Where'd the the Gawd dam cruiser go that causes all these cat flips? It get edited outta the video?
Prob same one that took Myway out, me thinks he did the loop got off course and ended up in havasu. :poopoo:

fixx
 

looks to me like the guy in the far right that put the sticks down the last 30 seconds and was hauling the mail out in front of everyone over steered and cut in front of the other 3 boats and that when the dcb caught his prop wash..the last 5 seconds it looks like where he made his move and cut in front of the dcb..

Couple things:

Electronics go crazy when they get wet. I saw a #6 boat sink at the dock, when raised, tabs, drives were all over the place. As soon as the power was turned back on, trim motors were running.

99% of OSO has never been as fast as this guy was going nor been in a pinch when the pack starts to turn. He obviously wasn't willing to turn that hard at that speed and paid the price. I can only imagine how fast this happened. See the need turn... Consider speed... Too fast...ridding a rooster tail. All in a matter of seconds.

No matter how you put it, it's out of control.

Random late night thought... If someone is driving ANYTHING faster than his skills, faster than the conditions and faster than the equipment can handle, it's called reckless driving. Shouldn;t it really be called "wreckmore" driving??

+1

Seems like a very probable reason for the DCB shifting to the right, IMO. Open water? Really? Far from being a closed course. The results speak for themselves.

Do you only ride that dirt bike hard on a closed course?

When it start to rise bow too much its packed all time more air.
Also when bow rise props start push also boat upwards.
Its like a snowball efect..

Wow---:eekdrop:Glad all on board are O.K.


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zyMO30Clts[/YOUTUBE]

Looks like a combination of the course turning slightlyleft along with the oncoming traffic caused the guy that flipped to over react and rather than turn slightly to the left and stay in his lane decided that the thing to do was cross the other boats wake. Way too close and at way too high of a speed for that move....the thing to do at that point would have been to slow down slightly and stay in his lane....

Have witnessed this scenario regularly at events, but usually occurs at slower speeds (by drivers with much less experience) where all are able to regain control and continue on. It is assumed guys running these numbers have experience and judgement required to avoid getting into that situation of multiple boats' lines coming together.

Skater40 did an excellent job of holding his line and actually dropping out of the frame as things unfolded. I am sure he watched the first DCB take off and begin drifting left and knew there was not enough room left for the rest of the boats over there.
I commend skater40 for not 'going with' that first DCB just to stay with him. He knew the time and place was not right. We all know he has the hp to be there, and by giving other boats plenty of room he prevented this from becoming a multiple boat incident.

A few phrase keep getting thrown around here. Things like lane, course, pack, spectators. All of that tells me one thing. This was a race. Pure and simple.

Oh, and whoever said this is open water with plenty of room. What are you smoking? You have obviously never raced. This was a tightly packed group on a very much enclosed race course. This is about as dangerous as it gets. I tell you that from experience.

For those that have raced in Key West, please tell me that this looks any different than the extremely narrow chute at the start.

Great question.

I ride within the limits of my environment. That pic was taken during a closed-course race, so yes, I was letting it all hang out.
When I'm riding in a non-race environment, I tone it down to avoid unnecessary risk for myself and especially for others.

+100

I'll answer that question for you. I was personally told by a buddy that was in the poker run that at the driver's meeting all poker run participants were to stay to the right of the lake centerline. In that case, it looks like a lot of drivers broke the rules before the accident even happened. Had they been following the rules, there would never of been the need to worry about avoiding on-coming boat traffic. It's been said on RDP that staying to the right of centerline is a normal rule at Havasu for boat traffic going down the lake also.

Oh and for all the people saying experience was a factor, didn't John Tomlinson run this exact same boat that flipped through a group of spectators at speed a few years ago on this same poker run?

We went by shortly after it happened and no helicopters tried to help due to not being set up for rescue just pictures and there was rescue boats there and I was told later that they were there fast was also told that they were ok just banged up. Someone said they got pinched in the turn and had to cross the wake and got air under them and that is what it looks like in the video.All of this came from just talk at the card turn in so we know how accurate that can be. That section was rough and it seemed like we were not spread out like other years and we were all running together and it was a washing machine out there just nasty water, I don't think we were bunched up for any other reason than we just stayed together to the first card stop. I have no idea what the skill level was and have no opinion due to that but we just don't need any more of these accidents at poker runs. This year we did not run as hard and gave way when other boats came thru and had just as much fun as any other year but I will admit that my first poker runs were looked at as a chance to race boats without being a racer and that is not the right way to look at them,we are not racers and we are not in raceboats.

