24' Pantera vs. 24' SuperBoat
 

Hey guys on my poll about 24/25' boats Pantera got a lot more votes and responce than the SuperBoat. Has anyone out there driven or owned both boats, been to the factories. Make a comparison of the two boats, build quality, ride, speed ect.

I'm not trying to start anything here just curious, as to why Superboat didn't get as much of a responce. I think the hulls are similar? They both have a racing heritage. And along with Sutphen are probably the oldest compainies with the original owners.

Kirk

KN,
How about an update. The small 24 your talking about has had more builders than just the two you named. How about the P&D, or the Martini. To name a couple, and there are lot's more. That boat has been poped more than a back alley hooker.

Extremely good bottom for the rough for a short boat, "but" the beam is, was, and alway's will be too narrow. At 6'8" it begins to chine walk around 68-70 and has a very low freeboard.

There are many boats with better design and ergonomics to pick from in this day and age. However, I still like the classic look of the boat.:rolleyes:

Short boats work much better with a little more beam. Run some and see the difference. I can arrange a demo on a Thunder if you like ! Let me know.:cool:

Thanks Bosco I will take you upon that Demo ride when I get a chance. If you don't mind, let me ask you this, how does the 25' PowerPlay run? isn't the beem on that 8'6''? and the bottom 22 degrees, That seems wider than anything else in its class.

Kirk

Truthfully,
One of my personal all time favorites. I have put that boat through hell, and it will take anything you put it against. I have a picture on my wall of a moon shot I took in the early 90's. Almost hit the chopper !!
Her only disatvantage is only a sit down version is available. Some day's you may prefer to stand.;)

leave them all eating propwash get a 24 SKATER! good luck choosing. If it had to be a V get the thunder.

I used to own a 24'Superboat with a Gale Banks twin turbo big block. It was extremely fast for what it was, ran a 29p Mirage plus at 6300 rpm :eek: :eek: :D

The boat was a real scary ride at speed and chine walked vilolently:eek: Although, it did not have external steering.It took a real beating in the rough water and was solid as a rock.

Kurt.

I own a 24 Superboat. I will agree with some other comments to a point. The boat is very fast. It does chine walk at times. I would not say violently. You do have to really "drive" the boat. I have k-planes and external steering on mine. You don't hear much about them because they only make a few a year.

I think 500 HP is tops for that hull. That would put it easily over 80 mph. It depends what you are looking for and where you boat. Some people immediatley start talking about how their boat rides great in 4-6 footers, etc. Well, 90% of my boating is in 1-3 footers. If I was running in bigger water all the time I would get a bigger boat.

For most people money is a object when purchasing a boat. The Pantera and some of the others mentioned are very nice and probably finished better but are considerably more $$. I haven't rode in the others except for the Baja and Velocity so I can't compare the ride.

My .02, I like the boat and that's what matters to me. If you are in the MD/VA area I would gladly take you for a ride.

Dave M.

DAVE M - I have a friend that had an older...1990 PANTERA 24... he had over 600hp in the boat & it ran out of bottom over 80.... he's been in my 24 SUPERBOAT... which is a '96... and he said my boat felt a lot lighterthen his PANTERA, and sat higher in the water then his PANTERA.... as you know my boat has, Dynoed 500HP.... it runs on GPS 83 and change with me alone & half tank of gas..... the speedo will show 89-90.... it is a boat that your have to drive.... but its nothing compared to driving my old 17 Hydrostream @90+.... now that was a handful... The Chinwalking
starts in the mid 70's & you have to drive through it... I don't think the boat needs to be any faster.... Landing it can be tricky... you don't want to pull the nose down to fast at 75+.... But I don't think there was another boat on that list that with the same power could run with either the SUPERBOAT or PANTERA... PANTERA probably got more attentionbecause I believe it has a more impressive race record... the guy that builds them is a hell of a race boat driver & has been in a lot more races then SUPERBOATS.... 6 of 1.... half dozenof another.... I bought SUPERBOAT because I live in the Northeast... if I lived in the south(Fla)... probably would have bought PANTERA... they build a gorgeous boat!

my 2001 24 superboat with a 300X and hydrolic jackplate runs 74 on gps with a 4 blade trophy plus 24p. I haven't had alot of time to test other props but so far the trophy is the best all around. I should have purchased it in the 1st place but bought a donzi blackhawk 22. It cuts the chop well, and handles much better the the prev. one. Being from L.I. I've always admired their looks and appreciate the freeboard when it gets snotty out. I too love the panteras for their style and heritage. I believe that Superboat provides a good value.

