Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Perhaps Amsoils best automobile oil:

Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy Duty Oil
Long service life oil engineered for both diesel and gasoline engines including turbo charged vehicles. Provides superior wear protection and fuel efficiency compared to conventional oils. Premium synthetic oils and additives with 12 TBN chemistry resists oil breakdown from heat, blow-by chemicals, acids and oxygen. Improves cold temperature starting. Global performance specifications include: API CI-4+/SL/CF, EO-N + 03', DHD-1, ECF-1, ACEA A3/B3/E3/E5, VDS-3

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Amsoil Marine gear lube. I was told it is guaranteed to protect in drives with as much as 10% water contamination and that included rust and corrosion. Amsoil usually lives up to it's warranty with repair dollars if need be I have been told.

Excellent Gear and Bearing Protection even when contaminated with 10% water
Reduced Friction and Wear
Rust and Corrosion Protection
Long Seal Life
Superior Foam Prevention

Their site now posts data with and without water contamination. The data is compelling...so long as you catch the problem before exceeding 10%.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

http://www.speed-sports.com/Go-Peds/...x%20Calculator

2 cycle mix ratio calculator.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I was asked for the link to Volvo Penta Synthetic Marine Oil.

http://www.volvo.com/volvopenta/glob..._oil/table.htm

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I was asked what oil has as much or more ZDDP than Mobil-1 V-Twin.

I have not found one yet.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

This place offers some great prices on Redline..Redline claims to be superior to PAO's...that's always been up to debate and it just keeps going...

$7.00/qt for many...great price for gearlube as well.

http://www.myoilshop.com/



Here are the 3 best reason to consider an ester based oil:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Did you get this from the "Basic Fundamentals of Lubrication" Your posts seem to go along the line with that book. :rolleyes:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Gosh :rolleyes:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I quoted what you wrote. I am asking if you got that out of that book. A few of your posts look like the came out of that book verbatim

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Summaries...it's a 500 page book...

...I received some e-mails..all positive...feel free to add to this Craig.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Got a question as to what is unique about some of the popular synthetic oils?

-Just compare some virgin oil samples and you can see for yourself!

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Would Mbl1 VT 20/50 be appropriate for a stock Merc 6.2..Running 40 wt Pennzoil since change.60 hrs on engine.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I think you should just ask.."can I switch to a synthetic oil"...answer is yes.

Then decide on the one best for you with the information here.


I am trying not to make recommendations anymore...just provide the factual info. My positions have not changed just taking a bit more of a back seat...

This would be a good question for Vandy..aka Craig as he is our Mobil expert and can get info for us that is not available elsewhere. I would be interested in knowing his feelings and experience with V-twin.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydros recommendation is fine for the 20w50. He can recommend any oil that he would like. For years thousands of people have used the 15w50 and have had no problems in a marine application. The new EP is basically a marketing gimmic if you want the absolute truth. The oil has been reformulated, but I still have 25,000 mile warranty cards in my office from the original Mobil 1 days. They are guaranteeing the new EP for 15K. Kinda weird?? The first time I have ever heard about people using 20w50 in a marine application was on this forum. ExxonMobil has a full on-slate of Marine lubricants that they stand by but the only problem they are for crosshead diesels and trunk piston. I do know though that Mercury will not void warranty for switching over, or at least that's what they told me in person a few weeks ago. Most Sterling engines come out of the shop with Mobil 1 and Neil from Cig swearers by it. We have used it for over 15 years on our boats and we have done religious oil sampling thru Mobil and independently and the oil has stood up time and time again. We have even run engines with conventional in one and the syn in another. You will not be disappointed. Any synthetic will work. If you like Klotz, or Amsoil, or Royal Purple. A lot of it is personal preference and what gives you a fuzzy feeling. If you are not running a dry sump motor or blown engine you will be fine. Let the engine get five hours on it's inital and then you can move to synthetics. If you look at Mobil's website they say nothing about Marine Lubricants. It's all PVL and Aviation. Millions have used it, it's worked 99% of the time and the choice is up to you. Short answer w/o all the numbers, synthetics are better than conventional, they have no impurities.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Cig and Sterling using 15W-50 or 20W-50?

