Re: Marine Lubrication
 

You guys have more offshore boats than I have shirts. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

12 boats in 16 years and I have skippered them all and I am only 24 :eek: :eek: :eek: :drink:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

That's a record...you found a good sport...I wonder why they call it the sport of kings? :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

:rolleyes: I wonder?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Just look at the oil analysis data and iron ppm...shows
Mobil-1 in this engine is responsible for practically no cylinder wall wear....there is more iron on your face after shaving than wear in the oil sample tested.. ;)

...also note that this 5W-30 Mobil-1 held up very very well out to 18,000 miles...what does that mean? This oil did not break down due to heat and shear...it could easilly be used to 18,000 miles with 5,000 interval filter changes and a topping off....really a filter change is a 5 minute job...plus a half qt of oil...

...keep buying 5W-30 for your car..it werks and it is priced right and easy to get :D

It's so good I am even trying to convince Craig to start to use it. :drink:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Im switching fom Pennzoil 40 wt. to Mbl1 VT 20/50 , what do you think will happen to my oil pressure and temp in my stock Merc 6.2

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Probably a little higher oil pressure..little lower oil temps is what we are hearing.

What oil filter will you use?

Let us know the actual numbers after you switch...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I have a Merc and a Amsoil fltrs which one do you suggest , I believe the amsoil filters better.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

If it's the Mercury HP or Racing filter...it is about equal to the Mobil-1 in trapping and flow. If you have the other mercury filter it flows very well but traps low.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

It's been quiet...any questions for me to check out? :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Stingray69 had a question about the whole Goldcap thing and additives that was going around on various formus a month ago. So I pasted it here to try to keep all the oil stuff in one place for one stop shopping. ;)



The market for "extended mileage synthetic oil" was previously a niche' market that belonged to some smaller oil blenders. Mobil showed up with Goldcap Extended and there was a lot of bashing of it in several forums without any substantiation it turns out. Blenders worried their marketshare would be erroded. My best guess is much of the mud slinging was and continues to be from distributors of the other brands hiding under various screennames. I was concerned back then for everybody. I indicted I was "passing on information"...etc.

I obtained a sample analysis of Goldcap and it is of a better TBN (type of base) than Redcap was and it has more boron and ZDDP in it with about the same moly levels as Redcap. So in plain English...test results prove Mobil has a very good new product and much information on other forums is misleading at best. This can happen anytime a new product comes out.
Redcap was "Classic Coke"....Goldcap from the test results is "Classic Coke Extended"...just has more additives to last longer. There is a growing trend to change oil less frequently and Mobil needs to be a part of it.

From this test the only conclusion one can draw is that Goldcap is the same or better than Redcap...probably better and time will prove this I think.

Now V-Twin is 30% better than redcap in it's ability to hold up to heat and shear. The question is..do you need or want to spend the extra money for it? If you have a hopped up engine you should consider doing so ...if not it's just added insurance.

We now have a very comprehensive thread here entitled "Marine Lubrication". It pulled a million different lube threads into one...so let's try to use just that one.

I have learned recently that the overuse of additives can damage the oil's detergency. Goldcap turns out not to need any additives like other's once felt was needed. They are wrong about that and the test proves it.

Both Goldcap and V-Twin are available at Walmart.

It would be nice if oso might consider starting a lubrication "room" and moving the "Marine Lube" thread over as a way of launching it. Just a suggestion....we could call it the "Oil Pit"...anyone wanna PM OSO and ask ?? :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro,
what about mobil 1 10-30 for my Yukon?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I saw where Mobil-1 5W-30 held it's viscosity and kept engine wear very low out to 18,000 miles. 10W-30 regular and extended are showing good virgin test results. I personally use a lot of 10W-30 M-1 in my cars. Good stuff.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I have used amsoil 0w-30 in my f 150 for 95k, no problems, gas milege is still the same as the day i brought it home.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

It has a good TBN....uses a lot of calcium (4000+ ppm) and ZDDP is pretty high...no moly or boron...$9.00/qt

Great oil @ "0-W" for very cold areas otherwise the
Series 3000 5W-30 is considered by most as their very best oil for cars.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

You can also use Mobil 1 5w40 truck and SUV. Same as Delvac 1. I am using Mobil 1 0w30 racing right now in my 04 Caddy.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...;f=11;t=000310

6 month update of virgin oil samples.

