There were a few I saw at www.Bobistheoilguy.com posted under UOA's.

The iron and lead numbers on a few were higher than expected. Iron is cylinder wear and lead is from bearings.

I filled out the Redline web site's oil recommendation questionaire describimg my marine motor and usage. They recommended their 10W40 "or 15w50 if oil pressure is an issue". An interesting side comment offered was that minimum oil pressure should be 10 psi per 1000 rpm's. With 48 psi (hot) at 5800 rpm's I am falling way short of that.

Thanks!

I'd look into NEO and Torco as well as Motul. One or both use ester base-stocks last I checked.

http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/

http://www.torcousa.com/product.html

We "heard" Merc uses Torco in it's big drives...


I personally have found that mixing 50/50 M-1 EP 15W-50 with Motul 15W-50 gives outstanding wear numbers. Just pour in half of each and let the eninge mix it up. :)

Thanks Hydrocruiser for the additional options to consider. I am a little hesitant on these last two since they seem at first blush to be more oriented toward racing oils. I don't see myself in need of a pure race oil. How would one become knowledgable about their oil's performance in a marine engine that spends very little time at WOT?

With your operation considerations the best oil for you may be M-1 15W-50 Siiver Cap with 25-30 hour changes.

I think it is a GRP III/IV Blend with lots of ZDDP. Excellent stuff at $ 6.00/qt at Wally Land.

Maybe you are right.

I saw the M1 Silver Cap in Wally World today. $6.27/qt. If you want the gallon it is $26.00 or $6.50/qt. The bottle is labled "FULL SYNTHETIC". I wonder what that is the code for in the symantics of the retail oil industry ???????????

Sorry. I woke up feeling like being a little pissy today.

Bill

Are those gallons or 5 quart jugs? I thought they were 5 quart jugs.

"Full Synthetic" is not "100% Synthetic". It is a highly refined petroleum product with synthetic base stocks and additives blended into it.

Does anyone have an oil analysis of virgin 15w50 M1 Silver Cap they can share? I want to compare to virgin M1 20w50 V-Twin oil analysis thqat I have.

Mobil-1 Goldcap 15W-50

Mobil 1 15W50 EP Virgin Sample - Analysis by Oil Analyzers Inc

Al 2
Ba <1
B 298
Ca 3194
Cr <1
Cu <1
Fe 1
Pb <1
Mg 16
Mo 95
Ni <1
P 1297
Si 6
Ag <1
Na 8
Sn <1
Zn 1447
K <5
V <1
Ti <1
V100C 18.30
TBN 9.98

Mobil-1 15W-50 Silver cap:

Here's a VOA provided by CTC Analytical Services of Phoenix, AZ and reported in a recent issue of Full Throttle magazine:

Silicon: M1 15W-50: 9ppm
Boron: M1 15W-50: 228ppm
Sodium: M1 15W-50: 13ppm
Magnesium: M1 15W-50: 43ppm
Calcium: M1 15W-50: 2464ppm
Phosphorus: M1 15W-50: 1193ppm
Zinc: M1 15W-50: 1315ppm
Molybdenum: M1 15W-50: 90ppm

Motul 15W-50

left click to open file..

I have yet to see a VOA on Amsoil 15W-50.

M-1 15W-50 Goldcap/Silvercap/V-twin/RP/Motul and Redline are all tried and true in racing.

I am sure the Amsoil product is excellent as well as I use other Amsoil products that are excellent.


Lots of great choices these days!

No matter what you choose you really can't go wrong with any of these.

Torco makes excellent products as well.

Great UOA's with Penzoil Platinum. German castrol (labeled made in Germany on bottle; attainable at AutoZone) 0W-30 is a great product for your cars/trucks...as is Chevron Delvac 5W-40...just an fyi.

You have this thread running a long time so I hope you do not mind if I throw some info in. I'll give one renewablelubes.com they also do custom blends and have tested with alot of factory teams here and abroad. I don't think you can get the German castrol at Autozone anymore but when you could it tested way better than the USA Castrol. Everyone on the BTG site bought it up years ago. I have not checked to see if its back. Also BTG is filled with a ton of Amsoil guys and their oil jobbers so it can be real bias at times. When Bob ran it years ago (but sold out about 2 or 4 years ago) it was a great site but most of your great oil minds have left the site. With oil formulations keep changing what you had a year ago most likely is changed hopefully for the better but some for the worse so if your data is not current I would not use it. The EPA has a lot of say so nowadays and the expense of additives have 5 times itself in the last 3 or 4 years. Then again these companies need to make a profit like everyone else so sometimes things have to be cut out of the mix. Also Joe Gibbs Racing has a good oil yes the old football coach, Nascar owner. Redline is a good oil also and is very stable with a load of Moly as a Extreme pressure additive. here are some good conventional oils Valvoline VR1 Racing and Brad Penn Racing still more than enough zinc and phosphorus your standard anti-wear additives but they keep coming down from EPA mandates. Also 07 Dom.SS is right about most oils that are off the shelf is a Group III oil which really is not a syn. oil at all. Only group IV s and Group V s fall into syn. class. Every oil comes out of the ground and the base stocks are refined into groups and then blended with additives that are man made so oil formulations can be called somewhat synthetic. Mobil oil many years ago tried to sue Castrol oil for false adds saying full syn. and lost. so now everyone is claiming the syn. game (FYI)

Just a brief comment...

I pick an oil...one that appears to be good....run it for say 15-20 hrs...do an oil analysis...if it is good in my application I know... if not try a new product.

I have found in testing Mobil-1/Amsoil/Redline and RP.. that they all were great. Never found one to be "bad"...