I know it's Mobil-1 for sure at Sterling...they like the way it mixes with gas and protects I was told in the event gas finds it's way in...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

15w50. And yes gas does get in with the 1050's. We had bad fuel dilution. With those motors, you had to change the oil every 10 hrs. No matter what syn. you used. Every analysis came back with heavy fuel. Even if the motors were leaned out.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

True of many blower engines...some oils don't mix with gas ...M-1 is a good choice for a blower engine.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Stupid question, but are these engines with bad fuel dilution supercharged, and are they using excess fuel as a cooling/detonation control?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro-why do you feel 50-60 wt oil is recommended for race applications? I could Cut/paste some oil company statements regarding this but I am looking for a non biased opinion. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

You need to call Mike at Sterling on that. We just had viscosity come back out of whack from ExxonMobil with the Signum Oil Analysis. It was showing very heavy fuel dilution. Even with turning things back, leaning it out, going hotter on the spark plugs. They were 1050 Sterlings. Sterlings engines ran very cold and never showed any water or oil pressure. We called him, the new boat owner called him and he said that's how they run, maybe that has something to do with it??? The engines were just ran over by his crew with the new owner and seem to be fine. I am not sure. I can look for the results sometime. They are not confidential since we owned the boat.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Fuel dilution was one of the problems that mobil 1 had with aircraft piston engines about ten years ago. They found that the oil could not handle the lead in the fuel. I am hoping that hydro or one of mobil 1 dealers will help with the story but this is what I can remember:

Mobil 1 was tested with a rental fleet. It was the low horsepower training airplanes that were run many hours everyday. Kinda like the las Vegas taxi cab test. The oil looked good and alot of people switch including the people who had the high horsepower turbo motors who were the weekend pilots. The daily drivers never had a problem with mobil1 but the high horsepower seldom use dirty burning motors began began to fail. The motors that closely resemble a carburetor boat motor. There were lawsuits and mobil 1 was pulled from the piston aircraft market.

The bottom line was that the mobil 1 would not absorb or scavenge the lead in the fuel and lead sludge would build up around the rings causing engine problems. The 50 weight dino oil would absorb the fuel and carry the dirt back to the filter and the gas would burn off. Dino oil can have a lot of stuff in it and still lubricate well. Ask a amsoil dealer about adding any additives to their oil and they will tell you not to. They are afraid that the additive might break down the delicate chemistry of their oil.

There are some good things with synthetic oil. hydro recommended the valovine oil treatment. I put a bottle in with my 30 and 40 weight dino oil. Zddp is good stuff. Amsoil use to be number 1 with zddp and this is why many of their oils will not meet the api spec. Too much zppd with hurt the cat converter. I also think that the zppd will disappears quickly in oil like the zincs on your boat. This is why amsoil requires you change the filter and add a quart every six months. The additives in the new quart really do more good than changing the filter. They just do not want you to know that their oil needs to refreshed every six months.


Hydro is also right that the new oils are being reformulated for epa standards and will not protect your engines as well.

A lot of the newer motors with the roller cam's and fuel injection can get by with the newer thinner oils. I always thought the new corvettes had mobil 1 because chev did not put an oil cooler in. It was cheaper to change the oil than add a oil cooler.

I think the best choice depends on your motor and how you use your boat. I would like to hear more from people who take oil samples. I have thought about doing it.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Fly fast, fuel dilution was why I got away from MB1 and Amsoil. I had some analysises done and at 30 hours I had too much fuel in oil. Carb 500 type motors. Decided to go to Val racing and dump it at 25 hours. Now have blowers and the fuel in oil thing is nuts.

Does anyone know what MB1's Zinc Mass% is? They do not show any Zinc in their "typical properties" report off their site. :(

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

On Saturday, I mailed a 20 hour sample of Kendall 20W50 to Blackstone Labs for analysis. I'll post results as soon as I get 'em. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Bglz42, that should be interesting. It is with the new formulation (Conoco) I would presume.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Thank's Hydro,
Very Good Data. :d

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

As a Mobil 1 dealer I have never heard that story. Mobil has had an aviation synthetic lubricant for over 20 years. The engine oil has been for turbine driven engines though. The first generation of synthetics was call Mobil Jet Oil 254. The second generation of jet lubricants was and is called Mobil Jet Oil II. Both are great products and I have never seen any problems. We have some govt contracts that use those two products plus the Mobil HF and HFA which are low temp. hydraulic fluids. I have never heard of this Mobil 1 story. I can do some research to see what happened.. Do you know about when this happened??

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Yes, Bob it is the ConocoPhilips formulation.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

This is a dumb but true answer.

Everytime I am at a boat race I see the guys out there racing using a 50-60 wt oil...synthetic or conventional...I figure they know what they are doing. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

If you have a blower and have fresh oil and it smells like gasoline...some guys just change oil filters...does this work>?


It probably depends on the amount boost you are running I would imagine. High compression engines also accumulate gas in the oil...it's mostly from 'blow-by".

Gas and water from reversion in the oil are scary things. Would be nice to have a sensor and gauge that detects this quickly.


Play big and pay big I guess.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I think they may have left the original stuff from Kendall alone..it was just an acquisition....do you guys have any info?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

You are welcome.

