Re: Marine Lubrication
 

REMBMER. MOBIL IS M O B I L!!!! Not mobile

Just a pet peve ;)

Besides I can back the resources up.. :drink:

www.genpet.com

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro,this is the synthetic oil I asked you about in the past,can you tell me how these specs compare to the stuff your used to seeing,I run it in everthing except my blower motor plus I sell it to my buddys,Smitty

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

The 15W-50...20W-50...Straight 40 and 50 all look good as far as the base numbers go compared to premium synthetics...got any ZDDP levels and detergent numbers for me?

What brand is it?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro,thats the "sentinel synthetic" I was asking you about a few months ago. I have never had it tested, I spoke to the engineer in florida that works there and he wouldn't tell me the zddp # but said its pretty high? They put "virgin" molybendmeum in it as a low friction additive. We tested a circle track motor that made 250 hp at the tires and around 350 ft lbs tq a few years ago on a chassis dyno and saw a 17 ft lb tq increase at peak and smaller gains up and down the peak so it must be slippery.I have also seen a few street cars that ran 14 or 15 second 1/4 mile times that picked up a tenth in 1/4 mile. I sell alot of it to local circle track guys but quit trying to sell it to everyone else because they won't pay the extra 5$ a qt over dino oil. I am curious what your take is on it,like I said earlier I run it in all my own stuff (except boat blower motor)and have been for almost 15 years. I don't run it in boat because I change it every 10-12 hours and just won't spend the coin for 18 qts of oil every 2 weeks. I can send you a qt if you want to get some tested,I'd even pay for the testing to see how it actually stacks up against the big name stuff,Smitty

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Sounds like they are making premium synthetic racing oils. The base stock is real good. The additives sound fine from what you are saying.

Have you ever done a 30-50 hour tear-down inspection?

What do the main bearings look like?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Everything I ever ran it in then tore down for freshening had bearings that looked like they could be re-used. We ran it in several old,tired,high mileage motors though and had great oil pressure and performance but any oil leaks they had seemed to amplify although I have had that experience with other synthetics too. I originally tried the stuff because I had built a jet boat motor with aluminum rods and ended up with BIG oil clearences and they have a 5w/60 wt that carried good oil pressure in that application.I became a dealer with a nominal buy in where I get 30% off their list price and free shipping/handling which puts it just under 6$ a qt in 24 qt cases,cheaper yet in 6 gallon pails. The stuff is real grey looking out of the bottle and messy/clingy,you have to let a motor sit for a while after running it to get a accurate dipstick reading. Keep up your good oil info,Smitty

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Sounds like it werks good.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Real grey looking......................probaly has a good slug of Moly. Ken

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

....good point...and too much moly is not good as it interferes with the oil's detergency and makes it too slick...I would do an oil analysis and see what is in there...it may be fine and it may not be...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

...was asked what oil do I think is best for a Christmas tree color rotor's bearings from the 60's....here ya go :drink:
...this fellow is using an aluminum tree... :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

How long to warm up an engine?

I did some research and some feel excess fuel dilution and more water in oil is the result of excess idling.

SO ...excessive idling is NOT a good thing..

..agree with this?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

no big deal in something w/o a cat. would rather have the thing idle too much than not enough!

the big exception to this is if you run w/o a t-stat!

if we are talking about a vehicle, your automatic transmission will appreciate a good warm up more so than your engine will!

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

:evilb: PENNZOIL GT PERFORMANCE RACING 25W50 - 50 WT.....Performance applications. We have never had a bottom end failure. ever. With proper oil clearence and PSI this stuff works great. No Synthetics. :D

Dean Gellner
Gellner Engineering Marine Power

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Very similiar composition to Kendall GT-1...lots of the right additives...it would be the very best choice....probably the top conventional oil pick...

....if "premium" synthetic based oils were not around as they hold up to heat better and have more film-strength...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Dean, what oil change interval do you use? 20-25 hours?

Jim

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I have my supercharged customers change oil ever 10 hours. Grant it these guys run them HARD! N/A applications the same when run to the dash board. Normal usage 20 - 25 hours would be fine.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Racing with big blown power...even with a premium synthetic...10 hrs is right...too much gasloine in the oil to chance going out further. The guys at Sterling told me that.

You need an oil that mixes with gas and keeps down a good film to survive for long under these conditions.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Noing nothing about blowers, I have heard that before but it never made sense to me. If they are running that rich that they are diluting the oil, why arent the rings and cylinder walls being destroyed from lack of lubrication? Everybody knows you cant run with that much unburnt fuel in there because it washes down the cylinder walls. Well??

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Gas and oil mix and you do get lubricity...when you hit 5% gas or nitro-methane you are heading for trouble..so I am told...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

So its a myth that running rich will wipe out your cylinder walls. No gas in the oil rich that is.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

What do you figure is the best oil to keep flat tappet cams alive? Im not talking break-in. These are already seasoned but Ive heard the latest formulation dont have what it takes to keep the flat tappets alive. The suggestion was to run the GM EOS mixed in with the oil, all the time?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Engine oils, roller cams, flat tappet cams:

Have you heard of a flat tappet cam flattening lobes lately? Why do we seem to be hearing about this more and more?

