased in the past decade to roughly 33 thousand deaths a year in the US. Accidental poisoning is still one of the highest causes of accidental death.

Considering the number of idiots that frequent lake Havasu (my own personal perspective from having been there), those that frequent lake Havasu are generally the type that are looking for attention. The number of accidents and or accidental deaths or injury are extraordinarily low, though that is most probably due to one cop for nearly every square meter.

Motorcycles, on the road or dirt, is still one of the leading cause's of accidental death or serous injury with motor vehicles outside of automobiles.

While, skateboarding, skiing, and many other sports are considerably higher in injury and death than boating as a sport, or boating in general. Commercial fishing is still one of the leading causes of accidental deaths, following construction.

High school sports, are attributable to far more deaths and serious injuries per year than offshore racing and poker runs combined. Yet numerous poster's claim each accident in boating as the end to legal boating, while they will cheerfully send their children off to participate in a far more deadly high school sport.

It appear as though the majority of those calling foul, on events at poker runs, or racing events, to be those that do not possess the means to participate. Yet they give no thought to participating in activities they do have the means to participate in.

Like taking the bus to the grocery store for another bottle of booze or beer, for which cirrhosis of the liver causes far more deaths per year than, boating, sharks, bus accidents, and taking a bath, combined .

I wonder what the financial responsibility or insurance runs on one of these safe boats . that go so fast that they flip n fly through the air . these boaters were extreamly lucky they get another glimse of sunshine . I bet those premiums just went up . i hope my insurance carrier isn't theres. i pay a lot to insurance . i want my insurance to think like you do . i wonder why my house insurance is so cheap . seams like a lot more liability than go fast boats out there . huh mindboggling, just saying bro

So it's ok for someone to run 150 mph down a city street and crash because its not the top killer in the country.
All I'm saying there is a time and place to show all of us boat lovers how fast your rig is.

Insurance, one of the intangible facet's of the gem called life. I do not believe most common carriers write policies on go fast boats,certainly not the ones that are running the top speeds demonstrated, most people are probably safe from some kind of premium impact.

Carriers that do cover such boats and subsequent use scenarios, have run through a gross or two of pencils working the actuary tables, either they do not cover certain scenarios at all, or those requiring or desiring insurance, pay to support coverage at that risk level.

The average boater most probably has nothing to fear as they are not part of that risk group. Just like a 1970 SS Camero is less expensive to insure than a 1970 Z28. The group owning Z28's have a higher loss rate than the SS group.

People with the fastest boats at that risk level are generally more worried, or should be more worried about liability, rather than replacement of the boat. If you are worried about losing the cost of the boat, you should not be playing at that level at all. If you are at the level of not worrying about the loss of the boat, you have a lot more to worry about losing, than the cost of the boat.

Easy money and cheap coverage has been one of the primary factors in negligence. The dollar a day warriors are the most dangerous.

I agree with you. There is a time and place for everything. Nothing is more devastating than loss of life or injury of an innocent individual due to someone who is showing off, stupid, or simply pushing the limits at the wrong place and time. 100% avoidable and not necessary at all.

In this particular circumstance, Desert Storm, everyone, including the spectators, where well informed of the intentions, and speeds that would be attained. Accidents, as much as it is desired to be avoided, will happen, no matter what activity is performed.

Driving a car is still the most dangerous activity everyone performs, yet the least perceived danger. Most people are desensitized to the danger because they have spent so much time driving with nothing bad happening, yet that perception does not change the actual danger. How many people do you see talking or texting on a phone while driving, not only do they not perceive the actual danger and care nothing about hurting others, but are insensitive to their own safety.

Unfortunately, there is always one group looking to infringe upon another groups activities, using the claim of safety, despite the claiming group pursuing activities of equal or greater risk.

Actual Danger and Perception of Danger are two entirely different organism's. People should not be so quick to point the finger at someone doing nothing more than pursuing freedom of choice, as long as they are not harming anyone else who has not voluntarily hitched a ride.

Why would there be a need for rescue teams??? It's a poker run rally not a race. or is it...... It is great everyone survived this one.