All Mobil-1 products on here look real good.


10W-30 EP...ZDDP is fine here
5W-40 SUV...lots of ZDDP
15w-50 EP great ZDDP levels

I went through the entire list and you won't find an oil with more ZDDP than Mobil-1 V-Twin 20W-50...it's the "king of protection".

Also, 10W-40 Mobil-1 MX2T 4-cycle motorcycle synthetic oil rules in that viscosity as well as ZDDP king. Gotta be the toughest 10W-40 around.


..................................................

I noticed some Amsoil products to have moly in them...Amsoil had tons of anti-moly stuff on the web.. I wonder why the change of heart?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Mobil-1 Delvac 15W-40

This would be a nice oil for a cruiser in moderate temps.

Definately lots of anti-wear additives...great offshore oil as well add to your list of considerations if you want a 40wt.


I was asked today what I would use. My reply was:

10W-40 Mobil-1 motorcycle oil in cool-cold weather; Delvac 15W-40 would be great for small blocks and cool to warm weather...then haul out the V-Twin for the 90 degree days of summer.

How about 15W-50 Goldcap?

It's great unless you are a fanatic like me who likes overkill. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Bglz did an analysis...i am reposting this here so we keep the info in one place. Kendall GT-1 at 20 hours showed little wear.

So we know a car averaging 50mph with Mobil-1 (regular-not extended performance) 10W-30 can go 18,000 miles..hold it's TBN of 11 and have good additives to continue onward. That's 9,000 hours of oil service.

Now if you use the vehicle in towing a heavy trailer then figure you will need to change 2x as frequently so it falls to 4,500 hours or 9,000 miles.

Now if it were to be similiar to an offshore boat hauling continually you would have to drive the car at 100 mph pulling the trailer so lets figure then 4,550 mile drains or 2,250 hours on the oil.

Your samples came out great and I am not preaching to you to even so much as to consider to read this let alone change your use of GT-1.

It does suggest that we change our oil too soon when using synthetic oil and maybe 100 hours is more reasonable in stock non-hopped up/ non-blower boat engines.

Now your analysis showed a TBN of 7.2 which is good for a conventional oil. M-1 10W-30's is 11 and V-Twin's is 17. The main bearings run cooler with synthetic oils especially those with high TBN's. Sometimes bearing heat and stress does not immediately show wear in oil samples ...the bearings just seize at redline on one fine Sunday afternoon and the engine blows.

Synthetic oil has a greater film strength and protects better...not much can really measure this. We have heard major engine builders say they never saw main bearings look as good as they do with v-twin at teardown. That can not be refuted. It is what it is.

I guess synthetic oil is like faith..either you believe or you don't. I am not going to preach even though it's Sunday.

Your engine is in great shape...happy boating!

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

From Blackstone:

JIM: The sodium in your oil is either coming from antifreeze or sea water, depending on how this
engine is cooled. In either case, it probably should not be there, but at least it doesn't appear to be
hurting anything. Most wear was lower than average, and the above-average copper is a result of
lingering wear-in at bronze parts. It should improve with time. The 1.0% fuel isn't a problem at this
level. The TBN read 7.2, still lots of active additive left. Check back in 20-30 hours. Hopefully sodium will drop.