Here's part of what has happened; The S rated automotive engine oils have gone through a severe reduction in the zinc and phosphorus levels needed for flat tappet cams. The reason for the reduction is zinc and phosphorus poisoned catalytic converters, and the change from flat tappet cams to hydraulic roller cams rendered the anti scuff properties of high levels of zinc and phosphorus less a priority in "daily drivers". Simply put, hydraulic roller cams do not need the zinc and phosphorus flat tappet cams needed.

So what is a flat tappet cam gear head to do?

Well there are a number of options.


-Use C rated heavy duty diesel engine oils, many of these still have high levels of the zinc and phosphorus flat tappet cams need. Some use a a diesel oil for break-in and the last few years it's been Shell Rotella T 15W-40 with a ZDDP additive.

-Use an anti scuff additive like Valvoline SynPower in the gold bottle(at about 1oz per quart)or GM EOS to reach the level of zinc and phosphorus flat tappet cams need.

-Use a good racing synthetic like Amsoil 20W-50 Series 2000 or M-1 20W-50 V-Twin.

-Use a good synthetic diesel engine oil like Amsoil 15W-40 Marine oil. This oil has the added benefit of increased rust protection which is ideal for engines that don't get run regularly and/or get stored.

-Convert to hydraulic or solid roller tappets.

Other parts in an offshore engine need more ZDDP as well such as the main bearings...so that the summation going forward. The amount of ZDDP matters a lot more than many ever knew...


Sound about right? :drink:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

some of it.

how long is long?...mobil 1 will work just fine on that flat tappet.

'they' (you know who they are!LOL)say syn's are too slippery to allow the them to rotate on the lobe/in the bore...if that was true then why would they wear at all??? ...they wouldn't! not buy'n it at all....if this was true then why wouldn't it do the same thing in a overhead cam shim and bucket application in todays hi-perf motorcycle engines.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Running Rich especially on a brand new engine will do alot of damage. When a EFI or carb is set up a the rich side it washes the cylinders of oil. Wiping the face of the ring out. You can also do damage to intake guides as well. When I raun my engines on the dyno I lean out the fuel during break in process. Then richen it back up to make power tests. Richness will do as much or more damage then being lean. The proper tune up is critcal.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Gasoline in oil especially in blower rigs where you get blowby...is the fastest way to toast an engine...more than 5% gas and your engine is cooked. That's 8 ounces in 5 qts...your upper engine will go first...it happens much more frequently than one would think...running a bit lean is not a bad way to go. That's why some change every 10 hours if running hard..

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Your contradicting yourself. These big blower motor run so rich as to have to change oil every 10 hrs due to fuel dilution but their not hurting their engines? Please explain, just trying to learn.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

IN a non-blower motor running rich can containate oil faster than many realize. In a blower motor the blow-by will put gas in the oil no matter if you run rich or lean...that's from the Sterling guys..

Sorry if I was unclear..

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Happy New Year! ...near 10,000 hits... :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

40 more to go!! :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hey we need 40 more hits in the next 50 minutes..can we do it?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hmmmm. I guess I need to drink more to understand that one.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

..that is what I am told..not through experience if that helps..

...Hey we hit 10,000 HITS!!

Happy New Year 2006!

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Use a good motorcycle engine lubricant. Spectro oil make petroleum, syn/petroleum blends, and full synthetics with high z & p numbersin a whole bunch of different viscosities. Using any of them your flat tappets will be fine. Ken

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Synthetic 20W-50 "motorcycle labeled" oils are the best offshore engine oils ..period.. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

If you do not want to use GM's EOS and are using non-racing oil ..not too high in ZDDP and moly...Torco has a "break-in" lube you can add...it is loaded with moly and zddp. A builder in my area uses it for assembly...but you can add it in too.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

www.joegibbsracingoil.com.then click "products"

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

That stuff is high in zddp and moly..especially the synthetics...

...Also found out the Flat Tappet guys like Redline 20W-50 for that reason as well...tons of moly and zddp

AFter a couple years of being in the oil business my conclusion is the racing guys use a good base and lots of anti-wear additives...ZDDP and Moly are the ones that work...most of the rest are snake oil...Teflon...graphite...are worthless or destructive...Zinc..Phosphorous and Moly rule..and throw in sulphur for the drive as well....plus good detergents and good anti-corrosion agents for the marine environment...!!

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydrocruiser I figured you might want to see this.I just tore down my motors for the winter and cut open the filters to see whats in them .This is the inside of a Wix eqivilant to the Fram HP6 which Sells thru Napa as a 1222R Napa/Wix racing filter.I measured the paper element stretched out it was 7.10 foot long.You can see the by pass and the spring that holds the cartridge in place .It kinda looks like a valve spring :eek:

What ya think?


Rob :drink:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I am impressed...now that's how a filter should be made right?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I would think the Fram HP 6 is made close to the same way?