The biggest mistakes I feel in choosing a synthetic or any oil... is getting the wrong viscosity for the wrong engine/climate; especially if it is cold out and the oil is too thick.

that would be correct any failures in a motor are not the brand of oil being used but how these motors are maintained, lack of maintenance, over revving and dirt - yes dirt, dirty flame arrestor/air cleaner along with detonation. these are the 4 major killers. I totally agree basically oil has done its job along with the right chosen viscosity.

Min spec for a 50 wt oil at 210 is 85 SUS. The Motul just makes this spec with 87.8.

Ken

Thanks.

What is the supposed difference again between gold and silver cap M1?

What specific Amsoil and Redline oil did you try in your application and found to be great?

What would be the coldest ambient temperature that one could still run a 20W50 like Amsoil Series 2000 race oil in a marine engine (Merc 496) with closed cooling and 120F thermostat that runs ~135F coolant temperature when warmed? The bearing cllearances are now ~0.0025" and ~0.003" mains with HV oil pump. 30F?

Hydrocruiser,

I combined your data with mine.

The Silver Cap is only a few % points less Zn and P than the first line oils listed. I guess the big difference is its base stock is not 100% syn so viscosity stabilitry and byproducts of petrolium base oil breakdown with use is the shortfall?

Thoughts?

Good question. I just ASSUMED that they were gallon jugs. I did not know there was such a thing as 5 quart jugs. TBD.

The water would freeze and 20w50 oil will pour.
The important temp is running temp of the oil and it should be over 180F.

To qualify as a 20w oil you must meet a spec in the cold cranking simulator of 9500cP (centipoise) at -15C ASTM D 5293.

If you use a 20w50 in cooler temps, just make sure it is good and warm before you start applying lots of throttle.

Actually, no matter what oil you use you should make sure it good and warm before you run hard.

Ken

Thanks.

I am adding an oil temperature thermostat (195F) and gage so that will not be a problem. I just was not sure if the initial flow through the bearing clearances during cold starts/idle would be abequate so as to not be a problem before oil is warmed. I have always idled until the engine coolant temperature is stabilized warm.

Additive wise Motul uses Mg mostly and Amsoil Ca..which is fine.

The Motul is a double ester base and they sstill say V-Twin in a Grp iv/v. The high the basestock the more resistance to shear.

The M-1 SilverCap is a great value as it is right up there and priced nicely.

The new AMSOIL 15w-50 has a cold pour point of -36F. I don't think you will be boating in temperatures like that, so that should not be too much of an issue.

My wife got me 4 jugs of silver cap for Xmas. They are 5 quarts each.

Thanks for the info. I stand corrected.

Is the significant issue with shear resistance of the basestock that of an associated parallel resistance of viscosity breakdown or is it somethiong else?

Rage, Mobil 1 V-Twin from a viscosity and additive standpoint is still heads and shoulders above the others.


Ken

Remember, boat engines are set up a little looser the their automotive counterpart and 20w50 works well in a car with tighter tolerences.

..and a 20w50 is much thinner than a SAE 30 and a whole lot thinner than a SAE 40 at 50F.

If you are using a straight weight in these "cooler" temps a 20w50 would perform just fine. Just make sure it warm before you push the sticks down.

Ken

Key in any temp, not just cool temps. I am amazed at how many of my friends idle for 2 minutes to get just out of the marina then push the sticks all the way. No way is their oil at proper temp yet.

Are you saying that Motul is saying that V-Twin in a Grp iv/v per "and they sstill say V-Twin in a Grp iv/v" or who? My understanding from your previous comments is that the V-Twin in a Grp iv. Are you saying that V-Twin has some Grp v?

Just curious.

Bill, I think "they" is Mobil and I think Mobil would be a full Group IV (PAO).

Ken

Ken,

Thanks. Just curious.

Max Oil Temperature
 

Probably more suitable as a seperate post but all the oil guys are here so just once. What is the max oil temperature that the high end (PAO) oils can repeatedly tolereate during extended WOT runs?

Bill, it is going to be hot, real hot. Over 375 F I would guess, but I am probably on the low side.

Heat oxidizes oil quickly. If my memory serves me correctly, for every 10 degrees over 300 the oil's life is halved, or something like that.

In a particular application (dwarf cars come to mind) I have seen tattletale oil temp gauges get buried at over 345 with a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. They change the oil after like 50 laps of racing so the oxidation issue isn't really an issue.

I have personally seen a engine quit running because the oil became so hot it melted the epoxy in the stator. The stator was oil cooled. Engine stopped because it lost it's spark, not because of hot oil. It was also a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. I have also seen an oil dipstick (plastic) that had melted away because the owner wanted to charge the battery by letting the engine run at a very fast idle with no means of cooling the engine. The engine was air cooled.

In both cases the oil was still fine, ok one had bits o plastic in it but the oils still provided lubrication for the engine. They did not oxidize and become a black tar like mess.

I guess what I am saying is IF you happen to run at higher than normal temps, change the oil more often, and what that interval is, I could only guess.

Of course the best scenario is not to let your oil temps get that high.

Just keep your oil temp above 180-200.

Ken

Well that is very good news. I have just installed a "700hp" oil cooler and electric oil temp gage. The engine is in the 600HP range. During a very extended WOT run the gage read 290F and still climbing but very slowly by then. A later repeat but with conditions limiting the WOT run duration to less did reach the 290F mark briefly. A quick engine shut down check of the crankcase temp with a infared temp gun showed 245F. Any idea where this WOT oil temp fits in the marine engine population?

What in the oil's performance is lost as a result of the oxidation of which you speak?

Bill