509 Marine Engine NA

Oil Kendall GT1 20w50 Dino
Oil added 1 qt
Hours on oil 20
Hours on unit 200 approx
Date 7/20/2005

Aluminum 2 6 (Universal average is second number)
Chromium 1 2
Iron 17 22
Copper 53 39
Lead 6 186
Tin 1 2
Moly 67 31
Nickel 0 0
Manganese 0 4
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 0
Potassium 2 1
Boron 11 40
Silicon 7 13
Sodium 56 16
Calcium 1941 1171
Magnesium 37 686
Phosphorous 851 791
Zinc 1016 928
Barium 0 1

SUS Vis@210C 77.4 82-95
Flashpoint F 365 385
Fuel 1% <2%
Antifreeze 0 0
Water 0 0
Insolubles 0.2 <.06

I'm very pleased with these results. Motor's wearing good, oil is holding up well. Excellent additive pack.

Jim




Originally Posted by bglz42
20 hours on my baby, period! End of story, ain't going longer...



The UOA's I just looked at on BITOG (motorcycle UOA section , they kill oil about like a boat...) shows MUCH lower TBN's than 11 & 17 (those must be virgin numbers, Hydro?).

M1 15w50 usually shows 8 or so TBN on reasonable OCI's, and V-Twin showed 9.6 TBN after 22k miles. OK, but not spectacular.

My TBN started out as 7.5, and only dropped to 7.2 after getting the crap beat out of it. FOR MY PURPOSES, this oil is working great for my engine. Just look at those lead and iron numbers...




Thanks!



Jim



Motorcycles kick out tons more heat and shear so the TBNs don't crossover to marine engine numbers. We need more UAo's.

You are doing the right thing...20 hours and out...you knew you had more but why risk it? $2.00/qt it werks and you like it...

I used to use the same stuff for 5 years back in the early 80's myself before going to Redcap and later to V-twin.

If you forget everything about V-twin just remember it is very high in ZDDP almost double that of most conventionals. Worth it just for that alone. Your oil is great but V-Twin will kick your bearing temps. down enough to get an average of 10* lower oil temps. on the gauge. That is a huge reduction in main bearing temps. I have heard stories of having to go to coolers twice the size to get that kind of heat reduction across the board.

We have not heard of any other oil used on oso so far that can reduce oil temps by 10 degrees but M-1 V-Twin...by simply doing an oil change you get tons of heat relief. That's protection.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

After this next change, I'm going to try Kendall GT1 40w. Lot's of folks running that down here. I'd like to see how it compares to the 20w50. It'll be a 20 hour test also.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I just want to clear this up. Not telling anyone they are wrong. there are two different products here. There isn't anything as Mobil 1 Delvac 15w40... There is Mobil Delvac 1 5w40 which is a heavy duty diesel engine oil. This is for diesel engines. It runs at a 0 weight at start up and people freak out b/c oil pressure drops dramatically. It's great for cold start up temps, I KNOW! It's the million mile engine oil. I have seen the blocks. The other product is DELVAC 1300 Super 15w40 which is a HDMO as well. It's an extended drain heavy duty diesel engine oil. NOT to be used in cars or gas trucks. The other Mobil 1 product is Mobil 1 5w40 truck and SUV. Secret, it's Delvac 1 in a Mobil 1 bottle. SHhhh. Don't tell anyone. They also use it in Ferrari's. Just tryin got clear up the air. Make sure you are all using the correct products.


Cheers :drink:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I'm going to try the rotella t 15w-40 in my 502mag mpi they have 260 hrs on them with k-n oil filters please tell me if this is not a good idea i live in Vancouver Canada my engine water temps 175 max don't have oil temps sensors

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I would never put a HDMO formulated for diesels... We have had people do it in cars and destroy engines...... As a person who sell's that product, I would not put my name on that recommendation...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Vandy, I've been running HDMO's (HDEO's) for over 20 years in my gas motors. Rotella, Delvac or Delo, sometimes Pennzoil Longlife. Ran several to 200k plus miles. I also use it in my old cruiser's motor with 1200 hours on it. Never had a problem, and the engines stay squeaky clean. I switched to Delvac in my wife's Trooper recently and cured the oil consumption issue that those motors all have. Formerly used about 1 qt every 2k miles. Now it uses none.

You know much more about oils than I do, but I didn't think there was anything in "diesel" oil that would hurt a gas motor?