I think its pretty sinple. Superboat is built lighter(i'm not saying weaker just lighter) and geared more twords top end. The Pantera is built like a Brick chit house and geared twords rough water. Both great boats.

GARY--if you need someone to test your props for you i'm avail. anytime--i missed a deal on a 24' super-kicking myself in the ass now--john

Their are a lot of Race Boats that people may not know were Superboats, the following
are some that I know of.

East Coats Marine 32 Cat Joey Impressia

RC Marine 30 Tempest 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 A-Class national Champions 1993, 1994 World Champions
US Offshore Hall of Fame

The Extractor 32 Cat 2000 SBI C-Class World Champion
1998 C-Class National Champion
1993 D-Class World Champion

Extinguisher 30 Tempest, 1997, 1998,
1999 A-ClassNational Champion
19989 Rookie of the Year

Mediamaster 30 Tempest 1996 A-Class World Champion

Jaws 32 Cat 1994, 1995, 1996 P-Class National Champion

DirtyCash 30 Tempest APBA 2001 P-Class World Champion

Team SUPERBOAT 30 Y2K 2000 Manufactures Cup Winner


Eddie Simmons
SuperboatUSA.com

I want to stick my 2cents in here , I have a 24 progression ld with a 300 merc that runs 78mph and it will out run any of these two boats . I never raced the Pantera, but I have spoken to all 3 boat builders about their boat and how they are constructed , the speed and price . The 24 superboat has a very narrow beam and has no pad to run on . Everyone that owns one says it does chine walk at the upper speeds and weighs in at 1900lbs fully rigged, and the boat runs 74 mph with a 300x . This boat has no core material in the sides or the deck and is not vacuum bagged. The boat has proved itself way back when. The price for the outboard model rigged with mercury gauges, all white gel coat and a full interior including the cabin interior, less motor, was $ 30,000.
Next we have the pantera, also a 24 ft boat, which has also proved itself in the past and has been around a long time . The builder says the boat would run in the mid 70s with the new 300x and it weighs in at around 2400lbs. The boat is built with 1708 and 1808 glass and is vacuum bagged and has a lifetime warranty. The sides of the hull and the deck are fully cored and glassed together which makes for a very strong boat. The boat is kind of heavy comming in at around 2400lbs, but the builder says it makes the boat run better in rough water. The boat is sold with a full canvas and comes in black gelcoat , other colors are available at a small cost . The boat's price is around $35,000 fully rigged, less the motor .
And last, but not least, we have my favorite, the 24 Progression. The boat is fully vacuum bagged and the deck and sides are fully cored and glassed together for a strong bond, and if thats not enough, they thrubolt the entire rub rail .They use ame 4000 resin, which is the best in the business AND THERE IS NO MARINE PLYWOOD IN THESE BOATS . They use BALTEK'S BALSA CORE in the sides and the deck, BALTEK'S DECOLITE FIBERGLASS FACED COMPOSITE PANELS in the floor and in the bulkheads and the rest of the interior seating . The Progression also has a cuddy cabin, along with the other 2 boats . The boat runs 87mph with the 300x on gps and weighs in at 1650 fully rigged, less motor . They offer 3 different color gelcoats or custom paint, and the boat has a full 10-year structural hull guarantee. The price on this hull is also around $35,000 fully rigged .
I'm sure there is alot I'm leaving out on all 3 boats, like the type of hardwear, the seating and cabin material that is being used, but I will list below all 3 builders websites so you can create your own knowledge of these builders.
Please , I dont want this to start any fighting, it's just my opinion

www.superboatonline.com
www.progressionboats.com
www.panteraboats.com

I have owned 2 Superboats, the most recent was a '98 step with a '98 Merc 300 and marine machine steering. I got 73 mph on my gps. I have also ridden in both a 24' progression and a 24' pantera. I know what the published prices are but I don't know what the actual prices are of each boat, because I have only bought one brand. But I must say, I believe that attention to simplicity and affordability favors the Superboat. Finish and detail definitely goes to Pantera and Progression(the finest finish I have ever seen). Performance is really subjective. The Progression is probably the fastest by a mile or 2. I think I would rather be in the Pantera in really rough stuff. From my experience, and I know everyone seems to claim this, I beat the hell out of the Superboat and it never let me down in 5' waves. The funny thing is that in the next year or 2 when I am ready to buy the next step up (about 30 feet), I am going to have a hell of a choice because all 3 manufacturers ahve their strengths. Each night when I climb into bed I choose a different boat to imagine myself driving and, presto, the next morning comes too quickly.