One of the things here is to try to get us more focused. To run a few oil analysis runs from time to time and post it.

One additional thing about synthetics...they are much less volatiles than conventional oil....they don't "boil down"...viscosity retention is important.


We want to see those TBN numbers from the analysis to see if the oil is thinning or thickening. Neither is good.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Flyfast...

I know the early 1960's synthetic had aviation problems but I am pretty sure this has been fixed over the last 45 years. There were even corrosion problems with Cessna's cams but now synthetics have corrosion inhibitors...that may not have in the 1960's.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I saw Hydro's question about ConocoPhillips


We have a Conoco contract for Industrial lubes and Comercial Oils. Our ex-sales manager works for them. Every drums is the same product for a specific type of oil. Let's say their diesel engine oil. Same for all three brands, same drums, same everything... They either put a Union, Kendal, or Conoco label on it. You should see the distribution plant. Confusing as F@!*# :eek:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Re Conoco. Brad Penn claims they now own the original Kendall refinery and the source for the crude which they used to use to make Kendall. GT1 at 50 wt was reportedly developed for top fuel motors with a high degree of fuel dilution.

I have got 15 hours on some Brad Penn right now. I might pull a couple samples and get it done and then compare with the Conoco Kendall. Might be interesting. Probably should use Blackstone as well. Bglz42 do you happen to have a number for them? Thx.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Vandy,

1995 . Go to bobtheoilguy and look at the forum under aviation. There are some links to the articles or just do a search.

The motors that had problems were not the daily drivers. The planes that were only used once a week with the large motors. The 520 and 470 cubic inch motors. The small 320 and 360 cubic inch were ok.

My boat has a rich boat carb, I run a 140 t-stat and I am lucky to use it twice a month. Kinda of sounds like the same story.

Maybe Mobil 1 has changed alot since 1995?

Check it out.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

It's gone thru two generational changes and reformulations. I was only 14 at the time so I may not know. I can ask my folks. My dad worked for Mobil and they have owned their Mobil now ExxonMobil distributorship since 1978. I will look into that though. Mobil in 98 went to the try-synthetic, and then in 02 over to the Syper-Syn formulation. It has changed quite a bit, but still isn't for everyone.

Ok, I asked my parents.... My comments were wrong. My mom said they tried to do it for two minutes and failed miserably in 95. She said they were just too far behind the technology to the other guys and tried to catch up. They do though run the market for turbine avi. engines... You learn something every day!! My rents are encyclopedias for these stories. They have been tests for many markets b/c of the 50 year history and our honesty.. They had to ship all the product back after the program crashed..

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Not to change the subject ...but I have a question for you guys.

Why is it that mostly.. if not only.. Amsoil has "ball and scar" testing done of it's "virgin oil" on "virgin metal" and then publishes the results vs. it's competitors. They always are best in every test...they never loose a single one.

Now ball and scar tests are not "real world".....but what's the deal?

You can't win against them..ever it seems...they are an advertising machine with this stuff. :drink:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Everyone has to look the best in their tests. Does anyone remember the gimmick tests of back in the day, with the egg beaters, grease tests. I think Lubrication Engineers and some others are great for putting their products up against another that doesn't have the same application. They did that with an ExxonMobil product that had no premise in the application. They were using an XOM industiral grease for a CVL application. It was at a trade show. They were misapplying the Mobil product and saying that their's was better.. Gotta love'em all.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I look at Amsoil's "ball and scar" tests the same way I look at the Saturday morning infomercials where they drain the oil out of an engine and squirt it with a hose and the engine runs without oil for an hour...if they didn't have the water from the hose to cool the engine it would have immediately stopped.

It is that kind of crap that led me to do a year's worth of research on oil and get to the bottom of it all. The information is all on this thread for all to see.

It bears out that Mobil is a great oil....the competitors would have you think otherwise..but Mobil is the one to beat in most cases.

Now Craig ..what do you use in your #6 dirves?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

With all of our PowerQuests' we sold them within a season or two. We used the Mercury product or Quicksilver. With our 42x, we had the boat for 18 hours b/f we sold it. When Lake Cumberland did the service we sent the Mobil 1 down. For this 46XP we are using what Merc factory filled the units with. Same goes for the tranny's. The 1075's also have a second batch of the Mercury product in them. They are now past the break in, but I am waiting to see where to take this. I have had several discussions with Scott from Mercury Racing and he talked about blends of conventional and synthetics. He did say though that the 15w50 or 20w50 with the new dry sumps wouldn't have bad blow by, we will see... With all of our other mercs, 502, 575, 454's, etc. Mobil 1 15w50 since 91.