Jim

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Wow......... We have had some problems in the past and ExxonMobil or Mobil back in the day recommended not using them, or that could of been our crotchety sales engineer who was an ass. They do though carry an SL approval on 1300 Super and Delvac 1. Which means that you can use them on your gas vehicle, all-though that's not what it formulated for or highly recommended. I guess you can even teach us in the oil biz a few things. All-though I have a lot to learn since I am only 24. We don't go around and sell the product like that though. We had some guys try and sue us and ExxonMobil b/c they put Delvac 1 in their light duty and saw a tremendous drop in oil pressure. They tried to state that we destroyed their engines last fall. If you look at the PDS for Delvac 1 and Mobil 1 5w40 they meet a lot of the same recommendations, but they market too two different groups. Helps them go to market I guess. One goes after HDMO and one goes after light trucks. If it works go for it.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

i have been doing searches on the rotella and people seem to like it in gas engines lots of fleet vehicles the ratings for gasoline engines on the back of the bottle says SHELL ROTELLA T recommended for gasoline engines API SL SJ SH i was going to use mobile1 15-50 synthetic but my mechanic said to only use a 40wt oil and its hard to get some oils up here so i need some advice.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

If that's what he recommends, then you can go with that. The benefit of Mobil 1 is that it is a full synthetic and there are benefits of longer life, better detergent dispersant's, etc. Rotella T, Delvac 1300, Delvac 1, Delo, XD-3 and I think Citgard are all API SL approved. I would recommend Mobil 1, but if he feels that's the road to go, I would try and trust the mechanic. This is unfamiliar territory for me. We have always used and recommended Mobil 1 for different aps. The HDMO for marine I would like to learn about though.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I compared many virgin oil analysis samples of gasoline and diesel engine oils. It seems many diesel engine oils have a higher magnesium (mg) level. Gasoline oils around 0-5 ppm of mg and some diesel engine oils around 500 ppm of mg.

Magnesium is a detergent and barium is what is put into diesel engine oil for "soot" control. Diesel burns dirty and some of the dirt called soot gets into the engine oil. This soot is carbon and it can form huge deposits in diesel engines quickly.

Magnesium is a detergent and is a metallo-organic compound.
It is more "abrasive" than sodium, calcium, boron and the phosphates. It is designed to "scour" and "lift" deposits from surfaces and then to keep them suspended until they get to the oil filter or until the oil is changed.

A few SUV and Truck oils also have higher levels of mg.

My best guess is that an aluminum block may not be too happy with lots of mg...but I don't know for sure. If a diesel engine needs this to prevent large build up of carbon from soot it is the lesser of two evils. A worst case scenerio is it could increase wear as well as keep the engine clean. Personally I don't see myself using diesel oil in my gasoline engine anytime soon.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

well i guess i will not use the rotella oil and go with the mobile1 15-50wt synthetic every one here seems to use it

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

You guys are in the mid 90's down in Texas with lows in the upper 70's that's 50wt season..son. :D

A review:

Adding polymers to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W) creates a multi-grade oil, which prevents oil from thinning as it warms up. The polymers allow the oil to flow like the lower number in cold temperatures, and like the higher number at higher temperatures. In other words, 20W-50 is a 20-weight oil that will not thin more than a 50-weight would at 100° C (375*F).


The question is...are you better off with Kendall 20W-50 or a 40wt?

Well with daytime temps in the mid 90's in Texas and lows in the 70's....a straight 50 is my vote. Save the 40wt for fall. Your 20W-50 sample did not shear much at all...I don't see what you might benefit from by switching and it may not protect as well.... You didn't have much wear with 20W-50 GT-1 and you liked it. You are a conventional kind of guy. :D

...now I understand that Mobil-1 V-twin is a straight wt 50..it has no polymers..but pumps like a 20W. Am I right on this Craig? :cool:

