I owned one toyota truck and NEVER again. That is a story I won't get into here.
You are the one who said your truck mileage didn't meet expectations with 8 mpg. At least a gas GM 8.1L can do better than that, just slightly, and have more available power.

If you wanted better mileage you should have made a better purchasing decision; I did and it is American!

I have the 06 LBZ for the precise reason of no DPF etc. That is what keeps me from a new one.

What keeps you from buying a boat made in this millenium?

A better purchasing decsision? My trucks gets 16 mpg all day long not towing, it is a daily driver. And it will blow the doors off a chevy 5.3l

My friend has a 8.1 l chevy, and it has a lot of power, it also drinks more gas than any vehicle I have known. Your numbers are off if you think an 8.1 will pull my boat at 75-80mph over hilly terrian and do better than the 8 mpg I got.

Guess you and I were in a diffferent market when shopping for a vehicle. I wasn't shopping 6 year old trucks, a truck I had to plug in, a truck that will break and wait in a 3 week line to get fixed, a truck that takes expensive diesel fule. I needed a problem free truck as a daily driver that could still tow my boat.

Here is the test that closed me on an all around truck, this was after the Tundra squashed all the 1/2 tons, they moved on to the bigger trucks

"We also tested heavy duty pickups for the first time, and once again brought the Tundra into the equation.

Mr. Champion says, “at 10,300-pounds, the Tundra’s towing capacity rivals that of the heavy-duty diesel trucks."

You might think so too after looking at the tow rating of the Tundra versus the Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD.

In the performance, specifications, and safety data table published with CR’s story, the Silverado is shown with a max tow rating of 9,800-pounds. That figure would be correct - if the Silverado had a 353-hp / 373 pound-feet of torque 6.0-liter gas engine under its hood instead of the 365-hp / 650 pound-feet of torque 6.6-liter Duramax V8 Consumer Reports tested.

The diesel Silverado 2500 actually tows up to 13,600-pounds, or 3,100-pounds more than the Tundra. And other heavy duty pickups, like Ford's F-450, can tow more than twice as much as the Tundra.


The Tundra beat all the heavy duty diesel pickups in CR’s 0 to 60-mph acceleration tests towing the 7,400-pounds trailer. The three-quarter-ton acceleration tests appear to have similar results to what we found during our recent Heavy Duty Shootout, which was done testing one-ton diesels."

acceleration on gasser should always be more than a diesel, diesels are slow on pick up until you the turb kicks in.

I can tow 11,300 in my F150 and i can tell you that truck and many of these 1/2 tons are impressive to say the least and Ive had two diesels to compare. With that said anything over 10k-10.5k I would consider a diesel. But with new half ton technology you wouldnt catch me dead in a f250 gasser as I think they got 700-800lbs on my F150.

The silverado was a good truck in 2007 it was truck of the year, etc. That was 2007 and if you look back it did come out with a nice look and kind of brought in the era of smaller displacement pushing more power with better MPG. Those sold like hot cakes.

With that said were 5-6 years foward now and the Silverado is no longer a contendor as far as the top truck on the market in the 1/2 ton class. is it still a nice truck, yes and they get great MPG, father gets 17/23 in his.

GM's new line will be out in 2 years I think and I look forward to seeing what they put specially in the EB type arena, I really see the 5.3 leaving our graces unless they turbo it which would be one heck of a platform to tow with with although a v8 turbo would probably suck fuel so I dont see that as an option.

First, you propose, "You know nothing about cars " so I stated my credentials to establish that I do.

Then you want to change it to, "ownership" to prove what? You can be a moving target on any point you choose but that doesn't make your position any more credible.
I still maintain my product knowledge over ownership for technical understanding.


Insane you say???? Have you been to the scales with your boat on the trailer? I would come closer to believing it weighs more than your truck is rated for. If this is the case then prove qualifying criteria to call me insane. Towing over a rating is viewed as unsafe and not recommended.

The 8.1L GM truck towed a camper trailer @11,400 lbs in hilly terrain with HUGE wind shear and got 8.1 mpg. Your aerodynamic boat doesn't have the wind shear of a full height camper trailer so your ricer still had it easy for 8mpg.