I love speed and boats, but these events are getting somewhat out of control. Especially when its so easy to plop into a turn key 150 MPH pleasure boat in recent years. A few years ago to go that fast you needed big roots blowers, carbs, crash boxes, race fuel etc. You needed to really know what you were doing just to start and park a boat like that. Now with the new hulls and turn key packages like the merc 1350 (which is a awesome motor) these boats are easy enough to start buy and drive anyone can have one. I think people are loosing respect for the speed that comes with them. Its all about the big number.

Hustler you can go buy a 200mph street bike for $10k & your supposed to keep it between two 12ft or so lines. I'm not so sure everyone can just plop into a $300k+ boat either, it's a select few that have that luxury! Don't attend if you have issues w/ the speed boats are running now a days......

Historically why do poker run accidents occur en-route (or race) to the first card stop ?

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have a question. Why are there spectators at a poker run? If it isn't a race and speed makes no difference at all, why wouldn't anyone with a boat participate? I have done motorcycle poker runs and everyone participates. The only watchers are those without a bike. It's always more fun to participate than it is to watch. I know I'll catch heat for this, but I have never been much of a spectator.

Rich are getting richer and poor are geting poorer. Rich can afford to pay High insurance but the average guy can't/ If they did not have insurance ( like race boats do not) they "might" be a little more carefull and try not to go so close to the ragged edge and keep the dangers in mind. "Most" boat racers keep the dangers in mind. Insurance helps situations but should not be thought of as an accident solution.I was not there and did not talk to the people that crashed , got hurt or flipped or even died last weekend, but i have a solution.

every boater has to pass a writtin test to be shown at the boat launch. (Drivers and passengers ) The test is 5 bucks , kids under 12 free. One time test is good for life ( this would pay for the launch ramp jokey to check permits. With more people coming into boating it would be a constan buisness ( how else can you keep the people with no knowledge AND OTHERS safe on the lake). This would be revenue FOR the lake owners or comunities. NOT GOV REGULATED.

Poker runners Drivers and people w a hundred mph boat. should need a better permit as well as a interview with someone who has authority on the waters. Not some water patrol moron either.

Just my 2 cents

No thanks!

So your saying someone doesnt care about flipping over going 160+ because he has insurance? Get real!:angry-smiley-038::lolhit: Makes no sense. It was an ACCIDENT. Let it go . Glad everyones OK, thats all that really matters. Thats the risk of going 160 plus. They're taking the risk not you.

I did not say that they don't care, You said that. Everybody cares. Just not everybody knows how to be careful

Add a lil adrenaline in the mix too...

We've all had our oh **** moments. Some worse than others. I have had my share both as a passenger and captain. **** happens and when it does it happens fast. All part of the game no matter how cautious you are...

you are correct sir. Adreneline is a culpret of many things.. I wanted to add the whole thing to the discution because the title say's "crash at DS"

Not just about the high speed crash. There were others. I heard a father ran over his daugter because she fell off the bow of the boat. I heard she was killed. I am so sorry for the lost to there family.,. But being on the front of a moving boat is something that you just don't do . Right . Some people do not know these things

I personally can't see how you can operate a boat at 160mph on a confined body of water without a resrticted course and be in control of your vessel. It is impossible to avoid a pleasure boater, fisherman, or inner tuber and still safely correct your course without risking yourself and your passengers. Its like rearending someone in a car, you are always at fault for not having your vehicle under control.

Injury or not I'm sure the lawyers will be out.

The problem with that thinking is that eventually everyone ends up paying for the risks these people are taking when accidents like this happen. How much longer do you think poker runs would continue if something like this happened at every event? Granted, I know that things like this do not happen at every event, but it does seem like we are seeing more and more accidents like this during poker runs. At some point we are going to reach a threshold where it won't make sense to put on a poker run (of DS caliber) any longer because the risk(s) is (are) too great. At some point the insurance companies are going to catch on and not offer coverage during events like this (in personal/individual policies and the policies used to cover events like this). At some point the authorities are going to step in claiming they need to protect the public from the big bad performance boaters “racing” during events like this. What is the answer to solve all these problems…? I don’t know. I know putting a speed limit on events like this would cut down, but is that what we have come to as a boating community…? I hope not.

Also the DCB driver evidently did not know his boat would climb a rooster tail right? I don't know and didn't know this about cats.. Anyway , thanks for all your inputs. I will now step down from my soap box

Agreed! I know it sounds dumb but we have been a patrol boat at the St Clair races for the last five years or so. Trying to abide by the rules and keep people safely in check. It amazes me how many people don't want to listen. Some are down right beligerant (prob buzzed up) and want to argue or fight.