My usual .02 :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I see some diesel oils indicate on the label they are also compatible with gasoline engines. I guess you have to decide...overall I vote for not routinely using it. That's just a guess too.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I would agree. There are special detergents and soot control additives in CVL/HDMO that aren't suitable for cars. They are though SL approved incase people are in a bind. They work fine, but the are not the recommendation by myself or anyone from ExxonMobil for that matter. That is why they are split into PVL "passenger vehicle lubricants" and CVL or "commercial vehicle lubricants". Mobil 1 from what I know is considered to be a straight 50w. My only problem with the way the market, they have to have a VI improver in the oil in order to put the W on that. The same goes for the Delvac 1 5w40. They call it a 5w, but it pumps at a 0w in cold weather. Same goes for the 15w50. It will flow at a 5w in cold weather start ups. That much I do know with my little oil experience. Like I stated earlier. People have attempted to sue us over situations like this... My vote is for the Mobil 1, but if the shoe fits, you can wear it.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Cool info Craig...

So the 15W-50 Goldcap flows like a 5W.. excellent!

How how about the 20W-50 V-twin....does it flow like a 20W in cold weather?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

BGLZ42 and Craig..aka vandy....it's great to have you guys on board and sharing your knowledge and experiences.

I hope more members get involved and become as interested as you guys are. I am doing a few oil analysis samples from friend's boats as well. One has a 40ft SeaRay and another has a 42' Fountain with 525's. I will have to find out what they are using and # hours etc.

Take care!!

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hee hee, like those multi-million mile trucks that run NOTHING be HDEO! :rolleyes: Geez man, HDEO's increase wear? Come on, Hydro! My Cummins has over 210k miles on it on conventional diesel oil. Doesn't burn a drop. My old GMC gas truck has 300k miles on Rotella. Still solid as a rock when I sold it.

It's the toughest oil you can buy in a conventional. BTW, the next time you look at a VOA of an "diesel" oil, pay special attention to the phos and zddp levels...

And btw, M1 Vtwin has more Magnesium than Rotella or Delo...:D


All oils marketed as "four-stroke marine oils" are in fact HDEO diesel oils, ie Pennzoil Marine, Texaco URSA, etc. The only one that's not is Merc's 25w40.

Well Dad, let's give a try anyway. :evilb: I know too many people that use it to great effect to discard it that easily. Read my UOA again, I sheared to a high 40wt. If straights don't shear, and have a higher flashpoint (Kendall 40wt is 500) then it might just work...

Take care, Jim

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Well Jim...


I knew I was gonna take a whooping for taking that position on diesel oils. Mc Costillin was a big Rotella fan and he knew his stuff.

Why are most marine oils HDEO's what's the advantage?

Mobil-1 V Twin Virgin analysis has 13 ppm of mg while the diesel oils like Delvac have 500 ppm. V-Twin does not have any barium in it as most diesel oils do.
Would you want this diesel stuff in a new Mercedes aluminum gasoline engine?

Looks like it's 40wt then son. If I paid for the synthetic oil for your engine would you use it for free :D ?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

HDEO's are just tough stuff. I can name at least two instances where I saw immediate improvement upon switching to HDEO.


Here's a neat link, all the VOA's you can stand to read!

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...;f=11;t=000310

On another note: Hydro, I like your idea of this thread, and maybe oil's own section too. Lot's of good info to be spread around. You are respected on this forum as an oil expert. With that being said, I'll ask you to broaden your scope a bit. Everyone is not as thrilled about running VTwin as you are. Some of us like conventionals, or maybe another synthetic. You are a hell af a researcher, so educate yourself on the different oils that people are running, and the results. Let's get more folks to send in UOA samples, (it's incredibly painless and cheap!)
Let's make this section worthwhile to everyone, I think it's good stuff.

Jim

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Delvac is the exception, I don't know why they use that amount of Mag. Delo & Rotella have less than V-Twin.
Would I run HDEO in an aluminum engine?

Uh, I have one in my garage full of Rotella right now, with 90k miles on it. Do some research, Hydro. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I can ask my CVL sales engineer tomorrow if you would like an answer...... Just PM me and I will ask an ExxonMobil employee that works with myself and sales staff almost daily.