I can say as far as price, on the progression for $35,000 you get all the BEST hardware and that is the price . As for the heavier pantera you would rather run in the rough ,if we race let me know what you like for lunch, and I will order it for you before I leave the resturant so when you get there its ready . LOL

Pantera offers a LIFETIME warranty on the hull, even if it is raced!

Good info Wayne. It sounds like you did your homework.

" I have a 24 progression ld with a 300 merc that runs 78mph "

"The boat runs 87mph with the 300x on gps " Is this second quote of yours a typo? Does it run 78 or 87?

"The 24 superboat has a very narrow beam and has no pad to run on" The newer Superboats do have a pad.

Just trying to clarify some of the points in your post. I'm glad you enjoy your Progression. They are very nice boats.

Dave M.

DAVE M - I was also curious about the inconsistancies in WAYNE's comments.... I'd like to add that my 24' SUPERBOAT runs early 80's & I have no problem with chine walking.... Course you have to know how to drive a V Bottom boat....Thier not Cats & don't drive themselves.... but I'd be glad to show WAYNE how straight the 24" SUPERBOAT runs ... he can watch from behind;)

Hey Gary,

Somebody was telling me about some kind of rivalry going on up there in LI between Progression and Superboat. He could be fishing! I don't really care about things like that. Where I boat I don't usually see any other Superboats or Progressions and only an occasional Pantera.

Dave M.

Dave M,

You have a step but no notch. It's kinda tough to see, are you running an outboard?

As far as that being a pad on the 24 superboat , I might be wrong ,but I though a pad was supposed to be flat not a v . If you go back and read what I wrote ,I said MY boat runs 78mph with a 300 and the 24 with a 300X runs 87 MPH . Not a typo you just miss read it . If you go back and read what dave said about his boat, ( ". It does chine walk at times. I would not say violently. You do have to really "drive" the boat. " ) Dave there is no rivalry on my part like I said I was just adding my 2 cents thats all .. GHR I would love to see your boat , I bet its very nice, and if your ever in New York look me up . Like I said they are all good boats but some are built better than others , and remember you get what you pay for .
wayne

Wayne,

I guess at $35,000 if you get what you pay for then you are saying that the Progression is about twice as good as the Superboat, right? Did I let the cat out of the bag?

WAYNE - I still don't understand your post... slow learner I guess... you said you have a Progression 24 w/300 merc that runs 78 then later you said the Progression 24 runs 87 w/300x?.... anyway I hope you took my comment about watching from behind in jest as thats how it was intended.... I agree with you... thier all great boats.... really a matter of opinion... I'd like to add that I have never seen a 24' SUPERBOAT come apart.... ever... John will build then with side coring if you want.... he just sees no need....

DAVE M - I know of no "rivalry".... but i'm from upstate NY.... near Albany.... an like you never see any of the 3 brands on my lake .... one other guy has a 21 SUPERBOAT with a 300X... I know of a few PANTERA's on Lake George... and a couple Progression there also.... but up here its BAJA, Checkmate & Bayliner:eek:

rtaylor , you are correct that the progression is built twice as good as the superboat , I will not argue that point with you , but if you are refering to the price, like I said I spoke to all 3 builders and the superboat was about $5000.00 cheaper. And like I said , quality is more important than price within reason , expecialy if the price is that close , and you must see what each boat comes rigged with , the quality of the hardware and quality of the interior.
GHR , I CANT BE ANY CLEARER . MY BOAT !!! ,,,,,,, RUNS 78 MPH WITH A 300 .....
THE 24 WITH A 300 X RUNS 87 MPH .
HOPE THAT CLEARS THING UP ???

There is a difference between a 300 and a 300x.