AMEN.
Leaving the racing to the guys on the course. Wanna race? Join em!
Everytime I log on oso I lose more and more interest in poker runs.

Poker Runs are doomed from all angles....

1. Public won't get it that it isn't a race, someone will just point out the deaths, accidents, reported top speeds
2. Environmentalists will scream about the carbon output (fuel burn) and the damage it could do to the creatures that lurk below the surface
3. Insurance companies are going to be scarce or simply not affordable
4. Poker Run Events will price themselves out of the business with extra fees, higher prices while giving less of an experience to the participant
5. Sponsors will pull back support due to potential liability

This in turn will doom the dealers/manufacturers. Why buy a performance boat if there is nowhere to run it? I can remember big poker runs in the past that would have 5-10 brand new boats in attendance every year (usually with matching tow rigs).

Not sure how this can be fixed......while still maintaining the fun aspect.

There is so much dumb **** I see every season. 15 people on a 20' bowrider with girls dancing and hanging off the bow while plowing through a no wake zone with boats all around, good example...

I know I will get flogged for this but I don't see a reason to not have a licencing program for boats. Just the ****ing basics like a motorcycle endorsement. And as you graduate to a more capable machine be certified to handle it. Kinda like flight ratings. Just cause I can fly a Mooney does not mean I can hop in a Lear and fly it...

Perfect example... A thread just popped up asking how to drive a 32 Spectre. Not ragging on the OP but it is as simple as going out with someone experienced in that model and gaining experience before you fill the boat and go out for the day running 100+.

It says something when are were more 150mph+ boats running together at the DS poker run, than were at the SBI race in Biloxi.

Not sure what you are trying to say but, Biloxi was not an OPA event. Also the OPA doesn't even have a 150mph class. It is restricted to 135mph for safety.

Thanks. I corrected it to SBI. What I meant is you have more boats running faster at a poker run, than we see in an actual sanctioned closed course race. Something backward there.

+1.

Yes, driving a car is dangerous but look at the hours spent driving cars and accident frequency.
Compare that with the hours that the owners of the poker run boats involved in accidents have operating their boats and the results are significantly different. Although I cannot prove it I bet there are owners that operate there boat in a number of poker runs each year and possibly a few test runs and that's it. Maybe a total of 12-15 hours a year operating the boat, maybe less.
ed

Look, your logical mathematics have no place on an internet forum, mister!

:party-smiley-004:

I am glad to hear that people are OK,
I am not going to side with anything or anyone,
I just want to post a math lesson :)
For those questioning why not slowing down or stopping in the 10-15 seconds of the said incident,

@ 100mph ANY vehicle will travel over 1/4mile in 10 seconds---.277 actually
@ 100mph the distance is .41 miles in 15 seconds
@ 140mph the distance in 10 seconds is .388 miles!!!!
@ 140 in 15 seconds you will travel over a half mile! .583 actually.

now factor in anyone reaction time! 10 seconds? maybe for the best 5 seconds!
by the look of these videos none show more then a half mile of area.

Just get a perspective of TIME!! When your driving home and do a reaction to ANYTHING.

Sorry, got into an actuary statistics frame of mind.

Hope you came to your senses. Nobody needs factual crap on the internet.:lolhit:

LMAO!!!

Oh, I forgot, Truth does not have a place on the internet,,,,just listen to the news :daz:

http://raylarengineering.com/news.html

Looks like the boat hits the water at about 28 seconds into the vid. By the time the helo circles back at 1:30 (That's 62 seconds for anyone not into math) there are already 8 or 9 boats stopped there and 4 or 5 more on the way.

the video has an edit in it at 38 seconds so we really have no way of knowing how fast all those boats got there.....we do know however that the blue boat was well aware of what was going on and immediately went to help because they are already slowed down and turning around before the edit

and what goes on from 2:25 on (after another edit) certainly does not look too smart or safe especially on the part of the white/blue cat and the red cat especially considering there is a boat coming across in front of them that they basically seem to ignore

Another angle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYvL6uEMl6E

I see the flip at about 22 seconds in. and JT (blue boat) is already turning around at 30 seconds in. Can't ask for a quicker response than that.