Why don't you guys just nail it off the line. Looks like you are all sitting around waiting to see who has the balls to hold it wide open. You should do a Lemans start. This kind of rolling start makes it too bunched up. A Lemans start would let the pack thin out by the time you all get to speed. The the first boat or 2 could dictate the path if travel..

Better yet, have them swim out to the boats at the start.

The reality is we all know why this happened in black and white, Everyone can keep adding color to it, he got pinched, he cut across a wake. the gravitational pull of a mars jupitor saturn alignment overcame the frictional coefficiant of the hydrodynamic environment.... But the simple fact is we (myself included) are type A people. We take no prisoners. As long as ego emotion and horsepower overcome commonsense, selfcontrol and skill there will be another poker run wipeout and corresponding 40 page speculation thread and another and another.

I agree this will happen again. I think these events are a ton of fun but these accidents are part of what can happen. Not much to prevent them other then not having the events or taking the boats speed and enforcing a 70% speed limit. Puts a 60mph or 160mph boat in a safer envelope.

-Fast Boats
-Type A people
-Congested boating

:lolhit:

+1

No speed has been mentioned and that is ok by me. They were hauling but as first hand account in #216 indicates, the closeness in which they are bunched and the fact the photo choppers are still hanging around at low altitude suggest, they were not pushing 100%.

At 2:39 in the DCB-desert-storm-2013 video (crash at the end sequence) You can hear the motors change as the silver cat to the right (underneath the chopper) pushes the sticks and pulls out in front. Following that, it appears it drifts to the left of what one might say was "holding its line"
At the same time the silver DCB 35 and black cat to the left are moving right to avoid upstream traffic AND spectator boats sticking out.

From my vantage point of the two videos out, having attended DS in the past and other poker runs; my keyboard analysis of contributing factors that SUMMED into an accident -

1) Silver cat accelerating and cutting the corner apex slightly
2) DCB35 while recognizing the spectator and oncoming hazards, did not slow sufficiently to compensate for the turbid water and air passing so close behind the silver cat and the drifting line created by changing course due to the hazards.
3) Poor viewing position anchoring choice by several spectator boats. They were anchored too far from shore, at the apex of a river bend
4) boat traveling upstream near center channel, assumingly to avoid passing too close to the poorly anchored spectator boats. While this boat was running fast enough and became aware of the approaching flight to duck tighter to shore, the approaching flight would not have been able to read his mind.

I really enjoyed DS 2009 when I was there but did think there could have been more volunteer safety boats both for the poker run and speed runs.
There is no warning I know of alerting boaters before the flights come roaring by. My suggestion would be to have a few patrol boats head down the course in the hour before the start to encourage people to move in sufficient time they can reset safely and not feel burdened they only have minutes to move and might miss the viewing. Have them conspicuously marked as safety boats which will also elevate the attention of general boaters. Finally with 10-15 minutes left, have several boats stationed along the route pop smoke, turn on temporary flashing lights, etc and drive 3-5 miles. This final signaling could be molded as "ceremony" but should also act as a warning of the high speed boats soon approaching for those with their head in the desert sand. Throw some free gas to the patrol boats if there is trouble getting volunteers.

2009 was before the current Shootout location change but No Wake was not enforced in a large enough buffer or though out the length of the course which created rough water for both speed and spectator participants. There were a few patrol boats with signage but it looked more like an afterthought and finger wag than anything to be taken seriously. I also felt like there was an overall "west coast, I'm here to do my thing, fu vibe" by many as they passed by.
LOTO's Shootout is very obvious with many bannered patrol boats backed by Water Patrol that you are crossing into a No Wake zone and you better not push it.

I enjoyed the event. Lots of fun and fast boats which CAN continue but a little more active course management could increase safety of both spectators and participants.

I agree with Glass Dave, trying to turn left, crossing wake at angle, left sponson comes up, inward prop rotation equals bad situation. I believe the prop rotation had a factor in the rollover. As far as all cats turning in I don't and never will. There are many boats turnig props out. Ck Pure Platinum. Dave is spot on.
Glad no one seriously hurt. On another note I think each boat in a poker run should be given smoke flares that they can use to alert on coming boats in case of an accident like a caution flag in racing.