Thanks for the info on Progression. I really don't think your comparing like boat here though. I think the Pantera is not built for the same purpose as the other two. Pantera has no step or pad and is built heavy for a reason. Pantera has never claimed to be the fasted smooth water boat.

All great boat. :cool:

WAYNE - I DON'T KNOW WHY YOUR YELLING AT ME - BUT IF THE X IS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE - THAT WON'T MAKE 9MPH ON THE SAME SET-UP..... IS THAT CLEAR?

BTW - A 24 PROGRESSION WILL NOT STAY WITH A 24 SUPERBOAT IN REAL WATER..... NO WAY!

grh dont take he's yelling personally for some reason progression
owner's seem to have a real hard on for superboat and ther owner's
my personal opnion is they are pissed off because they overpaid for there boats and they dont have the resale superboats do
just my$.02
jim h:D

Jim H - I hear ya.... green with envy;)

Well , now that degraded real quick didn't it !
The last comment was really uncalled for .

I don't have a "hard on " for Superboat owners , in fact I have two friends who own them . We get along just fine...

I'm also not pissed off that I "overpaid" for my boat . That may be your opinion but its certainly not mine .

These boats are both good ones and their owners get lots of enjoyment out of them regardless of what other people say or do . Each boat owner is proud of their purchase and worked hard to buy it .There has always been some sort of rivalry here on Long Island because both boats are built in close proximity to each other . I've seen Superboats smoke Progressions and Progressions smoke Superboats on different days and in different water conditions .

Lets not turn this into another bull@#*& thread about "mines better than yours ".

My .02

wes you are right .
i shouldnt have sterotyped(sp) all progression owners and iam not looking to start trouble:)

Wes - I really don't have a problem with anybodies choice of boat.... I JUST DON"T LIKE BEING YELLED AT OVER THE INTERNET....;)

PS... Thanks for not yelling Wes....

Ya, let's just stick to the facts. Everybody likes to brag about their brand of choice.

Cool !:D ;)

Jim H - no problem..
GRH - agreed..
Dave - you're right..

- - Wes

Wayne,

You may have spoken to all of the manufacturers, but unless you whip your wallet out you really don't know squat about how much things cost. The Superboat is priced well below the Progression, and that is definitely reflected in the finish and the rigging and so forth. As you said, you get what you pay for. But don't tell the board that the Progression is twice the boat that Superboat is because you are setting yourself up to trip and fall.

GHR I was not yelling at you or anyone else , but you asked me the same question 2 times and and I cant figure out how you dont understand my anwser . I see its hard for you to believe it but there is a 9 mph difference in the 2 boats but there is . As for the rest of you superboat owners , I have never been passed or even kept up with by a superboat with the same power . I am not knocking anyones boat , I said they were all good boat , just some better than others , and you do have to pay for that .
JIM H , Im not pissed off at anyone and im sure I paid more for my boat than if I bought a superboat but I wanted a better built boat . Show me a 21 superboat that does not have the huge crack in the tansom , show me one progression that does ! Like I said before im not to start a fight here ..

Wayne,

By msking remarks like that you are in fact looking for a fight. But you've barked up the wrong tree. But you should know that if you are telling the forum that Progression is twice the boat a Superboat is, then you are setting yourself up for a big fall so please stop. Second, you are not entirely informed about pricing either. Regardless of what manufacturers you have spoken to, we all know that when you whip out the old wallet the price seems to change. Superboat is a much more affordable boat than a Progression, and that shows in the finish and rigging and so forth. Unfortunately I don't have a boat right now, but why don't we attempt to arrange a little race, a Long Island builder race. We can include Kryptonite and Activator. I wouldn't make any predictions, but I would love to see some rivalry. After all, it's the pride behind our boats that creates this. How about it? I would llike to see you dust the rest of the field.

Wayne,

By the way, no Great South Bay crap either. Out in the ocean with the 24's.

Holy Crap!:eek: This is getting heated.

Make sure an get some pictures of the race for us all to see.

I can't speak to the 24s all I can tell you is the new 28 Pantera Jo built me is of excelent quality, fit and finish. He also did every custom thing I asked him to do.

If I needed or wanted a 24, I would go with the Pantera.

With all due respect...

I'd watch out for those Kryptonites !

We saw a couple of real jets out on the east end this year.

Its a good point , there are some GREAT boats being built right out here on L.I.