Consumer Reports............. ohhhhhh puulleeeeeeeezzee. I don't accept their institutional politics and commercial agenda's and bias. When people mention them my eyes roll back in my head and my brain shuts off. I have enough technical background to see through theirs' and many others' demonstrations, comparisons etc. Don't bring up magazines and clubs for the same reasons. I am a tech guy remember.

Toyota has a marketing approach that is so limited but egotistically played. They only have two levels of truck and want to compare their two, to the domestic multi tierred levels in production. The 1/2 ton is where toyota stops but blur the line between 1/2 and 3/4 ton as if that applies. Well that fuels ego and that is all they need to sell in the highest market area of all the domestics........ the 1/2 ton. The domestics would just as soon sell the customer the next chassis level up for many reasons but toyota can't compete there so they get all they can by trying to smear the 3/4 ton category with their glorified pickup as if it is comparable.........IT IS NOT!

I understand the import madness. It usually embodies some compromise. You said, "all around truck" as one to do everything including economy as a daily driver. Well when it came to that 38 foot boat there is no doubt you should have more truck but the compromise madness took over and you got a ricer. A work beater for mileage and a tow haul truck would be better as separate vehicles but the import madness just HAS to make more out of a ricer than it really is for this to fit in one vehicle.






SOOOOOOOOOOoooooo.........what millenium ricer boat do you recommend I buy???? Both my Formula's are American.
What I have against your truck is that it is a ricer. What do you have against my "30 year old" American boats?

I have been thinking about towing both of them at the same time; I have enough truck.

GM is dragging badly in the engine upgrade dept. Ford has the dual overhead cams in their trucks now and all gassers should be dual overhead cams or the customer is getting cheated. The push rod engine needs to go the way of the Do-Do bird.

The crossover line for GM has the dual overhead cams but they need ALL of their gas to go dual overhead, direct injection and VGT's. Now there is some serious efficiency.

The reason GM didn't do this back in 1997 was because of "share holders". They loved the cash cow push rod engines so GM kept making money by not embracing the expenditures of changing production.

Are you serious? You are more out of touch than I thought.

Join us in 2012 then jump in this conversation.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business...illion-profit/

Further, you talk about jobs. As I mentioned earlier actually look up the number of US jobs at these companies then talk. To summarize:

GM 80K employees in US
Toyota 25k employees in US
All to sell the same approximate number of vehicles.....yep, those Toyota's sure are American.......

Don't even get started on the multiplier effect due to suppliers, etc which is somewhere between 5 and 7 jobs for each OEM job which makes the impact of all the foreign development by transplants that much more important.

Totally disagree here. Pushrods are a smaller, lighter more affordable package that get just as good or better fuel economy. They only fall short if displacement/hp is your metric, which is the most useless metric possible. There's a reason the SBC is continually the motor of choice for people building a car.

DOHC's have their place, but aren't the end all be all.

this is the first post, I had to go back and read what the OP wrote, my bad lol.

ckcgobigblue, good luck with whatever truck you decide.....just don't get a dodge

And you should at least drive the eco boost from ford if it is in your price range, its getting a lot of good press

There was a lot of sound engineering decisions that went into deciding what the LS motor would be. I actually read an interview with the lead engineer on that project. There actually was a lot of marketing pressure to make it an OHC platform. The LS platform is one of the most powerful engine platform ever designed pound for pound and for it's overall size. DOHC engines have a much higher center of gravity and they just move the torque curve up the rpm range. Smokey Yunich experimented with DOHC engines with Chevrolet Engineering back in the 60's and 70's and they discovered the same thing. The typical street vehicle needs low end grunt than it needs to breath at 7k+.
I am not hearing much about the 6.2L GM truck packages. A Denali is not designed for serious towing, it's designed for city driving with a utility trailer. My brother has a GMC with the MAX towing package, I'd put money on it that if your Formula wasn't strapped down he could yank the trailer out from under it. I have a modified 5.3 in my Suburban and he pulls on me like I'm stopped. I'm shopping myself for a good tow vehicle and for too many reasons to list here don't want to move up to a 3/4 ton. I have looked at Ford, Dodge and GM side by side and the GM with the MAX is by far the most powerful of the 3. Don't buy anything until you've driven one. I agree it's not the prettiest of the bunch. One thing I've learned in life is that the prettiest girl at the dance is usually the most ill mannered.