I couldnt believe what i was seeing when the M41 jumped the start before pilot rock instead of what was discussed in the drivers meeting.Bob Teaque made it very clear that everybody was to hold there line with no jockeying for position and that once ALL boats made the left turn at pilot rock and were lined up with open water -then they could go.
After the M41 left,the M35 and the 32 DCB to my left took off.My first thoughts when i saw the M35 leave was that his nose was to high,then he cut over right thru the M41 wake which didnt end so well.The 32 DCB was running next to him and when the M35 lost it- the 32 cut right in front of me hosing me down bad.I let off the throttles and turned right as i couldnt see a thing.The hose down shut my port motor down which by that time i came to a complete stop and restarted it.By that time i saw the 2 from the M35 floating and they appeared to be okay as other boats reached out to them.I then got up on plane and as i accelerated i heard a backfire from the port motor.I was unable to go over 140 to the first card stop and on the way back up the lake the MSD finally gave out.My bilge had 4 inches of water from front to back from the hosing down and the MSD didnt last long after that.
Sad day that shouldnt have happened.We will see what action the promotor takes as this kind of behavior has gone on way to long.They need to make a example out of the people involved and every one is watching and waiting.

What speeds was the group running prior to those boat taking off from the pack ? Sorry to hear a bunch of ass clowns messed up the event.
ed

You are absolutely 100% incorrect regarding your statement about "no helicopters tried to help due to not being set up for rescue". Both R44's were equipped with divers and responded immediately. The blue R44 was first on scene within 45-60 seconds of the boat going over. The situation was accessed and the decision to not deploy any divers was made based on the rescue that had taken place below. I know this as fact, as I was in the second R44 and was sitting right next to the diver.

Thanks for shedding light on the situation.....Glad no one was hurt...

Yeah.....they are taking the risk right up until the AH driving over his head broadsides an innocent bystander.........:whistle:

skater40 I would had been pissed if they dossed my boat that bad.but at our lake several years ago, we were anchored out watching when a Daytona with twin turbines went within 20 feet of our boat trying to spray us I guess, we watched him turn towards us didn't know to jump in the water and swim to the bottom or what, sadly a few years later he and his family lost there life in a terrible crash at the same lake. not saying anything but during takeoff, when the flag drops so does most everybodys attention, they tend to keep looking ahead even when theyre drifting over in frt of other drivers who are coming up hard from the rear , not even knowing they cut people off or sprayed the heck out of them.

YES I agree that the silver DCB 41 on the right took off and cut off the boats on the left, at those speeds everything happened so quick, and with a boat coming the other direction, the 35 dcb that crashed was ACTUALLY on a GOOD line, especially considering there were other boats to his PORT side that needed room to pass the boat coming the other direction!

THE 41 DCB (boat on the right) had PLENTY of room to take that left hand corner WIDE. There was no reason for the Silver 41 dcb to change coarse like that.

I agree with this perspective of the crash. I think it is scary that there are so many different ones than mine. Not that mine is necssarily right.

I think everyone should learn from bad things that happen. That is the way we prevent things from happening in the future. The message I get is that I can't depend on other captains to necessarily pilot their boats according to what "I THINK" is the right line because the "RIGHT LINE" is very subjective and can go bad with our competitive nature. As Gary pointed out, this would not have happened if everyone would have listened to Bob's instructions.

No one got hurt, thank God for this. Let's learn from what happened.

Can anyone confirm the driver and passenger?
I heard the owner-Bo was driving
and yesterday that someone was needing shoulder and knee surgery?

From people involved we know two things happened that violated the poker run rules.

1. The boat should have kept right of the center line going into the curve.
2. A number of boats jumped the start prior to the curve.

What are you talking about? That was a great RACING move.

:party-smiley-004:

I was viewing the aerial video from the helicopter. Looks like everyone held their line except the person driving the larger DCB on the outside right. Looks like he pretty much cut every body off. The rest of the boats are going in a straight line heading towards the center of the lake, and the larger DCB punches it and turns left right in front of everyone.

Just curious, who was driving the larger DCB?

While it did violate the instructions given at the drivers' meeting, doesn't the boat to starboard have the right of way? I thought the 35 DCB should have just chopped the throttles and given up the right of way, as should the boats behind him. Nevertheless, some serious douchebaggery going on by the Dave's Custom Buoy drivers.

True, when two vessels come from different directions, but all of these boats were going in the same direction, so I don't think it apply's when someone just decides to cut over in front of multiple vessels.. But I'm not a maritime expert so what the heck do I know:)

Nevermind......maybe it was one of these two guys.....you know, the one holding his finger up? :lolhit::lolhit: